Does Hinduism acknowledge Jesus as an Avatar?

[punkdbass]

I was curious and I went to the SRF website and looked. This is what it says on their "Aims and Ideals page"



It seems pretty clear what their beliefs are.

Maya

Yep, I had actually just posted this same quote as well as some additional thoughts in the new thread Luis set up

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

Was Krishna born omniscient? I thought I remember reading somewhere that he was a bit more confused or "cowardly?" as a youth.. just curious.

Really, it appears to me that it's part of his lIlA, see here.

 

[Maya3]

Yep, I had actually just posted this same quote as well as some additional thoughts in the new thread Luis set up

Ah, good friends think alike.

Maya

 

[Windwalker]

I guess my point is that lots of people try to consolidate or find resolutions to faith based conflicts by saying, "Hey Look! We're really all the same!" But I think that's misleading and it doesn't help (unless you actually believe it - which a lot of the world doesn't). Why do we have to be the same before we can respect each other? Can't we achnowledge the ways in which we are different without killing each other?

:camp:

Beleiving in oneness does not bring peace and unity. Experiencing it does. So what needs to happen is not just assent to it with the mind, but move upon that into realizing it in your being. Through that and that alone then, can you see the other as yourself, and there is peace.

 

[Poeticus]

Well there are a couple of names that come to mind, one is Maharishi Swami Dayananda Saraswati in his Satyarth Prakasha (the light of truth, has studied the OT and NT from memory) and concluded not only that Jesus is not and Avtar but that Christianity is a false religion, and there is critical study by H. H. Chattambi Swamikal in his Kristumata-Chedanam and in his chapter on "life of Christ", the first sentence is " We shall now demonstrate that Jesus Christ also does not possess divinity at all".

OP,

I believe the honorable member Satyamevajayanti has provided wonderful, and scholarly, as well as "Hindu"-theological, recommendations regarding this topic. Are you aware of this post by Satyamevajayanti? It's probably the only post in this thread that answered your main question, which was about not receiving views of us poor lay-Hindus, but instead being provided with recommendations or listings of actual scholarly, or theological, works by Hindus of various sectarian backgrounds on how they feel scriptural-ly, mystically, spiritually, and religiously about the subject matter expressed in your OP.

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

OP,

I believe the honorable member Satyamevajayanti has provided wonderful, and scholarly, as well as "Hindu"-theological, recommendations regarding this topic. Are you aware of this post by Satyamevajayanti? It's probably the only post in this thread that answered your main question, which was about not receiving views of us poor lay-Hindus, but instead being provided with recommendations or listings of actual scholarly, or theological, works by Hindus of various sectarian backgrounds on how they feel scriptural-ly, mystically, spiritually, and religiously about the subject matter expressed in your OP.

"svAmI dayAnanda"? Wasn't he the joker who attacked mahidhara and uvata for their bhAShyam on the ashvamedha? It makes sense that he would be popular among stuck-up hindutvavAdI-s. Carry on...

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

OP,

I believe the honorable member Satyamevajayanti has provided wonderful, and scholarly, as well as "Hindu"-theological, recommendations regarding this topic. Are you aware of this post by Satyamevajayanti? It's probably the only post in this thread that answered your main question, which was about not receiving views of us poor lay-Hindus, but instead being provided with recommendations or listings of actual scholarly, or theological, works by Hindus of various sectarian backgrounds on how they feel scriptural-ly, mystically, spiritually, and religiously about the subject matter expressed in your OP.

Mitra, your back?

And i did get a PM from the OP, he is busy and will get back to me, Thanks.

 

[Poeticus]

"svAmI dayAnanda"? Wasn't he the joker who attacked mahidhara and uvata for their bhAShyam on the ashvamedha? It makes sense that he would be popular among stuck-up hindutvavAdI-s. Carry on...

(emphasis mine)

What am I supposed to make of this?

Mitra, your back?

And i did get a PM from the OP, he is busy and will get back to me, Thanks.

That's awesome. I hope Punk'd can find access to the works/books you listed out. I only pointed out your post because it was one of the only posts in this thread that answered the main question Mr. Punk'd asked in his OP, and I believe it may have gotten overlooked or may have gone unnoticed. So, I wanted to bring it back into the limelight.

 

[punkdbass]

OP,

I believe the honorable member Satyamevajayanti has provided wonderful, and scholarly, as well as "Hindu"-theological, recommendations regarding this topic. Are you aware of this post by Satyamevajayanti? It's probably the only post in this thread that answered your main question, which was about not receiving views of us poor lay-Hindus, but instead being provided with recommendations or listings of actual scholarly, or theological, works by Hindus of various sectarian backgrounds on how they feel scriptural-ly, mystically, spiritually, and religiously about the subject matter expressed in your OP.

Thanks for the reminder, although I got a lot of great responses in this thread, I did notice that Satyamevajayanti's post most directly answered my questions. I am most definitely going to look into the resources he provided soon, currently I'm being slayed by "Advanced Calculus 2" homework... lol one more semester then grad school... ha

 

[Poeticus]

Thanks for the reminder, although I got a lot of great responses in this thread

I completely agree! Many have been very helpful in answering your questions in this thread. I would like to state that I find myself resonating with the posts made by veteran member, Vinayaka, the most - and I find his arguments very reasonable as they pertain to your OP.

I am most definitely going to look into the resources he provided soon, currently I'm being slayed by "Advanced Calculus 2" homework... lol one more semester then grad school... ha

Oh, brother! You don't have to tell me! I'm booked with M.B.A. courses that are getting difficult as the week goes on! But, at least you have one more semester then Graduate School! I have a few more semesters to get through - thus, am envious of your current standing . I wish you a successful path as your acquisition of knowledge continues to grow and enfolds. I agree with what Avi has stated many times, I find you to be an honest Seeker of Hindu wisdom and knowledge, and your curiosity is very admirable.

Aum & Shanti

 

[punkdbass]

I completely agree! Many have been very helpful in answering your questions in this thread. I would like to state that I find myself resonating with the posts made by veteran member, Vinayaka, the most - and I find his arguments very reasonable as they pertain to your OP.

Yeah although I don't necessarily "resonate" most with Vinayaka's answers, he has certainly helped to offer me a different perspective as well as balance my own. Although I tend to "universalistic" views when it comes to stuff like this, it's important that I keep a balance, as LuisDantes said in this thread, or maybe it was the new thread he set up - there are times where it is important and valuable to dwell upon commonalities, but there are also times where it is important and valuable to respectfully acknowledge differences.

Oh, brother! You don't have to tell me! I'm booked with M.B.A. courses that are getting difficult as the week goes on! But, at least you have one more semester then Graduate School! I have a few more semesters to get through - thus, am envious of your current standing . I wish you a successful path as your acquisition of knowledge continues to grow and enfolds. I agree with what Avi has stated many times, I find you to be an honest Seeker of Hindu wisdom and knowledge, and your curiosity is very admirable.

Aum & Shanti

Why thank you very much! I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to numbers.. haha I'm going to grad school for biostatistics and I'm pretty excited about it, still waiting to hear back from a few schools I applied too. I wish you a successful path as well! Thank you for the kind words, and hey any friend of ratikala is definitely a friend of mine

 

[Poeticus]

Yeah although I don't necessarily "resonate" most with Vinayaka's answers, he has certainly helped to offer me a different perspective as well as balance my own. Although I tend to "universalistic" views when it comes to stuff like this, it's important that I keep a balance, as LuisDantes said in this thread, or maybe it was the new thread he set up - there are times where it is important and valuable to dwell upon commonalities, but there are also times where it is important and valuable to respectfully acknowledge differences.

I think I will have to concur. There are times where it is definitely important and valuable to respectfully acknowledge differences. I think doing so is as progressive as we can get.

Why thank you very much! I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to numbers.. haha I'm going to grad school for biostatistics and I'm pretty excited about it, still waiting to hear back from a few schools I applied too. I wish you a successful path as well! Thank you for the kind words, and hey any friend of ratikala is definitely a friend of mine

Thank you for your kind words. And, biostatistics?! Phew! That's quite a doozy! But, I'm sure you will not have any problems. Good luck! :namaste

 

[Philomath]

Why thank you very much! I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to numbers.. haha I'm going to grad school for biostatistics and I'm pretty excited about it, still waiting to hear back from a few schools I applied too. I wish you a successful path as well! Thank you for the kind words, and hey any friend of ratikala is definitely a friend of mine

Biostastics? :areyoucra

I'm over here struggling with basic statistics lol

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Biostastics? :areyoucra

I'm over here struggling with basic statistics lol

There's lies, damn lies and then there's statistics.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ok, I didn't realize there would be so much interest in Judaism here in the Hindu DIR.

It seems that you, Jaskaran, are quite interested in the Torah.

There is a general interest. Judaism had connections with Zoroastrianism, which in turn has links with Hinduism through Vedas. Many of us have studied about judaism, Christianity and Islam and know at least the basics, perhaps a shade better than what most Westerners know about Hinduism and Buddhism. Jas, however, is very knowledgeable.

 

[Avi1001]

There is a general interest. Judaism had connections with Zoroastrianism, which in turn has links with Hinduism through Vedas. Many of us have studied about judaism, Christianity and Islam and know at least the basics, perhaps a shade better than what most Westerners know about Hinduism and Buddhism. Jas, however, is very knowledgeable.

This is interesting. I have studied some limited Buddhist philosophy, but less Hinduism. Punkd sparked my interest through some of the discussions he has been having recently in the Hinduism DIR.

I am going to try to expand my thinking and knowledge about Hinduism.

In my view, the heart of interfaith dialogue is learning to respect and value other faiths and traditions.

It is so easy to see the differences between religions and why so many think mine is better than yours, and here is why. But when we learn the value of others faith, and teach it to our children, then we are starting to make progress !

 

[ameyAtmA]

Punkdbass,

1. Jesus is a divinely empowered Saint and Yogi, who learned many things from the Hindu Yogis in the Himālaya between the ages of 12 and 32 [years of his which are not accounted for in the Bible].

2. The Jews view Jesus as "A good Rabbii" , this is similar to viewing Jesus as a Yogi-saint with Yoga siddhī s .

3. We can say that Jesus was a yogi saint empowered by the Divine Supreme Bramhan' to lead and teach a particular group (pātra) at a particular time/erā (kāla) in a particular nation (desha). Therefore,
a) His teachings are context sensitive to a specific nation, era, people
b) He is the Son of the Father, not the Father , but had realized his oneness with the Father.

4. The great-grand-Guru of Paramhaṃsa Yogānanda viz. MahāYogī Babaji who lives for 400-500+ years till date, in an invisible state in Himālayan caves, without aging (like a 25 yr old), claimed he is in touch with Jesus among many other Yogis and Siddhas .

5. Jesus gave me darshan (vision) on Christmas Eve one year. I used to think of him while merely passing by the church of latter day saints when living out of India. He heard my thoughts and gave me darshan . It made a difference to me .

6. There is no harm in holding onto the harmless portion of Jesus' s teachings (but not Churchianity) , while being Hindu or exploring Hinduism PROVIDED one is mature enough to NOT take many things of the New Testament literally, fanatically, but merely use Jesus' s core words to link with Vedānta philosophical concepts .
[e.g. I and my father are one -- Advaita: ayam ātmā bramhan
The kingdom of God is within you --- AtmA is Bramhan ]

Was Krishna born omniscient? I thought I remember reading somewhere that he was a bit more confused or "cowardly?" as a youth.. just curious.

WHERE did you read that? Thank Ghanashyām(Kṛshṇa) you are only just curious.

Shri Kṛshṇa is a pūrṇāvatār -- i.e. is complete, 100% Nārāyaṇ - The Supreme Lord Himself , who is omniscient omnipotent omnipresent, Who comes in human form .
Even among all authentic and listed direct avatārs of Nārāyaṇ (Vishṇ&#363, Shri Kṛshṇa is the fullest , most complete . He is unborn, and eternal .

He was not born conventionally . The Lord manifested Himself, and covered Himself with māyā and leelā so that non-believers will think He is ordinary . Also, He knew His divinity and manifested it almost since birth (destroyed Pūtn&#257 , at 3 months (destroyed shatkāsur) , at 1 yr (destroyed tṛṇāvarta) ... and continued to destroy all such evil forces and protect the good, while spreading Love, knowledge of AtmA, and mesmerising all .


There are many un-Vedic un-Hindu sources more than willing to write rubbish about Kṛshṇa (I am not saying you have posted anything like that) . Please do not go to such sources . Go to authentic Hindu, Vedic sources , like Jaskaran has given - Shrimad Bhāgvatam Canto 10 .

Read the Bhagvad Gitā to know Who Kṛshṇa really is .


om namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

 

[punkdbass]

Namaste ameyAtmA,

I can relate very well to the points you have given, especially point number 6. Also, I am currently studying the Bhagavad Gita and absolutely love it thus far. As for reading somewhere that "Krishna" was originally a coward, I remember the source now!! And upon re-reading it, I mistaking read "Coward" when the actual text was explaining that Krishna was a "cowherd" in his early days (i.e. he herded cows)... how embarassing of me

But on the subject of Krishna being born perfect.. I think the following quote from Yogananda's Man's Eternal Quest is relevant and thought-provoking:

A Christ and Krishna created perfect by God, without any effort of self-evolution on their part, and merely pretending to struggle and overcome their trials on earth, could not be examples for suffering humans to follow. the fact that the great ones too were once such mortals but overcame, makes them pillars of strength and inspiration for stumbling mankind. when we know that divine avatars, in order to make themselves perfect, once had to go through the same kinds of human trials and experiences that we do, it gives us hope in our own struggle.

I guess you could interpret this primarily in 2 ways: 1) Avatars like Krishna did struggle with temptation and desire, and put effort into self-evolution during his life as Krishna, i.e. during the stories of Krishna that we have. Or 2) using the law of Reincarnation, Krishna struggled with many temptations, desires, suffering, etc in past lives... similar to the struggles we all face today - but through effort in self-evolution, Krishna conquered these struggles in past lives to the point where he was one day completely free and one with God, and after achieving that state, he eventually was born into Earth as the Krishna we know about, and was literally perfect at birth.

Even Alan Watts admits it is possible to be born perfect, i.e. completely Self-Realized and one with God as a baby... and I too believe it is possible, although I used to be very "averse" to such ideas of "divine" beings, but now I understand that such divine beings were really beings who 100% maximized their own humanity.. hence their lives/stories can be helpful to us as humans the following quote is brought to my mind... "To be divine is to fully maximize your own humanity."

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Maybe God looked at the world and at each region and said "you know what would be funny? If I told them two different things."

 

[Windwalker]

Namaste ameyAtmA,

I can relate very well to the points you have given, especially point number 6. Also, I am currently studying the Bhagavad Gita and absolutely love it thus far. As for reading somewhere that "Krishna" was originally a coward, I remember the source now!! And upon re-reading it, I mistaking read "Coward" when the actual text was explaining that Krishna was a "cowherd" in his early days (i.e. he herded cows)... how embarassing of me

But on the subject of Krishna being born perfect.. I think the following quote from Yogananda's Man's Eternal Quest is relevant and thought-provoking:



I guess you could interpret this primarily in 2 ways: 1) Avatars like Krishna did struggle with temptation and desire, and put effort into self-evolution during his life as Krishna, i.e. during the stories of Krishna that we have. Or 2) using the law of Reincarnation, Krishna struggled with many temptations, desires, suffering, etc in past lives... similar to the struggles we all face today - but through effort in self-evolution, Krishna conquered these struggles in past lives to the point where he was one day completely free and one with God, and after achieving that state, he eventually was born into Earth as the Krishna we know about, and was literally perfect at birth.

Even Alan Watts admits it is possible to be born perfect, i.e. completely Self-Realized and one with God as a baby... and I too believe it is possible, although I used to be very "averse" to such ideas of "divine" beings, but now I understand that such divine beings were really beings who 100% maximized their own humanity.. hence their lives/stories can be helpful to us as humans the following quote is brought to my mind... "To be divine is to fully maximize your own humanity."

Compare that with this. "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin.". Hebrews 4:15

It seems to me this understanding of each religion's religious figures is shared by them mutually. And each culture creates a mythology about them as perfect children, born fully aware of their own divinity without need for growth. Buddha had lotus blossoms flower in his footsteps as a toddler; Jesus breathed life into a dove made of clay which then flew away, etc.

But it is my belief that these individuals had a strong knowledge of their divine nature, which is shared in all of us, but were particularly attuned to and responsive to that within themselves to overcome skillfully the temptations of distraction which plague us all. "Yet, without sin" (or falling short of the mark as the word sin means). The stories of not having to grow and overcome are created by us to elevate them as supernatural for us to look up to, to reach out to in our own quest to overcome and realize Self as they. At a certain point, as I say for example, "It is better to call Jesus brother, than Lord". That's the goal. To become Christ. To be Atman. They are us, and we are them, as we realize who we truly are.