Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?

[Ingledsva]

Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?
Please read John chapter 1 verse 1, The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
It is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. When we get to Heaven we can find out how three beings can still be one being, yet being three! Until then we have to live by Faith!
RonandCarol

However, in the Greek it doesn't actually say Jesus is the Logos/word.

The - logos (Divine command/Computation/law,) - which is with God - became encased in Jesus the human - so he could be a special teacher - Anointed One - Messiah. The Messiah is a Jewish prophecy, and a human from the line of David, - not a God.

1 Within the First Estate/Principle exists the Logos (Divine command/Computation/law,) and the Logos (Divine command/Computation/law) exists within the Divinity, and the Divinity exists as the Logos (Divine command/Computation/law.)

14 And logos (Divine command/Computation/law,) encased in flesh became, and dwelt among us, and we perceived the glory of the monogenes (singular/special one) from the Father, replete with grace/gifts and truth.

*

 

[Thief]

I couldn't find this in the search. I am dead serious. Simple question.

Does it matter if Jesus is not god?​

This is my position: Jesus is not god. Does it matter? No. I won't get into why. Ya'll probably know why from me already. So, I won't debate my position.

Just a simple answer and support. Does it matter if Jesus is not god?

If you don't like If questions: Jesus is god and does it matter? Why?​

I don't want to know if Jesus is god or not. I already accepted what I know and studied. I just want to know does it matter if he is not.

Audience: Christians who believe Jesus is god. If you use scripture, add commentary. However, don't use scripture to prove he is god; I know and understand your position.

What would happen if Jesus was not god? If a human saved humanity from their sins? Is it possible? Why or why not?​

I would have put this in Interfaith; but, topics like this are treated as debates even though to a lot of us who pose similar questions, we do not want it to be so. Please be civilized and unique in your answers.

well...if the Carpenter is not one with His God.....
they rest of us are screwed

He allegedly could walk on water....feed thousands.....heal the infirm....and chase away the devil
storms go away because He said so

if He failed.............................................................

 

[Katzpur]

Why not? This Messiah comes from JEWISH prophecy, which tells us he is an Anointed One/Messiah, - a special HUMAN from the line of David.

The religion he comes out of, and was prophesized for, - believes in ONE GOD, - all else including the trinity idea, is blasphemy.

This HUMAN Messiah was to bring about the end, - and Final Judgment. So obviously he didn't need to be a God to do so, - just the patronage and loaned power of one.

Jesus never claims to be God, or a trinity. He says it all comes from his father. He is a special son of YHVH. The Bible tells us all of the Jewish people, - are Sons of YHVH.

*

Well, I'm with you when it comes to the Trinity. And no, Jesus didn't come right out and call himself "God." Personally, I find the evidence that I was, indeed, more than just "a special human" compelling enough that I choose to believe it. Since I don't believe in the Trinity, though, my understanding of both His divinity and His relationship to His Father differs from the traditional Christian one.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

well...if the Carpenter is not one with His God.....
they rest of us are screwed

He allegedly could walk on water....feed thousands.....heal the infirm....and chase away the devil
storms go away because He said so

if He failed.............................................................

Every Christian is one with god. "With faith you can do the same things as I did..." He doesn't have to be god for his father to use him as an instrument to take away sins whether the disciples needed miracles for proof or people today need the Bible.

If Jesus is one with god, then him being human would be god's intention.

I don't see how god can, um, mess things up.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?
Please read John chapter 1 verse 1, The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
It is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. When we get to Heaven we can find out how three beings can still be one being, yet being three! Until then we have to live by Faith!
RonandCarol

God is an adjective to describe the divinity of three separate spirits or people.

God the Father.
God the Son.
God the Holy Spirit

They all possess one divinity: aka, they are all god (lower g).

That is why it is "God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". They each play a role in a Christian's life.

Once you put Jesus as god, you place him on a petal stool. Once you do that, you're offending the creator by making his son his father. Yes, "like father, like son."

How is that wrong? It's just, well, logical. Christianity isn't a mystical and mysterious faith if you look at what Jesus said rather than what a Christian wants him to say.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, I'm with you when it comes to the Trinity. And no, Jesus didn't come right out and call himself "God." Personally, I find the evidence that I was, indeed, more than just "a special human" compelling enough that I choose to believe it. Since I don't believe in the Trinity, though, my understanding of both His divinity and His relationship to His Father differs from the traditional Christian one.

Hey. (unrelated). What happened to our convo? To be continued?

 

[wizanda]

the prophecy does not include his death.

Isaiah 52:10 has a variation of his name Yeshua Elohim... Isaiah 53 + Isaiah 28, Daniel 9:26, Habakkuk 2, Zechariah 11, etc.

Please debate all of those prophecies in the Taunting Riddle thread, and will explain each, as don't wish to debate it in this topic.

a Final Special Human Sacrificial Offering for other humans.

Which as saying is against Jewish Law; unless we say he was divine, and he laid his own life down freely, otherwise it isn't Kosher.

He is supposed to bring about the end and Final Judgment.

Which is a work in progress, and why the Taunting Riddle is stated to take a long time.

 

[syo]

He was still human. Logically, since he is no lesser or more than a human, and because he was a human, how does that fact in and of itself make him the creator?

I want to add something.

The Trinity - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - is Eternal God.

Son took a human form (Jesus) -EDITED- 2000 years ago. Son isn't human since eternity. His human form started with Madonna conceiving miraculusly -EDITED-

Son's human form does not hinder his godly form.

Father is the creator.

 

[rusra02]

I believe it matters greatly to God and Jesus Christ that we know the truth about them. (John 17:3) The false teaching that Jesus is Almighty God gives people a distorted view of God, and makes him an unknowable "mystery", IMO. Jesus, on the other hand, said "I know the father" and " I love the father". (John 10:15, 14:31) Jesus also told his disciples: "true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:23,24) Obviously, Jesus had no doubt as to whom should be worshipped. (Matthew 4:10) I think that believing the unscriptural teaching that Jesus is Almighty God renders our worship in vain. (Matthew 15:9)

 

[Thief]

Every Christian is one with god. "With faith you can do the same things as I did..." He doesn't have to be god for his father to use him as an instrument to take away sins whether the disciples needed miracles for proof or people today need the Bible.

If Jesus is one with god, then him being human would be god's intention.

I don't see how god can, um, mess things up.

I lean to the notion God is good
and the Carpenter did say....
Do not call Me good. No one is good but the Father

by His own admission....there was a difference

He also referred to Himself as the Son of Man

and when He spoke the parable of the Prodigal Son......I suspect....
He was speaking of Himself

 

[Katzpur]

Hey. (unrelated). What happened to our convo? To be continued?

Absolutely. And I'm so sorry I dropped the ball. Tomorrow I promise. And I'll explain my delay at that time. I have only five minutes or so to post right now, and my reply to you is going to take more time than that.

 

[anna3d]

for me just obey his orders, stay away from his ban, to do good to others and you will feel his presence

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

That's fine to have that opinion, but, then, you would have to not consider much of the NT, as actual Scripture.

There is nothing to support ANY divine revelation except hearsay, and that's far to susceptible to human misinterpretation or corruption. IOW, there's no reasonable basis even for other believers to believe in it, except by declaration of pure, unfounded faith. And to that I can only ask why?

I believe the sacrificial system was removed by the dispersion and destruction of the temple and that God did that on purpose so the sacrifice of Jesus would take its place.

So animal sacrifice was done away with and replaced by human sacrifice.

I believe that statement is pure non-sense.

I believe that only gets one half way there. A person may not want to sin but have difficulty avoiding it. That is why God provides grace to overcome sin (the world) through Jesus.

Take it up with John the Baptist and Jesus--besides the fact that salvific sacrifice makes no rational sense, particularly if it doesn't require a change of heart and repentance as Paul claims it doesn't.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I lean to the notion God is good
and the Carpenter did say....
Do not call Me good. No one is good but the Father

This kind of supports my point. If Jesus is god, he would have said. "No one else is good but me." He never refers to himself as god. He always referred himself as god's representative/image of/son of/highest prophet of.

Never Is.

He also referred to Himself as the Son of Man

If he were god, regardless if he was flesh, he would refer to himself as the son of man nor god. He would say he Is god.

and when He spoke the parable of the Prodigal Son......I suspect....
He was speaking of Himself

Youd have to summarize the story.

Jesus always refers to himself as the Way to get to the Father. Not "Come to be because I AM the father". Two different statements and meaning.

 

[Thief]

This kind of supports my point. If Jesus is god, he would have said. "No one else is good but me." He never refers to himself as god. He always referred himself as god's representative/image of/son of/highest prophet of.

Never Is.



If he were god, regardless if he was flesh, he would refer to himself as the son of man nor god. He would say he Is god.



Youd have to summarize the story.

Jesus always refers to himself as the Way to get to the Father. Not "Come to be because I AM the father". Two different statements and meaning.

the story is about a wayward son......taking his inheritance with him and parting from his father

after spending his lot in every manner he could.....he found himself without comfort

he then returns home and knowing his decrepit condition....
would ask for labor and a wage
no longer considering himself worthy of being a son

as he approached, his father saw him and gave instruction
kill the fat calf and make a feast
my son returns to me

a brother not having strayed took offense
"I have been with you and served you
and you make feast for him that squandered all tat you have given
and not once have you made a feast for me

and the father replied....
you have indeed been with me always
but your brother.....whom I thought to be lost....
has returned
let us rejoice

I think the Carpenter realized how far from home He really was

 

[Unveiled Artist]

the story is about a wayward son......taking his inheritance with him and parting from his father

after spending his lot in every manner he could.....he found himself without comfort

he then returns home and knowing his decrepit condition....
would ask for labor and a wage
no longer considering himself worthy of being a son

as he approached, his father saw him and gave instruction
kill the fat calf and make a feast
my son returns to me

a brother not having strayed took offense
"I have been with you and served you
and you make feast for him that squandered all tat you have given
and not once have you made a feast for me

and the father replied....
you have indeed been with me always
but your brother.....whom I thought to be lost....
has returned
let us rejoice

I think the Carpenter realized how far from home He really was

Im not following. What does this say about jesus being god?9

 

[Thief]

Im not following. What does this say about jesus being god?9

There is one God
the rest of us are sons and daughters

we are not God

and some of us.....are going home
and some are not

if the Carpenter failed......no one is going anywhere
I think of Him as Elder Brother
no crown ....He didn't want one

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is one God
the rest of us are sons and daughters

we are not God

and some of us.....are going home
and some are not

if the Carpenter failed......no one is going anywhere
I think of Him as Elder Brother
no crown ....He didn't want one

How can the carpenter fail if he were human? What about god making Jesus a perfect person and flesh that is a mirror of himself-god (who god is rather than what he is) make him someone who failed?

Isn't that like calling god a lier?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I want to add something.

The Trinity - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - is Eternal God.

Son took a human form (Jesus) -EDITED- 2000 years ago. Son isn't human since eternity. His human form started with Madonna conceiving miraculusly -EDITED-

Son's human form does not hinder his godly form.

Father is the creator.

It doesnt make sense logically and it isnt in the bible.

Think about it. God (entity noun not divinity adjective) is a spirit. Thats in all abrahamic faiths. Christianity is no different before the Romans.

Jesus is a human. He is flesh and his flesh just as ours. He is tempted just as we are. He has the capacity to be tempted just as we. Same emotions. He is spirit just as we.

They are not each other. They are two completely different "people".

What mainstream christians get mixed up in my opinion is the nature and definity of divinity as if divinity can only be in one person. In the bible, that isnt true. The reason God/father, Jesus, and Holy spirit are god/divine is because they "share" one divinity, one spirit, or one soul-however phrased.

When a christian is born again, he or she becomes part of that divinity but only in the image of christ as a human. Once they christians go through the passion, they are resurrected "just as christ". Christians are sons and daughters (children) of the father Not jesus. Christians are not grandchildren. Thats not in scripture.

What is in scripture is that gos the father came down as a dove into jesus when he was baptized. The holy spirit came from jesus among believers. Everything is "shared".

Its like taking thre curcles and puting part of them together in the middle. What you are doing is overlapping the circles. No.

I cant use url pic on my phone. This is what Im talking about.

Overlap center circles

The center is the father, jesus, holy spirit divinity shared. The outer parts show their uniqueness. You can see three "different" circles. Yet they share one core.

How can a christian not see that? Especially when there are many many references in the bible about jesus nature compared to his father both OT and NT?

It doesnt mean he cant save anyone. He shares the fathers divinity. He is not god.

 

[Ingledsva]

Isaiah 52:10 has a variation of his name Yeshua Elohim... Isaiah 53 + Isaiah 28, Daniel 9:26, Habakkuk 2, Zechariah 11, etc.

Nice try but it means victory or salvation in context, as is well known.

Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.


Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

Isa 52:10 YHVH hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the victory/salvation of our God.

None of the rest of the verses you mention - have anything to do with a later Jesus either.

Which as saying is against Jewish Law; unless we say he was divine, and he laid his own life down freely, otherwise it isn't Kosher.

As I said - it was once LAW that the Firstborn was a sacrifice to God. It LATER became animals only. So they could have gone back for ONE last very special HUMAN Sacrifice, for all.

Eze 20:25 Wherefore - I (YHVH) - gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

Eze 20:26 And - I - polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

*
Exodus 22: 29 –Thou shalt not delay TO OFFER the FIRST of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: THE FIRSTBORN OF THY SONS SHALT THOU GIVE UNTO ME.

*
Leviticus 27: 28 Notwithstanding NO devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the Lord of all that he hath, BOTH OF MAN and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the Lord.

29 – None devoted, which shall be devoted of men shall be redeemed; BUT SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH.

*