Does Something Other Than Matter Exist?

[ChristineM]

That’s what I think. I also think these quantum particles (electrons and protons) will eventually decay.

Electrons and protons have never been observed to decay.
Neutrons however do decay into a proton, an electron, and an antineutrino.

 

[Jimmy]

Electrons and protons have never been observed to decay.
Neutrons however do decay into a proton, an electron, and an antineutrino.

They’ve never been observed to decay because they exist for a very long time.

 

[ChristineM]

They’ve never been observed to decay because they exist for a very long time.

A very, very long time, at least as long as the universe.

 

[Jimmy]

A very, very long time, at least as long as the universe.

So you agree they have an end?

 

[Jimmy]

They’ve never been observed to decay because they exist for a very long time.

Weird that a neutron decays into a proton that lasts longer. Cool

 

[ChristineM]

So you agree they have an end?

I agree the universe will probably die of heat death. After that all bets are off

 

[blü 2]

I'd say 'Yes'. Fundamental Consciousness is all that ultimately exists and matter is an illusion of Consciousness.

First, what definition of consciousness are you using?

Second, what is "Fundamental Consciousness"?

Third, apart from assertion, how would you go about demonstrating that what you say is an accurate statement about reality?

 

[Jimmy]

I agree the universe will probably die of heat death. After that all bets are off

So if they have an end, they must have a beginning but it’s strange we haven’t been able to observe their beginning anywhere and given the amount of time that they do exist I’m sure they existed before the Big Bang, so we can rule out them forming during Big Bang. Surely some of them would be dying by now. Unless of course you think all of existence has always been here and always will be.

 

[Whateverist]

I'd say 'Yes'. Fundamental Consciousness is all that ultimately exists and matter is an illusion of Consciousness.

Or perhaps matter is a phase of consciousness?

Now more long lasting!

 

[ChristineM]

So if they have an end, they must have a beginning but it’s strange we haven’t been able to observe their beginning anywhere and given the amount of time that they do exist I’m sure they existed before the Big Bang, so we can rule out them forming during Big Bang. Surely some of them would be dying by now. Unless of course you think all of existence has always been here and always will be.

Where are you going with this crap?
The beginning is known by extrapolation. The stages the plasma went through after the bb as it expanded and cooled

Who said they have an end. The universe will end, all that will be left is subatomic particles floating about shivering at absolute zero kelvin.

 

[Jimmy]

Where are you going with this crap?
The beginning is known by extrapolation. The stages the plasma went through after the bb as it expanded and cooled

Who said they have an end. The universe will end, all that will be left is subatomic particles floating about shivering at absolute zero kelvin.

Thought maybe we could learn something through dialogue. Guess not.

 

[George-ananda]

First, what definition of consciousness are you using?

Second, what is "Fundamental Consciousness"?

Third, apart from assertion, how would you go about demonstrating that what you say is an accurate statement about reality?

Webster's Dictionary is fine
1 a
: the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself
b
: the state or fact of being conscious of an external object, state, or fact

Second, what is "Fundamental Consciousness"?

ChatGPT:

Fundamental Consciousness refers to the idea of a universal, underlying awareness or intelligence that permeates all existence. This concept appears in various philosophical, spiritual, and scientific contexts, often suggesting that consciousness is not just a product of the brain but a fundamental aspect of reality itself.

Third, apart from assertion, how would you go about demonstrating that what you say is an accurate statement about reality?

It cannot be demonstrated to others, but it is held to be the direct experience of the Vedic (Hindu) masters (and other mystical traditions) that have quieted the mind and experienced the nature of consciousness at its deepest level.

 

[ChristineM]

Thought maybe we could learn something through dialogue. Guess not.

But you refuse to learn. You have these ideas that in no way correspond known cosmology and you refuse to budge from your set ideas.

This is of course fine, you can think whatever you want. Personally I'll stick with the known cosmology

 

[George-ananda]

Or perhaps matter is a phase of consciousness?

Now more long lasting!

But matter would then not be fundamental.

 

[Jimmy]

But you refuse to learn. You have these ideas that in no way correspond known cosmology and you refuse to budge from your set ideas.

This is of course fine, you can think whatever you want. Personally I'll stick with the known cosmology

I’ve learned and changed my scientific views through discussions here. Science is fascinating

 

[blü 2]

Webster's Dictionary is fine
1 a
: the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself
b
: the state or fact of being conscious of an external object, state, or fact


ChatGPT:

Fundamental Consciousness refers to the idea of a universal, underlying awareness or intelligence that permeates all existence. This concept appears in various philosophical, spiritual, and scientific contexts, often suggesting that consciousness is not just a product of the brain but a fundamental aspect of reality itself.


It cannot be demonstrated to others, but it is held to be the direct experience of the Vedic (Hindu) masters (and other mystical traditions) that have quieted the mind and experienced the nature of consciousness at its deepest level.

Thanks for the clarification.

We're doomed to disagree, I fear. In my view, consciousness is a quality of brains, arising in the complex biochemical interactions of the elements. Its physical nature is perhaps most simply illustrated by modern anesthesia (with which time is making me rather familiar).

I don't see any evidence that the universe is in any sense self-aware, or that it has the slightest concern whether humans, indeed any form of life, exists on earth or anywhere else.

But ─ chaqu'un à son goût.

 

[George-ananda]

Thanks for the clarification.

We're doomed to disagree, I fear. In my view, consciousness is a quality of brains, arising in the complex biochemical interactions of the elements. Its physical nature is perhaps most simply illustrated by modern anesthesia (with which time is making me rather familiar).

I don't see any evidence that the universe is in any sense self-aware, or that it has the slightest concern whether humans, indeed any form of life, exists on earth or anywhere else.

But ─ chaqu'un à son goût.

It doesn't seem you grasp the view Advaita Vedanta (nondual Hinduism) is describing.

Consciosuness/Brahman alone is real and fundamental. The universe is then a play/drama of Consciousness to experience.

Nothing there said anything about humans or any form of life as more than characters in the play.

During anesthesia Consciousness loses its connection to the physical body and experiences at a level beyond the mind and hence no mental experience.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Consciousness is energy reacting with matter.

Can you show how energy reacting with matter gives rise to consciousness?

 

[Jimmy]

Can you show how energy reacting with matter gives rise to consciousness?

I think it has something to do with protons electrons and neutrons

 

[ChristineM]

Can you show how energy reacting with matter gives rise to consciousness?

I am not a neuroscientist however i believe that they believe that the cerebral cortex of the brain is the “seat of consciousness,”

The brain is matter, the neurons, the thinking part of that matter, activated by electricity gives rise to consciousness.