Does logic support God? Maybe.

[Dan4reason]

The point of this thread is for users to provide evidence, proof, and logical reasons to believe in Christianity and religion; and for those reasons to be critiqued by other users. This is a very general thread and I will be basing future threads on arguments made for Christianity, religion, and God's existence. I just want to know the evidence you have for believing the way you do. It also all right to try to support theism by attacking atheism and evolution but remember there are already many threads specifically about evolution.

An astounding 86% of Americans believe that God exists and I am almost positive that they must have at least ONE logical reason for doing so or else the massive majority of this country is brainwashed. Right up front I am going to identify some arguments that do not count. Here they are below.

God exists...

because the bible said so.

because I have faith.

because he said so and God knows everything so he must be right.

I hope that forum members will provide good arguments for his existence.

 

[Storm]

The point of this thread is for users to provide evidence, proof, and logical reasons to believe in Christianity and religion; and for those reasons to be critiqued by other users. This is a very general thread and I will be basing future threads on arguments made for Christianity, religion, and God's existence. I just want to know the evidence you have for believing the way you do. It also all right to try to support theism by attacking atheism and evolution but remember there are already many threads specifically about evolution.

An astounding 86% of Americans believe that God exists and I am almost positive that they must have at least ONE logical reason for doing so or else the massive majority of this country is brainwashed. Right up front I am going to identify some arguments that do not count. Here they are below.

God exists...

because the bible said so.

because I have faith.

because he said so and God knows everything so he must be right.

I hope that forum members will provide good arguments for his existence.

Well, I'm not a Christian, nor even a theist (precisely speaking), but you did say it was to be a general thread.

I believe in God because it's the best explanation to date for certain experiences I've had. Now, I don't expect you to be persuaded by anecdotal evidence, but imo, it's a perfectly valid reason for me to believe.

 

[outhouse]

God exist

in your mind based on where you live in my opinion.

Live in the middle east you have muhammad
live in the USA you have a christian god

and so on and so on

 

[Dan4reason]

Well, I'm not a Christian, nor even a theist (precisely speaking), but you did say it was to be a general thread.

I believe in God because it's the best explanation to date for certain experiences I've had. Now, I don't expect you to be persuaded by anecdotal evidence, but imo, it's a perfectly valid reason for me to believe.

Anecdotal evidence has convinced me that I exist so it does have at least a little validity. I would be very interested to hear what you think of as evidence but I will treat it like an argument.

 

[Storm]

Anecdotal evidence has convinced me that I exist so it does have at least a little validity. I would be very interested to hear what you think of as evidence but I will treat it like an argument.

Well, when I was quite young, I had what's called a "peak experience." I believe I perceived God, though not the sort I was expecting. I can't adequately describe it, though I did eventually come up with a barely-adequate metaphor:

Imagine if you could suddenly hear every person in the world, every voice that has ever spoken singing all at once, each voice a distinct and unrelated song. But rather than chaos or dissonance, the wildly variant melodies create a greater song that contains them all within its own distinct melody, uses them to make its own voice. Beyond that you can hear the songs of every plant, animal, stone, and feather of air in their own songs, making up the voice, the soul of our planet, who in turn sings with the other celestial bodies. The intricacy is circular, the symphonic galaxies uniting as the voices of single atoms, no voice on any level ever losing its unique timbre or distinct melody - the voice of God. It begins to speak a word, but before you can take in even a syllable, the vision is gone.
​

Plese note, that was strictly metaphor. It wasn't an auditory perception. I have no word for what it was.

 

[Dan4reason]

Well, when I was quite young, I had what's called a "peak experience." I believe I perceived God, though not the sort I was expecting. I can't adequately describe it, though I did eventually come up with a barely-adequate metaphor:

Imagine if you could suddenly hear every person in the world, every voice that has ever spoken singing all at once, each voice a distinct and unrelated song. But rather than chaos or dissonance, the wildly variant melodies create a greater song that contains them all within its own distinct melody, uses them to make its own voice. Beyond that you can hear the songs of every plant, animal, stone, and feather of air in their own songs, making up the voice, the soul of our planet, who in turn sings with the other celestial bodies. The intricacy is circular, the symphonic galaxies uniting as the voices of single atoms, no voice on any level ever losing its unique timbre or distinct melody - the voice of God. It begins to speak a word, but before you can take in even a syllable, the vision is gone.
​

Plese note, that was strictly metaphor. It wasn't an auditory perception. I have no word for what it was.

That sounds like an awesome experience. Was this experience emotional and how was it spiritual? Once I had a crazy emotional experience that changed my life but I do not consider that spiritual, it was simply personal.

 

[Storm]

That sounds like an awesome experience. Was this experience emotional and how was it spiritual? Once I had a crazy emotional experience that changed my life but I do not consider that spiritual, it was simply personal.

As I said, if there's an accurate word for what I perceived, I don't know it. There was much intense emotion accompanying the "vision," but I wouldn't call the experience itself "emotional."

What do you mean when you say "spiritual?" It's a vague word.

 

[Dan4reason]

As I said, if there's an accurate word for what I perceived, I don't know it. There was much intense emotion accompanying the "vision," but I wouldn't call the experience itself "emotional."

What do you mean when you say "spiritual?" It's a vague word.

Spirtual things include spirits (obvious), demons, angels, God(s), higher realms, ghosts, universal intelligence, etc. You are right it is a very vague term and I hope these examples help you understand what I think of as spiritual.

When I say spiritual I am meaning supernatural things which can be specific forces, people, and/or dimentions outside this one, or at least our scientific understanding.

So what part of your experience makes you think that it had something to do with the supernatural? I have had times when I have felt incredible peace and oneness with the universe but these experiences no matter how amazing are still emotional but they are still important to me.

 

[Storm]

Spirtual things include spirits (obvious), demons, angels, God(s), higher realms, ghosts, universal intelligence, etc. You are right it is a very vague term and I hope these examples help you understand what I think of as spiritual.

When I say spiritual I am meaning supernatural things which can be specific forces, people, and/or dimentions outside this one, or at least our scientific understanding.

So what part of your experience makes you think that it had something to do with the supernatural? I have had times when I have felt incredible peace and oneness with the universe but these experiences no matter how amazing are still emotional but they are still important to me.

Ah, glad I asked. I reject the supernatural, so by your definition, I would not call my experience "spiritual."

Perhaps the elevator speech would be helpful here.

I believe in what someone cleverer than I dubbed "the living Godiverse." That God is a sapient organism whose body is the cosmos. It is not supernatural - indeed, the laws of nature are vital to its well being, akin to its physiology.

Getting back to my theophany, I believe I got a glimpse of reality from the perspective of the rhys, the deeply-buried aspect of consciousness which is undifferentiated from God's.

 

[Madhuri]

I consider myself Hindu because the scriptures provide what seems blatant to me to be the highest wisdom on this planet. I've yet to come across any philosophy that speaks so true to me, or that exactly reflects my experiences of life.

I DON'T believe in other religions because they do not offer me the same clarity or the same realisations. I DO believe in many scientific theories because it also offers logic and knowledge and understanding. I DO NOT put all my faith in science, however, because of the number of times I have come across studies that are highly biased and flawed. With EVERYTHING, I try to use my intelligence and as much logic as possible.

But all logical thought and analysis is limited by one's current knowledge and understanding. So you may think that GOD is illogical, but that is based on your limited amount of knowledge. You may think that GOD is logical, but that may also be based on your limited amount of knowledge.

Every perspective is subjective.

 

[Madhuri]

Btw Dan, I'm curious about the thought process that lead you to write:

"reasons to believe in Christianity and religion" AND
"arguments made for Christianity, religion, and God's existence."

Do you consider Christianity to be something other than religion? Do you somehow separate Christianity from other religions? In what manner?

 

[Penumbra]

Well, when I was quite young, I had what's called a "peak experience." I believe I perceived God, though not the sort I was expecting. I can't adequately describe it, though I did eventually come up with a barely-adequate metaphor:

Imagine if you could suddenly hear every person in the world, every voice that has ever spoken singing all at once, each voice a distinct and unrelated song. But rather than chaos or dissonance, the wildly variant melodies create a greater song that contains them all within its own distinct melody, uses them to make its own voice. Beyond that you can hear the songs of every plant, animal, stone, and feather of air in their own songs, making up the voice, the soul of our planet, who in turn sings with the other celestial bodies. The intricacy is circular, the symphonic galaxies uniting as the voices of single atoms, no voice on any level ever losing its unique timbre or distinct melody - the voice of God. It begins to speak a word, but before you can take in even a syllable, the vision is gone.
​

Plese note, that was strictly metaphor. It wasn't an auditory perception. I have no word for what it was.

Do you have an explanation as to why you had such an experience?

As in, what did you do to trigger it? Why doesn't everyone have such an experience?

 

[Storm]

Do you have an explanation as to why you had such an experience?

As in, what did you do to trigger it? Why doesn't everyone have such an experience?

Well, yes... there's only so much I'm willing to say on the open forum, but I'll do my best.

It came in a suicide attempt. I think my rhys tried to sever before my body had died, pulling my conscious mind into its perspective.

 

[Penumbra]

Well, yes... there's only so much I'm willing to say on the open forum, but I'll do my best.

It came in a suicide attempt. I think my rhys tried to sever before my body had died, pulling my conscious mind into its perspective.

Thank you for the very direct answer.

I'm hesitant to go further, based on the nature of that response, but why do you think it is that not everyone who attempts suicide has such an experience? Some people complete it, and some people don't complete it but don't have that response.

 

[Storm]

Thank you for the very direct answer.

I'm hesitant to go further, based on the nature of that response, but why do you think it is that not everyone who attempts suicide has such an experience? Some people complete it, and some people don't complete it but don't have that response.

I think it was a fluke, tbh. Possible, but astronomically improbable.

 

[Muri27]

Pantheism, people should try it haha (just googled it and it fits quite well how i see things).

It skips all the 'my god is better than your god, so i have the right to kill you' and goes straight to earth = god, universe = god, yes i am a god and you are a god aswell.

It's nothing more than a term to discribe the reason for our ill used brains .

 

[Riverwolf]

God exist

in your mind based on where you live in my opinion.

Live in the middle east you have muhammad
live in the USA you have a christian god

and so on and so on

But if that were the case, then shouldn't all Americans be Christian?

I grew up entirely in America, but at an early age (before I became Hindu) I adopted a more pantheistic view of God entirely on my own.

So I don't think this is very accurate.

 

[Muri27]

But if that were the case, then shouldn't all Americans be Christian?

I grew up entirely in America, but at an early age (before I became Hindu) I adopted a more pantheistic view of God entirely on my own.

So I don't think this is very accurate.

think he just points out that in most cases, people will get linked into a religion without really having a say in it and thinking about it.

 

[outhouse]

But if that were the case, then shouldn't all Americans be Christian?

yep my bad I should have said in general.

Muri27 got it,, fact is most people dont choose there religion they are born into it.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm a pantheist. My belief in God is threefold (based on Vedic literature):

Brahman
Paramatman
Bhagavan

Brahman is the Supreme Reality; the total aggregate of all existence. I can't say whether or not Brahman is independently conscious, BTW.
Paramatman is the state when a person realizes his or her unity with all things. (para = beyond, atman = self) As a note, in the Scriptures, Paramatman is most often described as "universal consciousness", and is the consciousness of God. Obviously, my beliefs on that matter are slightly different. ^_^
Bhagavan is the figure through whom such an experience may be achieved though emulation and/or listening to this figure's teachings.

All three of these ultimately fall under this verse from the Rig Veda:
"The wise refer to what is One with many names." So Brahman is perceived to be many, that state that I describe as Paramatman has a myriad of explanations and descriptions, and Bhagavan has multiple forms; some of them are historical figures, some are fictional characters, close friends, parents, etc.

This is how I've organized my beliefs at the moment, anyway. I'm still working on it. ^_^