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Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
Yeah, it would if human/animal sacrifice could be your salvation from your sins. Belief that Jesus is a god and died for our sins and salvation is pure paganism. Only genuine repentance can bring you to any salvation at all. That's the message that John the Baptist and Jesus promoted and was so well known that Paul and his followers couldn't suppress it completely.
Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?
Please read John chapter 1 verse 1, The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
It is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. When we get to Heaven we can find out how three beings can still be one being, yet being three! Until then we have to live by Faith!
RonandCarol
Please read John chapter 1 verse 1, The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
It is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. When we get to Heaven we can find out how three beings can still be one being, yet being three! Until then we have to live by Faith!
RonandCarol
blue taylor
Active Member
You are greatly underestimating the number of beings that can be called god.
In the beginning was the word (Vak), and the word (Vak) was with Brahma, and the word (Vak) was Brahma” (Prajapati vai idam agra asit, Tasya vak dvitiya asit, Vag vai paramam Brahma)- Source: Krishna Yajurveda, Kathaka Samhita, 12.5, 27.1
Muffled
Jesus in me
Carlita said "If Jesus were a man, he would be perfect still and still have be one with god."
I believe there is no way for a man to be perfect. I believe the only way a man can be one with God is to be God in the flesh.
Carlita said " As god, he can't because god cannot be present where sin is"
I believe this is oft misinterpreted. When it says God can't countenance sin it does not mean that He can't be in its presence. God is omnipresent so that would be an impossibility. Countenance is a similar word to account. I believe it means that God will never credit sin (to anyone's account). It will always be a debt owed (debit) which must be payed in full by punishment or by the blood of Jesus on the cross.
I believe there is no way for a man to be perfect. I believe the only way a man can be one with God is to be God in the flesh.
Carlita said " As god, he can't because god cannot be present where sin is"
I believe this is oft misinterpreted. When it says God can't countenance sin it does not mean that He can't be in its presence. God is omnipresent so that would be an impossibility. Countenance is a similar word to account. I believe it means that God will never credit sin (to anyone's account). It will always be a debt owed (debit) which must be payed in full by punishment or by the blood of Jesus on the cross.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe there is only one God.
I believe Hinduism likes to put names and personify attributes of God a little like the Muslims who have 99 names for God.
blue taylor
Active Member
Yes, but which one?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the only one I can vouch for sure is Jehovah. It may well be that other views of God are talking about the same God.
However you can rule out Zeus and company and Odin and company, and Isis and company. I also rule out Krishna even though he made the claim. I rule in Jesus.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
That's fine to have that opinion, but, then, you would have to not consider much of the NT, as actual Scripture. The NT is pretty clear, that at least, you can't just make that statement, with a logical Scriptural basis. Jesus stating that The Father and Him, are 'one', for example, among other statements, like referring to Himself as the name /title of G-d, in Hebraic Deity tradition, are pretty clear, that at least, your opinion would have to be argued to a degree that, although might be done in theory, is not cogent enough to prevent most people who agree with you, to simply state that parts of the Scripture are just false; and, therefore, they might simply claim authenticity to certain books in the NT.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the sacrificial system was removed by the dispersion and destruction of the temple and that God did that on purpose so the sacrifice of Jesus would take its place. I believe this is a case of just saying so (It is God that said to sacrifice animals) not being enough but demonstrating it makes a difference.
I believe that statement is pure non-sense.
I believe that only gets one half way there. A person may not want to sin but have difficulty avoiding it. That is why God provides grace to overcome sin (the world) through Jesus.
syo
Well-Known Member
In Orthodox Christianity it's of prime importance that Jesus is God because only as a God he could resurrect. In Orthodox Christianity Jesus is perfect man and perfect God, his human form got killed and his godly form resurrected.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Hmm. Maybe he could be human given that humans would be resurrected in spirit too; so, our being a god wouldn't need to be required for resurrection. That, and god can make humans perfect if he wanted to. I don't understand if Jesus were human, he'd all of the sudden have inherited sin. If Christians are children of god and are baptized in Christ, their sin is, well, forgiven. If Jesus were human and perfect, he'd have no sins to be forgiven. It wouldn't make him any less human just in One relationship with god more than any Christian and follower. Since we are all humans and spirits, when the human half of us die, I'd assume in Christianity (though not all denominations teach this), just as Christ, and the spirit goes to heaven, just as Christ. Though some denominations say human's body and spirit goes to heaven since Jesus body resurrected with his spirit.
So, I guess there is many ways to see it.
syo
Well-Known Member
The Orthodox Christians believe that no man can defeat death. Jesus as man died and went to the Underworld. There his Godly powers defeat Death. When Jesus comes again he will vanish Death.Hmm. Maybe he could be human given that humans would be resurrected in spirit too; so, our being a god wouldn't need to be required for resurrection. That, and god can make humans perfect if he wanted to. I don't understand if Jesus were human, he'd all of the sudden have inherited sin. If Christians are children of god and are baptized in Christ, their sin is, well, forgiven. If Jesus were human and perfect, he'd have no sins to be forgiven. It wouldn't make him any less human just in One relationship with god more than any Christian and follower. Since we are all humans and spirits, when the human half of us die, I'd assume in Christianity (though not all denominations teach this), just as Christ, and the spirit goes to heaven, just as Christ. Though some denominations say human's body and spirit goes to heaven since Jesus body resurrected with his spirit.
So, I guess there is many ways to see it.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
If Jesus were human and perfect and no man can defeat death than his being perfect human would not affect him as not being god. In other words, since no man can defeat death-Jesus included-than him being a perfect human being doesn't do anything other than tell us that he isn't "god". It's a claim; that doesn't take away his divinity (union with god) nor does it invalidate his purpose (his Passion). It just means he isn't the father.
How is that wrong or doesn't make sense I will say in the Orthodox point of view?
syo
Well-Known Member
The Orthodox believe in the Trinity. Father, Son(Jesus), and Holy Spirit.
2000 years ago Son came to earth in perfect human form, in order to die, go to the underworld and defeat death. When Son came to earth he didn't lost his Godly powers. But he became perfect human. Perfect human means that he was not less of a human or greater than a human.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Nope, and it should not, even to Christians.
Jesus said he was the Hebrew Messiah, not a God, not part of a trinity, no virgin birth, etc. That stuff was added later.
SO, - not even Christians have to believe he was a trinity God, - to be Christians = followers of the Christ/Anointed One.
Nothing would happen, just as it obviously hasn't. The Jewish Messiah was to be a special HUMAN through the line of David.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Why not? This Messiah comes from JEWISH prophecy, which tells us he is an Anointed One/Messiah, - a special HUMAN from the line of David.
The religion he comes out of, and was prophesized for, - believes in ONE GOD, - all else including the trinity idea, is blasphemy.
This HUMAN Messiah was to bring about the end, - and Final Judgment. So obviously he didn't need to be a God to do so, - just the patronage and loaned power of one.
Jesus never claims to be God, or a trinity. He says it all comes from his father. He is a special son of YHVH. The Bible tells us all of the Jewish people, - are Sons of YHVH.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
For Christianity to work as Paul states, he has to be divine; else it would be human sacrifice, and thus not atoning, because it defiles the Law (Torah).
However, the Messiah is a Jewish prophecy, and the prophecy does not include his death. He is supposed to bring about the end and Final Judgment. This of course makes it look like Jesus isn't the prophesized Messiah.
I suppose on the other hand, - you could look at the beginnings of the Jewish religion, and the Firstborn originally being a special sacrifice belonging to YHVH. Somewhere along the line it became an animal sacrifice. So I suppose you could think of Jesus as a Special Human Sacrifice like the original - a Final Special Human Sacrificial Offering for other humans. The group sin is transferred onto the sacrifice - so the later "sin" of no human sacrifices, - would just be one more on him.
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