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Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
Check the end of Isaiah 52:10... The words are Yeshuat Eloheinu in Hebrew - 'Salvation of our God'.
If we look at the context of that line, it refers to the arm of the lord; as we find in the first line of Isaiah 53:1.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Check the end of Isaiah 52:10... The words are Yeshuat Eloheinu in Hebrew - 'Salvation of our God'.
If we look at the context of that line, it refers to the arm of the lord; as we find in the first line of Isaiah 53:1.
Good grief! Read it in context, - and note I have salvation in the translation.
Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Isa 52:10 YHVH hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the victory/salvation of our God.
This text is specific -
1The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, Kings of Judah.
The people in 52:5 are being ruled over and crying out.
THEREFORE -
YHVH bears his arm - meaning - muscle - power, - so all see his salvation of his people.
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with a future Jesus.
*
Thief
Rogue Theologian
the potential must have been there.
according the three of the gospels......
He was baptized and went straightway to the wilderness .....to be tempted
Apparently He did not fail .....as the devil came tempting
but afterwards he did say.......Do not call Me good.....
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Either its your style of writing or I see no connection in the points Im making.
If god the father created a perfect human for christians to relate to and die for christians, how is that wrong?
How can jesus save christians without being human?
Jesus is the Way (literal and figurative). The path to the father. Not to himself. How can a christian overlook that?
Do christians feel relating to a human, though god sent, makes them still feel sinful? As if flesh somehow voids their relationship with god?
Edit
If so, isnt that not what jesus came to do (his father sent for him to do) in the first place. Because he is flesh, christians can die in him as he dies, in flesh-as human-for christians?
Isnt rejecting jesus as human calling god a lier?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
it's not the dying that counts
sinners do as much
it's the life and the living
Jesus saved no one by dying
His salvation is found in the parables
you can follow.....if you have eyes that see.....ears that hear
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
His dying is the center piece of salvation. Without sacrifice how are you saved?
Thats like saying the result is more important than the process that gets here. Im a process oriented person not goal. If I kept looking for life without death (shedding sins) then Id never get to my destination.
So Jesus needed to be human not onky to save christisns via his life and resurrection but to forgive christians sins through his blood and crucifiction.
blue taylor
Active Member
Those that are born die. Jesus died. No god there.
Isaiah is a prophetic poet, everything has to be taken into context; Isaiah 1:1 is explaining the time period he came.
The word is from the root of salvation, might say victory in Strongs; yet it isn't ever used in translation as it doesn't fit.
If we look at the Orthodox Jewish Bible, it translates the word the same in old and new testament, so we can see the interlinking metaphors.
The people howling is an end times prophecy in Isaiah 65:14 as well...
And since Isaiah 52:1 is saying no longer shall any unclean thing come into Jerusalem, clearly that could be Messianic age prophecy (which is still unfolding).
Doesn't have anything saying about power, muscle, etc.
If you stop calling him jesus, and recognize his name was Yeshua, we find numerous references.
syo
Well-Known Member
That picture is what the Trinity is that Orthodox Christians believe. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Orthodox Christians view Jesus as the Son.
Why do Orthodox Christians believe that Jesus is the Son? One reason is because Jesus resurrected.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
What my point is, though, when you say "Jesus is god" you are taking one circle and overlapping another in full. Is-meaning in full not in part-as the core of how the three link even though they are not each other.
Jesus is the Son, but I am saying he is not god. If he were, who is he being resurrected to? Who is he siting at the right hand of? and so on?
When I went to Church, I genuflect on my right knee. If Jesus is god, then I would kneel on both knees because Jesus doesn't beside himself.
Kind of get the pattern?
syo
Well-Known Member
The Trinity is real. Jesus acted properly according to Father.
syo
Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
How do you define god?
They all can't be one entity. Jesus has a spirit. He is not just defined by his spirit he is also define by his flesh. God is only spirit. So they are not each other.
The Holy Spirit came from Christ. The dove of god came to Christ. Christ sits at the right hand of his father. He doesn't sit in his father's place.
How do you define god?
If he is love, then why no say love instead? If he is spirit, why not say spirit instead? Everyone is spirit. What makes one spirit better than another? We are all unique: God/Creator, Jesus/Son, Holy Spirit/Comforter included.
Having one spirit doesn't mean we are each other.
syo
Well-Known Member
According to Orthodox Christians God is the Ultimate Being, the Creator, Life-Giver, All-Loving, All-knowing, and God has three faces, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Father is the Creator
Son is Revelation
Holy Spirit is Life Giver
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
No? What do you mean by ''human''? the bible states that Jesus is divine person, nothing like an average person. what book are you reading?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
syo
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the Son. Jesus is not the Father, and he is not the Holy Spirit. He is the Son.
Yes, I believe in the Trinity.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Please no sarcasm.
Human as in flesh and blood just as we are. Divinity doesn't make a person god. If that be the case, every Christian who shares in their creator's divinity would be god.
Calling Jesus god is telling god, "hey, you can't make a perfect divine human unless he is you." or "you're not the creator of the universe who can do anything. You can do anything but make a perfect human divine."
I did not quote any scriptures. So, these are opinions based on the gospels. If you'd like me to quote scriptures that Jesus is not god, I can do that. My point is not to throw out scriptures. In my faith, I'm actually not supposed to do that.
So, if you want to take part in the conversation, you can. Please explain to me how Jesus can be god and why Jesus' being human some how limits Jesus in saving Christians.