Does Hinduism acknowledge Jesus as an Avatar?

[fineguy]

Hinduism does not regard Jesus as an Avatar. Some sects like Yogananda org may be saying so in order to pull Christian converts among Hindus (most of these are converted through money power) towards them and may be they may get them back to Hindu fold eventually.

 

[George-ananda]

Are you purposely misunderstanding me?

Not purposely. I thought they were names of people. I am a simple white American with no tradition of Hinduism so your discussion was a bit over-challenging.

I'm saying that in tAntrika practice, qualities of avatAra-s are based on kalA-s (abilities) and not AkarShaNam-s (attraction), perhaps your fellow satya sai bAbA followers have different requirements, I don't know (I'm not a sai bAbA follower). Still, it's quite obvious that I'm not talking about people, silly.

Actually the discussion was over my head and beyond what I'm concerned with. Let's leave this matter at peace. Who one calls an Avatar or not an Avatar is no skin off my nose is what I'm saying. My goal is just to find peace, love and bliss.

 

[Avi1001]

Evidence suggests that the process of canonization occurred between 200 BC and 200 AD. A popular position is that the Torah was canonized circa 400 BC, the Prophets circa 200 BC, and the Writings circa 100 CE, perhaps at a hypothetical Council of Jamnia. This position, however, is increasingly criticized by modern scholars. Some scholars argue that the Jewish canon was fixed by the Hasmonean dynasty (140-37 BCE).
Tanakh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abraham was believed to live around 1,800 BCE, which puts him nearly 4,000 years ago:

Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Adam and Noah were before that.

Punkd was trying to bring out that violence was not uncommon in ancient civilizations, a fact few would dispute.

Thank you all for this discussion, it has been enlightening !

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

And Adam and Noah were before that.

Didn't Noach drink a lot? Then again, the same text admonishes him for doing so:
כ וַיָּחֶל נֹחַ, אִישׁ הָאֲדָמָה; וַיִּטַּע, כָּרֶם.
כא וַיֵּשְׁתְּ מִן-הַיַּיִן, וַיִּשְׁכָּר; וַיִּתְגַּל, בְּתוֹךְ אָהֳלֹה.
כב וַיַּרְא, חָם אֲבִי כְנַעַן, אֵת, עֶרְוַת אָבִיו; וַיַּגֵּד לִשְׁנֵי-אֶחָיו, בַּחוּץ.
כג וַיִּקַּח שֵׁם וָיֶפֶת אֶת-הַשִּׂמְלָה, וַיָּשִׂימוּ עַל-שְׁכֶם שְׁנֵיהֶם, וַיֵּלְכוּ אֲחֹרַנִּית, וַיְכַסּוּ אֵת עֶרְוַת אֲבִיהֶם; וּפְנֵיהֶם, אֲחֹרַנִּית, וְעֶרְוַת אֲבִיהֶם, לֹא רָאוּ.
כד וַיִּיקֶץ נֹחַ, מִיֵּינוֹ; וַיֵּדַע, אֵת אֲשֶׁר-עָשָׂה לוֹ בְּנוֹ הַקָּטָן.
כה וַיֹּאמֶר, אָרוּר כְּנָעַן: עֶבֶד עֲבָדִים, יִהְיֶה לְאֶחָיו.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Abraham was believed to live around 1,800 BCE, which puts him nearly 4,000 years ago:

Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is what the link said 'Bible's internal chronology' - when people lived to the age of 963 years. From the same link:

"By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".

 

[Avi1001]

Didn't Noach drink a lot? Then again, the same text admonishes him for doing so:
כ וַיָּחֶל נֹחַ, אִישׁ הָאֲדָמָה; וַיִּטַּע, כָּרֶם.
כא וַיֵּשְׁתְּ מִן-הַיַּיִן, וַיִּשְׁכָּר; וַיִּתְגַּל, בְּתוֹךְ אָהֳלֹה.
כב וַיַּרְא, חָם אֲבִי כְנַעַן, אֵת, עֶרְוַת אָבִיו; וַיַּגֵּד לִשְׁנֵי-אֶחָיו, בַּחוּץ.
כג וַיִּקַּח שֵׁם וָיֶפֶת אֶת-הַשִּׂמְלָה, וַיָּשִׂימוּ עַל-שְׁכֶם שְׁנֵיהֶם, וַיֵּלְכוּ אֲחֹרַנִּית, וַיְכַסּוּ אֵת עֶרְוַת אֲבִיהֶם; וּפְנֵיהֶם, אֲחֹרַנִּית, וְעֶרְוַת אֲבִיהֶם, לֹא רָאוּ.
כד וַיִּיקֶץ נֹחַ, מִיֵּינוֹ; וַיֵּדַע, אֵת אֲשֶׁר-עָשָׂה לוֹ בְּנוֹ הַקָּטָן.
כה וַיֹּאמֶר, אָרוּר כְּנָעַן: עֶבֶד עֲבָדִים, יִהְיֶה לְאֶחָיו.

Ok, I didn't realize there would be so much interest in Judaism here in the Hindu DIR.

There is, indeed, one famous portion of the Noah story related to excessive drinking. A good lesson for all of us to practice moderation.

It seems that you, Jaskaran, are quite interested in the Torah. You are welcome to join us in the Judaism DIR to discuss further .

 

[Avi1001]

That is what the link said 'Bible's internal chronology' - when people lives to the age of 963 years. From the same link:

"By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".

Yes, it is true, there is no archeological evidence for the early patriarchs. However, punkd was describing the timeframe in the traditional Torah context. I do not believe punkd believes anyone lived to 900 years !

And you too, Aupmanyav, are welcome to join us in the Judaism DIR if you wish to discuss Judaism further .

 

[Aupmanyav]

Thanks, Avi1001. I understand that jews are not so sold on their books, many are secular and even atheistic outlook is not frowned upon, but I think I am happy in my own forum. I never visit Christianity or Islam forums as a principle. There is nothing in other forums that can distract me from here.

 

[Stormcry]

Hinduism does not regard Jesus as an Avatar. Some sects like Yogananda org may be saying so in order to pull Christian converts among Hindus (most of these are converted through money power) towards them and may be they may get them back to Hindu fold eventually.

Exactly , Iskconians used the same tactic . .This was done only to attract christians. In reality christians can not tolerate supremacy of vishnu over christ . They want a guru who will equate vishnu and christ .

In reality , jesus was just a noble person like mahatma Gandi .He was not avatara .

 

[Vinayaka]

Ok, I didn't realize there would be so much interest in Judaism here in the Hindu DIR.

.

There isn't. One responder only. Only in the Hindu DIR do we get non-Hindus discussing non-Hindu topics. Please start a new thread. JS may join you over there.

 

[Vinayaka]

Vinayaka, thanks for starting off what has become a very interesting thread. By the way, I will admit to you that I also am not a fan of Jesus......after all I am a Jew .

Please refer to the OP. I did not start this topic. I'm totally sick of this topic. But we have duty to clear up misconceptions ... seems I haven't learned a karmic lesson somehow, because this one keeps returning.

 

[Maya3]

I agree, lets not discuss the Bible, Torah or other non Hindu topics here. That's not what this thread started as.

As for if Jesus is an avatar and part of Hindu teachings?
No he isn't. Christian theology is very, very different from Hindu teachings.

If someone likes Jesus, that is fine. Whatever brings someone closer to Self Realization is good for that person.
SRF IS a mix of Christianity and Hinduism. It can be misleading because it could give the impression that Jesus is part of Hinduism.

A lot of people like SRF who have an Abrahamic background and that is fine, just please know that it is not a Hindu fellowship, but a Hindu/Christian fellowship.

Maya

 

[George-ananda]

Didn't Noach drink a lot? Then again, the same text admonishes him for doing so:
כ וַיָּחֶל נֹחַ, אִישׁ הָאֲדָמָה; וַיִּטַּע, כָּרֶם.
כא וַיֵּשְׁתְּ מִן-הַיַּיִן, וַיִּשְׁכָּר; וַיִּתְגַּל, בְּתוֹךְ אָהֳלֹה.
כב וַיַּרְא, חָם אֲבִי כְנַעַן, אֵת, עֶרְוַת אָבִיו; וַיַּגֵּד לִשְׁנֵי-אֶחָיו, בַּחוּץ.
כג וַיִּקַּח שֵׁם וָיֶפֶת אֶת-הַשִּׂמְלָה, וַיָּשִׂימוּ עַל-שְׁכֶם שְׁנֵיהֶם, וַיֵּלְכוּ אֲחֹרַנִּית, וַיְכַסּוּ אֵת עֶרְוַת אֲבִיהֶם; וּפְנֵיהֶם, אֲחֹרַנִּית, וְעֶרְוַת אֲבִיהֶם, לֹא רָאוּ.
כד וַיִּיקֶץ נֹחַ, מִיֵּינוֹ; וַיֵּדַע, אֵת אֲשֶׁר-עָשָׂה לוֹ בְּנוֹ הַקָּטָן.
כה וַיֹּאמֶר, אָרוּר כְּנָעַן: עֶבֶד עֲבָדִים, יִהְיֶה לְאֶחָיו.

Just curious about you Jaskaran. Can you read the text above as well as the Sanskrit text you posted earlier. It's all Greek to me (LOL). When I discuss with people here I get this powerful urge to want to know their background, nationality and ethnicity; if you would indulge me.

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

Just curious about you Jaskaran. Can you read the text above as well as the Sanskrit text you posted earlier. It's all Greek to me (LOL). When I discuss with people here I get this powerful urge to want to know their background, nationality and ethnicity; if you would indulge me.

saMskR^itam is relatively easy for me, so I can read most the rAmAyaNam without having to consult a dictionary (memorizing it, however, would be annoying and time consuming... it took me almost a month to memorize the viShNu sahasranAmam, lol). In regards to the torah text, I'm not that good at Ivrit/hebrew nor can I speak it fluently, but I can get the general gist of it (e.g. in the first sentence "vaiyachel noach ish ha'aadamah vaiyitta kaarem," I can tell that noach is growing some vineyard on the ground/earth even though I don't know what one of the words [vaiyachel] means). In regard to your second question, by nationality I'm Pakistani (actually, I'm an American citizen, but I was born in Pakistan and lived there for most of my life) and ethnically I'm Punjabi; I thought you knew that?

 

[LuisDantas]

Anyone willing to help me in this project?

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...859-would-you-like-contribute-text-about.html

 

[punkdbass]

I can tell you what I believe and what was said by Satya Sai Baba who is the authority I most respect.

Buddha and Jesus are often referred to as Avatars as a means of respect. However this is not technically true. There are a list of attributes that a true Avatar has. For example Buddha and Jesus learned through their lives. An Avatar is born omniscient (though at times He may play the role of a human so mankind can feel a kinship with the Lord).

There are 16 qualities of an Avatar. Here is a link to the Sanskrit names of the 16 qualities (and how the author believes they apply to the Satya Sai Baba who he believes to be an Avatar; I'm not proselytizing for anyone but this is the only clear list I can find).

16 attributes of an Avatar

Was Krishna born omniscient? I thought I remember reading somewhere that he was a bit more confused or "cowardly?" as a youth.. just curious.

 

[George-ananda]

saMskR^itam is relatively easy for me, so I can read most the rAmAyaNam without having to consult a dictionary (memorizing it, however, would be annoying and time consuming... it took me almost a month to memorize the viShNu sahasranAmam, lol). In regards to the torah text, I'm not that good at Ivrit/hebrew nor can I speak it fluently, but I can get the general gist of it (e.g. in the first sentence "vaiyachel noach ish ha'aadamah vaiyitta kaarem," I can tell that noach is growing some vineyard on the ground/earth even though I don't know what one of the words [vaiyachel] means). In regard to your second question, by nationality

Thank you for answering. Sanskrit I can see, but the Hebrew surprises me Are you a scholar of some sort?

I'm Pakistani (actually, I'm an American citizen, but I was born in Pakistan and lived there for most of my life) and ethnically I'm Punjabi;
I thought you knew that?

Why would you think I would know that??

The Singhs I do know are Sikh so that was my very dubious guess.

 

[George-ananda]

Was Krishna born omniscient? I thought I remember reading somewhere that he was a bit more confused or "cowardly?" as a youth.. just curious.

I'm a westerner that gets lost in the maze of different details, terms and often hears different things from experts.

My take (for what it's worth) is Krishna was a full-blown Avatar and omniscient. I don't know about the 'confused or cowardly' youth stories but Avatars will play roles in the divine drama but their reality is beyond the actor.

 

[punkdbass]

I'm a westerner that gets lost in the maze of different details, terms and often hears different things from experts.

My take (for what it's worth) is Krishna was a full-blown Avatar and omniscient. I don't know about the 'confused or cowardly' youth stories but Avatars will play roles in the divine drama but their reality is beyond the actor.

Ah I see, I'm not questioning Krishna's "authority" if you will, I absolutely love the Bhagavad Gita... I was merely curious, but not curious enough to go look it up lol what you said makes sense to me.

 

[Maya3]

I was curious and I went to the SRF website and looked. This is what it says on their "Aims and Ideals page"

To reveal the complete harmony and basic oneness of original Christianity as taught by Jesus Christ and original Yoga as taught by Bhagavan Krishna; and to show that these principles of truth are the common scientific foundation of all true religions.

It seems pretty clear what their beliefs are.

Maya