Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?

[Muffled]

In Orthodox Christianity it's of prime importance that Jesus is God because only as a God he could resurrect. In Orthodox Christianity Jesus is perfect man and perfect God, his human form got killed and his godly form resurrected.

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh but I do not think this argument works. God can resurrect anyone He wishes and certainly Jesus raised people from the dead who were not God.

 

[Muffled]

Nope, and it should not, even to Christians.

Jesus said he was the Hebrew Messiah, not a God, not part of a trinity, no virgin birth, etc. That stuff was added later.

SO, - not even Christians have to believe he was a trinity God, - to be Christians = followers of the Christ/Anointed One.



Nothing would happen, just as it obviously hasn't. The Jewish Messiah was to be a special HUMAN through the line of David.

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I believe you should say what the base is for this statement. I have never seen anyone say so before.

I don't believe we have to but the evidence is contrary to what you say it is.

I believe when a person says something is obvious it means he can't prove it. The evidence is to the contrary.

 

[Muffled]

Well, I'm with you when it comes to the Trinity. And no, Jesus didn't come right out and call himself "God." Personally, I find the evidence that I was, indeed, more than just "a special human" compelling enough that I choose to believe it. Since I don't believe in the Trinity, though, my understanding of both His divinity and His relationship to His Father differs from the traditional Christian one.

Why then does it matter to you? I believe it makes a difference whether a person is in harmony with what God says or not. The way Jesus put it to me is that people who hold your view have a quasi-idolatry view of God. He takes exception with those who have a dim view of Him.

 

[Katzpur]

Why then does it matter to you?

Why shouldn't it matter to me as much as it does to you, Muffled?

I believe it makes a difference whether a person is in harmony with what God says or not.

As do I.

The way Jesus put it to me is that people who hold your view have a quasi-idolatry view of God. He takes exception with those who have a dim view of Him.

Sorry, but you totally lost me there. I recognized it as an insult (I'm not so stupid that this escaped me), but I really have no clue as to what you think I believe. On one hand, you say I have a "quasi-idolatry view of God" and then you turn right around and say I have a "dim view of Him." This really makes no sense at all.

 

[Ingledsva]

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WOW, I had to go clear back to page four to find the post you refer to, for context.

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Carlita said: Does it matter if Jesus is not god?

ING - Nope, and it should not, even to Christians.

Jesus said he was the Hebrew Messiah, not a God, not part of a trinity, no virgin birth, etc. That stuff was added later.

SO, - not even Christians have to believe he was a trinity God, - to be Christians = followers of the Christ/Anointed One.

Carlita said: What would happen if Jesus was not god? If a human saved humanity from their sins? Is it possible? Why or why not?

ING - Nothing would happen, just as it obviously hasn't. The Jewish Messiah was to be a special HUMAN through the line of David.
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I believe you should say what the base is for this statement. I have never seen anyone say so before.

I give the reason it doesn't matter that he isn't God. The Jewish Messiah was to be a HUMAN through the line of David.

I don't believe we have to but the evidence is contrary to what you say it is.

No it isn't. Jesus SAYS he is the awaited Jewish Messiah. He DOES NOT say he is a God, or part of a trinity. Those were added later. Why wouldn't a special prophecized HUMAN Messiah from the Line of David - be able to do all that Jesus is "supposed" to have done?

I believe when a person says something is obvious it means he can't prove it. The evidence is to the contrary.

It is obvious because he says he was the Messiah - not a God - and here we are with nothing changed. Nothing would be different if he is Messiah - and not God.

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[syo]

Orthodox Christianity differs from Jewish Religion a lot. So Orthodox Christianity became a different religion and holds little in common with the Jewish Religion. Even the interpretations differ.

According to Orthodox Christians, all people are equal before God. This means God doesn't create superior humans to whom he grants godly powers.

 

[syo]

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh but I do not think this argument works. God can resurrect anyone He wishes and certainly Jesus raised people from the dead who were not God.

If Lazarus was God, he'd resurrect himself. Jesus resurrected himself.

 

[syo]

I agree with part of what you said, but not all of it. I agree that the Son is not the Father, and that without the Father, there could be no Son. But I definitely believe the Son has a will of His own. If He didn't, the following would make no sense: "Not my will, but thine be done."

Father is the Source of Son's "will".

 

[Muffled]

If Lazarus was God, he'd resurrect himself. Jesus resurrected himself.

I believe that but there still isn't any proof of it. There is an inference of it since no one laid hands on Jesus or prayed for Him to rise but still one could attribute that to the Father not Jesus. I believe once one is dead one is not able to think oneself alive because the mind is dead. One would have to go back to the verse where Jesus says "into thy hands I commend my spirit." to view Jesus as now a concept within the Spirit of God and therefore a participant in the resurrection however for me there is no difference in the spiritual concept of Jesus and The Spirit of God other than name only.

 

[syo]

I believe that but there still isn't any proof of it. There is an inference of it since no one laid hands on Jesus or prayed for Him to rise but still one could attribute that to the Father not Jesus. I believe once one is dead one is not able to think oneself alive because the mind is dead. One would have to go back to the verse where Jesus says "into thy hands I commend my spirit." to view Jesus as now a concept within the Spirit of God and therefore a participant in the resurrection however for me there is no difference in the spiritual concept of Jesus and The Spirit of God other than name only.

The human Jesus died. Son whose powers come from the Father resurrected human Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

Why shouldn't it matter to me as much as it does to you, Muffled?

As do I.

Sorry, but you totally lost me there. I recognized it as an insult (I'm not so stupid that this escaped me), but I really have no clue as to what you think I believe. On one hand, you say I have a "quasi-idolatry view of God" and then you turn right around and say I have a "dim view of Him." This really makes no sense at all.

I wasn't questioning whether it mattered to you but what the reason for it was.

I don't believe I would ever do that because you are too dear to me. I don't feel insulted when I having a senior moment make a wrong turn and my passenger tells me so. I just realize that I need to get on the right track.

I believe it is not what I say but what Jesus says to me about those who do not have a correct understanding of the Trinity.

I believe you might be thinking of the meaning of the word "dim" as meaning holding in less esteem but I meant not having a view in focus.

 

[Muffled]

Father is the Source of Son's "will".

I believe I would like to hear how you think that works and what verses support that view.

 

[syo]

I believe I would like to hear how you think that works and what verses support that view.

the pray to Father. matthew 6 9-13

 

[Katzpur]

I wasn't questioning whether it mattered to you but what the reason for it was.

Okay, but you did ask me why. To me, it goes without saying that it's important to God that we understand His nature as well as we can, given our limitations as mortal beings.

I don't believe I would ever do that because you are too dear to me. I don't feel insulted when I having a senior moment make a wrong turn and my passenger tells me so. I just realize that I need to get on the right track.

I don't know where along the line I became "dear" to you, as you have never given me any reason to suspect such. At any rate, as far as I'm concerned, we're both just passengers.

I believe it is not what I say but what Jesus says to me about those who do not have a correct understanding of the Trinity.

Yes, I understand that, but I do find it interesting that Jesus has said something entirely different to you than He has to me.

I believe you might be thinking of the meaning of the word "dim" as meaning holding in less esteem but I meant not having a view in focus.

Perhaps the beam in your eye is interfering with the clarity of your vision, Muffled.

 

[Muffled]

Okay, but you did ask me why. To me, it goes without saying that it's important to God that we understand His nature as well as we can, given our limitations as mortal beings.

I don't know where along the line I became "dear" to you, as you have never given me any reason to suspect such. At any rate, as far as I'm concerned, we're both just passengers.

Yes, I understand that, but I do find it interesting that Jesus has said something entirely different to you than He has to me.

Perhaps the beam in your eye is interfering with the clarity of your vision, Muffled.

I believe I don't want to put words in your mouth but I would usually construe this to mean if it is important to God it is important to you.

Mea culpa. I believe I have to admit I am not as generous as I ought to be when debating but I will seek to remedy that.

As we have debated in the past I believe I have come to appreciate your faith in God.

I believe that would be bizarre although possible. More likely one of us is not hearing correctly. For me it has not been an easy road even though it should be. However in these latter years Jesus has given me a greater anointing and emphasized that by fulfilling a prophecy. I can only hope that you can give a similar testimony.

I believe I am seeing with the eyes of Jesus so that should be clear enough.