Does it exist before science....

[Spirit of Light]

Does something exist before science discover it?

Is it impossible that something that seems invisible do not exist because science has not discovered it yet?

What if something, is impossible to exist if science have not yet discovered it?

 

[exchemist]

Does something exist before science discover it?

Is it impossible that something that seems invisible do not exist because science has not yet discovered it yet?

What if something, is impossible to exist if science have not yet discovered it?

All science does is observe nature and make models to account for the observations which can predict what further observations can be expected. (Prediction is crucial, as that is how models are tested.)

There are old philosophical arguments about whether things exist when they are not observed. In my view any scientist has to believe there is an objective reality to model, that exists whether observed or not. But the models we build in science cannot claim to be the reality, just approximations to it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

All science does is observe nature and make models to account for the observations which can predict what further observations can be expected. (Prediction is crucial, as that is how models are tested.)

There are old philosophical arguments about whether things exist when they are not observed. In my view any scientist has to believe there is an objective reality to model, that exists whether observed or not. But the models we build in science cannot claim to be the reality, just approximations to it.

So if someone says "it can not exist because science has not found evidence for it" they are actually incorrect, because something can exist but not be detectable for science.

 

[Altfish]

Does something exist before science discover it?

Is it impossible that something that seems invisible do not exist because science has not discovered it yet?

What if something, is impossible to exist if science have not yet discovered it?

That's a question like "Does a tree falling in an uninhabited forest make a noise?"

Of course, it exists before science discovers it

 

[exchemist]

So if someone says "it can not exist because science has not found evidence for it" they are actually incorrect, because something can exist but not be detectable for science.

I agree in principle, philosophically speaking.

But in practice, in many respects we can - and do - take absence of evidence as evidence of absence (evidence, not strict proof, mark you). Unicorns are one classic example. The benefits of Brexit are another.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That's a question like "Does a tree falling in an uninhabited forest make a noise?"

Of course, it exists before science discovers it

So God can exist even critiques say no?

 

[exchemist]

So God can exist even critiques say no?

Nothing in science claims God does not exist. Science has nothing to say on such a question, because it is not a question about nature. What we call "science" is short for "natural science": the study and understanding of nature.

There is a philosophical worldview known as "physicalism", according to which the physical world, i.e. what can in principle be subjected to scientific observation, is the only reality there is. But you do not have to be a physicalist to do science and many scientists are religious believers of one sort or another.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Nothing in science claims God does not exist. Science has nothing to say on such a question, because it is not a question about nature. What we call "science" is short for "natural science": the study and understanding of nature.

There is a philosophical worldview known as "physicalism", according to which the physical world, i.e. what can in principle be subjected to scientific observation, is the only reality there is. But you do not have to be a physicalist to do science and many scientists are religious believers of one sort or another.

I do not disagree with you on what science is and are used for.

But a lot of discussion about Gods existence are stopped because some claim there is no evidence, then they use science to say, only the physical world exist.

But they can not know, since science has not vet discovered the realm of God. Spiritual masters have.

 

[exchemist]

I do not disagree with you on what science is and are used for.

But a lot of discussion about Gods existence are stopped because some claim there is no evidence, then they use science to say, only the physical world exist.

But they can not know, since science has not vet discovered the realm of God. Spiritual masters have.

That is sloppy thinking. There is no "yet" about it.

There is no agreed definition of what "god" means and no reproducible evidence in nature of anything called "god". So the concept of "god" is just not a scientific concept, any more than love, beauty or boredom is.

As I said before, physicalists will assert the only reality is the physical world. That is their view and it is obviously an intellectually respectable position to take. Others think there is more to what we experience as humans than this and that calls for additional concepts, one of them, for many people, being the idea of something they call"god", expressed in various ways depending on their culture.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That is sloppy thinking. There is no "yet" about it.

There is no agreed definition of what "god" means and no reproducible evidence in nature of anything called "god". So the concept of "god" is just not a scientific concept, any more than love, beauty or boredom is.

As I said before, physicalists will assert the only reality is the physical world. That is their view and it is obviously an intellectually respectable position to take. Others think there is more to what we experience as humans than this and that calls for additional concepts, one of them, for many people, being the idea of something they call"god", expressed in various ways depending on their culture.

You say something very important.
God is not a scientific concept. True, God is a spiritual concept, so skeptical people can not use science as a measure for Gods existence or not

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think a better question(s) might be: if one has a subjective experience of something that isn't objectively evident, but is subjectively evident, is it possible for that something to exist? Or should we write it off as "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" because it is not objectively evident to everyone?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think a better question(s) might be: if one has a subjective experience of something that isn't objectively evident, but is subjectively evident, is it possible for that something to exist? Or should we write it off as "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" because it is not objectively evident to everyone?

What is definition of existing?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Does something exist before science discover it?

Is it impossible that something that seems invisible do not exist because science has not discovered it yet?

What if something, is impossible to exist if science have not yet discovered it?

Does something exist before science discover it?
Absolutely. All science does is figure out how the natural world functions.

Is it impossible that something that seems invisible do not exist because science has not discovered it yet?
Again, absolutely... no one knew that radiation existed until we found a way to detect it.

What if something, is impossible to exist if science have not yet discovered it?
Certainly not. As in my example above, radiation has existed far longer than human beings have existed. We simply weren't aware of its existence until we found a way to detect it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

What is definition of existing?

For the purpose of this thread, the same definition you're using in the OP, granting it is the same as or similar to the dictionary definition.

 

[questfortruth]

What if something, is impossible to exist if science have not yet discovered it?

I see no connection.

 

[HonestJoe]

You say something very important.
God is not a scientific concept. True, God is a spiritual concept, so skeptical people can not use science as a measure for Gods existence or not

How do you know that for certain?

Science is simply a set of principles and methods for observing and understanding things. Anything that can be observed (not necessarily only by humans) is within the scope of science. And if a god has any kind of effects on the world, it is observable via those effects if nothing else. To date, none of the evidence observed has supported the existence of any specifically defined god, and many things previously attributed to god have been discovered to have mundane causes and explanations.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Does something exist before science discover it?

Is it impossible that something that seems invisible do not exist because science has not discovered it yet?

What if something, is impossible to exist if science have not yet discovered it?

Dear Seeker of White Light,

If Man were deaf, sound would only be describable as vibration.

Science is limited to Man’s understanding of what is.


Humbly,
Hermit

 

[exchemist]

You say something very important.
God is not a scientific concept. True, God is a spiritual concept, so skeptical people can not use science as a measure for Gods existence or not

Exactly. There are many things, besides the study of nature, that are important to human experience and which need non-scientific concepts and terms to describe and explain them.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I see no connection.

Some times it seems like certain people say, God can not exist because we can not see or measure Gods existence.

But does that mean God does not exist?

 

[exchemist]

How do you know that for certain?

Science is simply a set of principles and methods for observing and understanding things. Anything that can be observed (not necessarily only by humans) is within the scope of science. And if a god has any kind of effects on the world, it is observable via those effects if nothing else. To date, none of the evidence observed has supported the existence of any specifically defined god, and many things previously attributed to god have been discovered to have mundane causes and explanations.

It is obvious that "god", in most religions, is not a scientific idea for the very reasons you recite.