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Does Tao=God?
- Thread starter xkatz
- Start date
swamplizard
Human
Greetings xkatz,
Not the "concept of God."
"It is older than the concept of God."
This does not mean that the Tao and God are not the same, only that one's concepts cannot define:
"The tao that can be described is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be spoken is not the eternal Name."
To allow this beyond concepts is to allow for the eternal Tao to be the undefined God.
just my boggy opinion,
best,
swampy
Not the "concept of God."
"It is older than the concept of God."
This does not mean that the Tao and God are not the same, only that one's concepts cannot define:
"The tao that can be described is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be spoken is not the eternal Name."
To allow this beyond concepts is to allow for the eternal Tao to be the undefined God.
just my boggy opinion,
best,
swampy
My opinion would be No. The tao is just a force, a direction or a flow it does not have intelligence. You are supposed to use your intelligence to see it and flow with it.
swamplizard
Human
Hey bob,
Why could not a "force" be an undefined God? If one releases the concepts that one has developed within one's mind concerning the word "god," then the term fits nicely with the eternal Tao.
just my boggy opinion,
best,
swampy
My opinion is all, my interpretation of the Tao is that it specifically stays away from God. The Tao is meant to be a guide that works for all and by giving it a specific God it won't. The Tao can be used as is by every religion in the world without effecting the practice of that religion. Once it has a God it becomes limited.
swamplizard
Human
Hey Bob,
I think it stays away from the concepts of "God" which is not the same as staying away from God. But then, that's just my bogginess seeping through.
best,
swampy
Why don't you think so?
swamplizard
Human
Hi Odion,
Yes, individual concepts relating to "God" would have an effect upon the answer. I think Tao is saying that, that can be stated is not that, that is.
best always,
swampy
If by "God" you're referring to some external entity that imposes control and organization onto a system that would otherwise be purely chaotic and nonexistent and rules over it in an authoritarian fashion of sorts, then no not at all.
A crucial part of understanding "Tao" I feel is the idea of mutual arising, that is that everything in existence arises codependent upon everything else. Nothing really arises independently from other things, it is this mutual arising of things as they actually are in an interconnected dynamic web of being which produces spontaneous order. Indeed order can only arise in this fashion as it always has. This understanding is more akin to Tao rather than the common conceptions of God.
Hexavibrongal
Soulmaster
I came to this forum to start a thread on this, and here it is at the top. It must be asked all the time.
I study several religions, but my "home" religion is Christianity and I've also spent a lot of time in 12 step, so my conceptions of God were seeded there. When I first read the Tao Te Ching, I immediately assumed that Tao was God, because the way it describes the Tao is so similar to how I had been imagining God in my meditation.
I tend to think the answer to the OP's question is yes, because despite some differences in details, the concepts are strikingly similar. But I'm guessing that Taoists probably usually assign God/Tao less personification and a subtler consciousness than a typical person from any Abrahamic religion.
Is there any concept in any other religion (Buddhism, Hinduism?) that the Tao could translate to except the concept of God?
I study several religions, but my "home" religion is Christianity and I've also spent a lot of time in 12 step, so my conceptions of God were seeded there. When I first read the Tao Te Ching, I immediately assumed that Tao was God, because the way it describes the Tao is so similar to how I had been imagining God in my meditation.
I tend to think the answer to the OP's question is yes, because despite some differences in details, the concepts are strikingly similar. But I'm guessing that Taoists probably usually assign God/Tao less personification and a subtler consciousness than a typical person from any Abrahamic religion.
Is there any concept in any other religion (Buddhism, Hinduism?) that the Tao could translate to except the concept of God?
swamplizard
Human
Hi Terry,
That's as good a concept as any. Removing the concepts however, may allow for the Tao/God equation to operate in its natural, undescribed, undefined mode.
best regards,
swampy
The Tao as I see it is flow, direction, or force that could come from a God which is why it is adaptable to all religions but it is not the God. It also could just be a natural flow, direction or force of things. The concept of a natural flow to life is prevalent in most eastern religions. Fate, Karma, and even rebirth carry this theme.
terryboy
Member
I agree, but without descriptions, Tao cannot be understood. Those who are familiar with the concept of God would think that Tao is God, some would say Tao is science, since it's the way how this universe behaves. But still I agree with you that Tao should not be described nor defined.
I feel that the Tao can be approached in certain ways as long as one doesn't mistaken these words and concepts for the Absolute Tao itself, which ultimately goes beyond conceptualization. Words and concepts are meant to be used as tools for apprehending certain underlying realizations and apprehensions. I mean after all, the Tao Te Ching and Zhuangzi are entire books written about the Tao. It goes back to the finger pointing at the moon analogy.
swamplizard
Human
Hi Tathagata,
"The flow of the universe" the instructions that direct the river of being?
Tao does not concern itself with the concepts of gods and spirits, for these concepts are imaginary. Not being concerned is not an admission of non-existence, only the awareness that one cannot conjure with the mind the description/definitions of such. One allows the mind to receive from within rather than direct the "flow."
Just my boggy rambling,
best,
swampy
Last edited by a moderator:
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
MOD POST
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted.
tumbleweed41
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted.
tumbleweed41
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Is there a reason you think that Tao is more like this than say, the Hindu concept of Brahman, or pantheism?
May I ask why you think this was probably the case?
Or, repeating an earlier question somewhat, do you think it boils down to interpretation of what 'God', is, since the term can be very, very, vague, from "the universe itself", to "a man in the clouds wielding a thunderbolt playing chess with humans"? Do you think God-concepts such as pantheism, or panentheism, or even panendeism, are equally as incompatible, and if you think they are compatible, do you think that the aforementioned Taoist figures could have been these, or were still most likely atheists?
Just looking for your opinion.