Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?

[Unveiled Artist]

You are still looking over my points and not addressing them individually.

Father gave birth to Son to reveal his will.

Yes. This doesnt make him god.

Son obeys the Father, without the Father there is no Son, Son doesn't have a will on his own.

Yes. This doesnt make him god.

Son is not the Father.

Yes. I said that. As a result, it doesnt make Jesus god.

The father is the only god there is. He holy spirit is not god. Its nature is spirit not a deity. Jesus is not god. His nature is a human not an entity.

Regardless if they are the same core, they are not each other. Consequently, they are not god.

 

[syo]

You are still looking over my points and not addressing them individually.


Yes. This doesnt make him god.



Yes. This doesnt make him god.



Yes. I said that. As a result, it doesnt make Jesus god.

The father is the only god there is. He holy spirit is not god. Its nature is spirit not a deity. Jesus is not god. His nature is a human not an entity.

Regardless if they are the same core, they are not each other. Consequently, they are not god.

Father gave birth to a mortal human?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Father gave birth to a mortal human?

Mother gave birth to an mortal human.

You're still not addressing my points.

Edit: Father can give birth?

 

[Desert Snake]

I never said they worshiped god through jesus. I said they understand how a human can be divine (say a prophet) without being thr creator himself.

I dont see how my two comments relate.

If jesus can only do what god wants him to do as god then thats telling him he cant make a human sinless. Its calling god a lier.

Completely different comment that Muslim, Jew, and JW understand the difference between a prophets divinity and that of the creator.

Where is the contradiction?

I'm not a Christian, so I am going to leave the argument here. If others want to argue the flaws in your arguments, they can.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm not a Christian, so I am going to leave the argument here. If others want to argue the flaws in your arguments, they can.

I am not a Christian and I don't take insults very well. Debates aren't meant to be argued. You present supporting evidence on either side and the point of doing so is to find a consensus between both sides that we think the other is flawed on. We take either side into consideration, and maturely and thoroughly debate from there.

Once you make it into an insult, argument, and drop off conversation no one learns anything.

That I hate. If you don't want to have an open discussion, that's fine. Please do not insult me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Guys.

I'm not debating from a Christian perspective. I am literally asking not debating:

Since scripture does not say and define Jesus as god the father and there is only one god/father not three, how can Jesus be god?

If god is a noun-a person-then he cannot be Jesus and he cannot be the holy spirit.

For Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be god, god would need to be an adjective describing these three separate persons. The nature they share.

In mainstream Christianity, the word God is treated as a noun. That does not make sense to me.

Can you clarify that with or without scripture and commentary?

 

[syo]

Mother gave birth to an mortal human.

You're still not addressing my points.

Edit: Father can give birth?

Madonna conceived miraculusly, Jesus did miracles, Jesus showed the Way to Father, Jesus resurrected from dead. A mere human can't do all that stuff. A mere human doesn't have the authority to do all that stuff because ALL humans are EQUAL to God. Jesus did all these because he is God. Father (God) gave birth to Son (God). Madonna gave birth to Son's human form Jesus.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Madonna conceived miraculusly, Jesus did miracles, Jesus showed the Way to Father, Jesus resurrected from dead. A mere human can't do all that stuff. A mere human doesn't have the authority to do all that stuff because ALL humans are EQUAL to God. Jesus did all these because he is God. Father (God) gave birth to Son (God). Madonna gave birth to Son's human form Jesus.

I understand that. What I find illogical is why Jesus can't be a human and be resurrected, have the authority from his father, and equal to god, because god (the father) made this happen and one else.

If Jesus and I, both human, stand side by side and God gave him authority, resurrected him, and made him in union with himself.

and little ol' me (not mere me) just little ol' me

I don't have these things

but that doesn't make me less of a human than Jesus. We just have different natures, different callings, and purposes. That doesn't limit him by calling him human. Why? Because he gets everything from god.

I do not.

That doesn't make him god. Just not me.



This, of course, means if you are talking about god as a noun/person. How you defined god earlier was an adjective (what describes a noun). Jesus is god as an adjective. Jesus is not god as a noun. Why? Because the only noun that defines god is god the father. When you make Jesus god/noun, you make two gods.

So the word god needs to be specified more than just saying attributes.

 

[Thief]

His dying is the center piece of salvation. Without sacrifice how are you saved?

Thats like saying the result is more important than the process that gets here. Im a process oriented person not goal. If I kept looking for life without death (shedding sins) then Id never get to my destination.

So Jesus needed to be human not onky to save christisns via his life and resurrection but to forgive christians sins through his blood and crucifiction.

the sacrifice is yours to make.....and the Carpenter said.....
No greater love than this....that a man lay down his life for another

The instruction given.....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

caught up in earning a living as I am....
my opportunity to lay down my life to benefit another is few and far between
I do what I can when the moment is at hand

 

[Thief]

He is not the Creator. He is not god.

God is the creator. Unless there are two gods.

it is written.....ye ARE gods....

 

[Unveiled Artist]

it is written.....ye ARE gods....

All Christians are gods?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

the sacrifice is yours to make.....and the Carpenter said.....
No greater love than this....that a man lay down his life for another

The instruction given.....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

caught up in earning a living as I am....
my opportunity to lay down my life to benefit another is few and far between
I do what I can when the moment is at hand

It's both Christ's and the Christian's. Both are in the same boat. Christ just had a more unity with the father than Christians do.

 

[Ingledsva]

What pray are you refering to?

He is perfect God AND perfect human. His human side got weak as an ordinary human would do.

Because the Son's power came from the Father.

Because people would ignore the Father and start worship the Son.

Are you kidding? What do you expect? That Jesus would say to people "I'm part of the Trinity, believe me?"?

Jesus is God. The Trinity "idea" is true.

PRAYER - Mat 26:36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

Mat 26:37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

Mat 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Mat 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. ...

NOT GOD - Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Mark 10:18 And he Jesus said to him: why me call good? None/Not even one is good; not one but the Deity. = Here Jesus tells us he is NOT Deity.

John 5:30 I can do nothing by myself; but as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just; for I do not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord OUR God, the Lord is ONE.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

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[Ingledsva]

His name was Yeshua, or Yehoshua.

This is the problem using Strongs, we miss out on the grammar; the word used is Yeshuat.

Tell us where you get that name? - As it is not what the NT says his name is - and THOSE are the texts telling us about Jesus.

Bull to the Strong's crap. You know perfectly well how Hebrew works. Forms of the same word with the same meaning.

And by the way - I didn't use a Strong's. I have the Hebrew texts on my computer. I also have the Greek texts, which is why I know he is called Iesous.

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[Ingledsva]

Do the Jews resurrect from the dead?

I answered above post.

I don't know the role of the Jewish Messiah.

The rising is from the Hebrew SHEOL, not a literal human grave. The Hebrew Messiah is a special HUMAN from the line of David, - not a God.

Later Christians not understanding this turned the rising from SHEOL/grave, - into he and others actually rising from a grave and walking around a city. This is bull.

To learn about the Jewish Messiah, - which is whom the Christians claim Jesus is, - go to a Jewish site and read the info.

Video - http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge...-messiah/why-jesus-is-not-the-jewish-messiah/

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[Ingledsva]

Madonna conceived miraculusly, Jesus did miracles, Jesus showed the Way to Father, Jesus resurrected from dead. A mere human can't do all that stuff. A mere human doesn't have the authority to do all that stuff because ALL humans are EQUAL to God. Jesus did all these because he is God. Father (God) gave birth to Son (God). Madonna gave birth to Son's human form Jesus.

Mary did not conceive miraculously. Later Christians thought Isaiah 7:14 was a prophecy of the Messiah so they gave him a "Virgin" birth story. Unfortunately for them, the word means young woman, - not virgin, - and has nothing to do with the future Jesus prophecies.

Almah – lass – young woman. Bethulah = virgin.

A prophesied SPECIAL HUMAN MESSIAH sent from God, - Why wouldn't he have special powers given to him???

People today are still claiming they can heal people with power from God.

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[wizanda]

Tell us where you get that name?

It is claimed that Iesous is a transliteration of Yeshua into Greek...

The full Hebrew of the name is Yehoshua; yet it was a common name of the time to shorten it into Yeshua.

Forms of the same word with the same meaning.

Yeh like Victory, and Victorious, clearly the slight nuances in language have a reason for being there.

Yet trying to make a whole case by translating a phrase, with the words needed to make that ideology, rather then fit within the nuances, leads to error.

Plus if you ask Hebrew speakers, the word Yeshua means to save, not victory; no where is it translated as victory.

Would explain the whole case of the Taunting Riddle, and why it isn't by power or might; yet by the spirit of God, that everything would be fulfilled; if you weren't so convinced on what you already believe.

 

[Ingledsva]

it is written.....ye ARE gods....

In context meaning - the elected of God, - not actually Gods.

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[dgirl1986]

I always thought that worshipping jesus was really iffy when you consider he was a man in the flesh and in the 10 commandments it is instructed to only worship god

 

[Thief]

In context meaning - the elected of God, - not actually Gods.

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no hierarchy in heaven?

I believe .....so......