Does the bible right out mention two different parts to hell?

[Frank Goad]

Does the bible right out mention two different parts to hell?I think it does in Isaiah 14:9-17 and Luke 16:19-31.

Deuteronomy 32:22 is were I got the two different parts of hell thing.

Do you agree that the bible mentions two different parts to a literal hell?Yes or no?And why?

 

[2ndpillar]

Does the bible right out mention two different parts to hell?I think it does in Isaiah 14:9-17 and Luke 16:19-31.

Deuteronomy 32:22 is were I got the two different parts of hell thing.

Do you agree that the bible mentions two different parts to a literal hell?Yes or no?And why?

Hell/Sheol/grave, are all the same thing, the home of the dead and the "maggots" (Isaiah 14:11), where all the kings of the kingdoms of Daniel 2:35 will all go at the "end of the age" when the "LORD will have compassion on Jacob" (Isiah 14:1) and bring the nations/Gentiles into valley of judgment (Joel 2-32-32 & Joel 3:1-2), which is called the valley of judgment/Har-Magedon, the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30). Jacob will be with Abraham in the kingdom of heaven, ruled by king David from Jerusalem, with the surviving liars and murderers locked outside the gates (Revelation 22:15). Luke was the teller of other people's stories per Luke 1:1-3, and Luke 16:19-31 was a story with its roots in the Talmud, which is a compilation of the traditions of men, and this tradition meant to scare little children.

 

[1213]

Does the bible right out mention two different parts to hell?I think it does in Isaiah 14:9-17 and Luke 16:19-31.

I think the word hell is not right translation in that. It is speaking about "sheol", "hades", or grave. And it is not the same as hell, if hell means the eternal fire lake as in here:

Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

Sheol can have two parts, one for unrighteous and one for righteous. And it seems both are places where people wait for the final judgment.

 

[Muffled]

Does the bible right out mention two different parts to hell?I think it does in Isaiah 14:9-17 and Luke 16:19-31.

Deuteronomy 32:22 is were I got the two different parts of hell thing.

Do you agree that the bible mentions two different parts to a literal hell?Yes or no?And why?

I believe first of all that Hell is not mentioned in the OT.

 

[Muffled]

Hell/Sheol/grave, are all the same thing, the home of the dead and the "maggots" (Isaiah 14:11), where all the kings of the kingdoms of Daniel 2:35 will all go at the "end of the age" when the "LORD will have compassion on Jacob" (Isiah 14:1) and bring the nations/Gentiles into valley of judgment (Joel 2-32-32 & Joel 3:1-2), which is called the valley of judgment/Har-Magedon, the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30). Jacob will be with Abraham in the kingdom of heaven, ruled by king David from Jerusalem, with the surviving liars and murderers locked outside the gates (Revelation 22:15). Luke was the teller of other people's stories per Luke 1:1-3, and Luke 16:19-31 was a story with its roots in the Talmud, which is a compilation of the traditions of men, and this tradition meant to scare little children.

I believe that is false. Hell is depicted as a place of fire but the grave is not.

 

[Muffled]

I think the word hell is not right translation in that. It is speaking about "sheol", "hades", or grave. And it is not the same as hell, if hell means the eternal fire lake as in here:

Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

Sheol can have two parts, one for unrighteous and one for righteous. And it seems both are places where people wait for the final judgment.

I believe if one digs a hole and puts the body in it, then one hole is as good as another despite the Roman Catholic superstition that one has to be buried in holy ground.

 

[crossfire]

Let's see: Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus are three different Biblical expressions from the Greek scriptures that come to my mind.

 

[Frank Goad]

I believe first of all that Hell is not mentioned in the OT.

I thought it does in the king james version of the bible.

 

[1213]

I believe if one digs a hole and puts the body in it, then one hole is as good as another despite the Roman Catholic superstition that one has to be buried in holy ground.

If we believe soul exists, then it may be in a different kind of state.

 

[2ndpillar]

I believe that is false. Hell is depicted as a place of fire but the grave is not.

Paul says you will not "sleep/die", but that is false. (Jeremiah 31:30). Your "sheol"/"hell" is the grave (Is 14:11). Gehenna/hell, the trash dump outside of Jerusalem, where trash and bodies were burnt with fire, is where children were burned to the god Molech. What you have to look forward to if you reach the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) is the "furnace of fire", or in other words "Har-Megiddon", the "great tribulation", which is not where one dies, but how one will die with respect to the "valley of judgment" (Hosea 3:2). The "lake of fire" is a different animal, where death goes to die, and bodies burned after the last "resurrection" and "judgment", determined after the white thrown judgment.

Isaiah 14:11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.’

 

[Kathryn]

I believe if one digs a hole and puts the body in it, then one hole is as good as another despite the Roman Catholic superstition that one has to be buried in holy ground.

According to the Roman Catholic church, one can choose any burial spot or so can a family for that matter, if the deceased person didn't make any sort of statement known.

Christian Burial

Burial, CHRISTIAN, the interment of a deceased person with ecclesiastical rites in consecrated ground. The Jews and most of the nations of antiquity buried thei...

www.catholic.com

 

[Muffled]

I thought it does in the king james version of the bible.

I believe translators have a bad habit of equating the grave with hell. That comes from Norse myth not Christianity.

 

[Muffled]

If we believe soul exists, then it may be in a different kind of state.

I believe the soul is buried and the spirit can go where God wills.

 

[Muffled]

Paul says you will not "sleep/die", but that is false. (Jeremiah 31:30). Your "sheol"/"hell" is the grave (Is 14:11). Gehenna/hell, the trash dump outside of Jerusalem, where trash and bodies were burnt with fire, is where children were burned to the god Molech. What you have to look forward to if you reach the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) is the "furnace of fire", or in other words "Har-Megiddon", the "great tribulation", which is not where one dies, but how one will die with respect to the "valley of judgment" (Hosea 3:2). The "lake of fire" is a different animal, where death goes to die, and bodies burned after the last "resurrection" and "judgment", determined after the white thrown judgment.

Isaiah 14:11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.’

I believe the lake of fire is what we usually are referring to when we say "hell." I believe being burned up on earth is a terror but it isn't hell. Gehenna is most likely a metaphor for hell since it is reputed that the fire does not go out.

 

[Apostle John]

Christian scholars usually talk about there being different compartments in hell, giving the impression there’s many forms of existence, not just two. I believe I’ve worked it out including the Luke 16 account but will only say hell is a realm that is a literal, eternal destination open to Biblical interpretation.

 

[2ndpillar]

I believe the lake of fire is what we usually are referring to when we say "hell." I believe being burned up on earth is a terror but it isn't hell. Gehenna is most likely a metaphor for hell since it is reputed that the fire does not go out.

Gehenna is the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where they once burned children to Moloch and also threw dead bodies. Hell, or Sheol, is the resting place of the dead, the grave. The "lake of fire" produces torment day and night forever and ever (Rev 20:10) and comes after "Satan is released from prison" (Rev 20:7) at the end of the millennium (a thousand years) (Rev 20:4). As for "the day of the LORD", "Har-Megidon", that would be the "furnace of fire", which is at the "end of the age" (Mt 13:30) when those "who commit lawlessness" will weep and gnash their teeth, which makes one think that they have teeth to gnash (Mt 13:39-42).

 

[Muffled]

Gehenna is the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where they once burned children to Moloch and also threw dead bodies. Hell, or Sheol, is the resting place of the dead, the grave. The "lake of fire" produces torment day and night forever and ever (Rev 20:10) and comes after "Satan is released from prison" (Rev 20:7) at the end of the millennium (a thousand years) (Rev 20:4). As for "the day of the LORD", "Har-Megidon", that would be the "furnace of fire", which is at the "end of the age" (Mt 13:30) when those "who commit lawlessness" will weep and gnash their teeth, which makes one think that they have teeth to gnash (Mt 13:39-42).

I agree that translators have used the word Hell for the grave but when people usually talk about Hell they are talking about the lake of fire.

 

[2ndpillar]

I agree that translators have used the word Hell for the grave but when people usually talk about Hell they are talking about the lake of fire.

I think the "many" (Mt 7:13), unfamiliar with the actual text, may fall into that category. As no one is thrown into the "lake of fire" until after the great white throne judgment (Rev 20), that position of being buried in the "lake of fire" is a bit ridiculous, especially when they have to come out of the grave/sheol to be judged. But if you watch a Zombie, as the walking dead, they can walk, but their cognative abilities seem to be impaired. Possibly they drank some of the Kool Aide from the cup of the hypocrisy of the Pharisee.

 

[Clear]

Hi @Frank Goad

@Frank Goad asked : "Do you agree that the bible mentions two different parts to a literal hell?Yes or no?And why?" (Opening Post)

This question you bring up is insightful and interesting. The answer may depend upon who is interpreting the biblical text and what time period we are speaking of since the answer to that question will depend partly upon interpretation and upon time period (e.g. ancient Christianity vs later Christian movements)


1) HADES AS “THE PLACE IN THE MIDDLE”

It’s always been apparent to historians of early Judeo-Christian textual traditions that Hades often means the place between death and judgment/resurrection. Early Judeo-christian textual descriptions of Christian belief are often disorienting for individuals who start to study them, partly because there are so many terms that are used for the same principle. For example, descriptions of the “intermediate” world between mortality and Final Judgment is described by many terms in early texts.

Both texts and translators of various early texts use many words to refer to this place such as SHEOL - HADES - SPIRIT WORLD, PARADISE, sometimes "HELL" is used. Occasionally, it is only the context that saves us from confusion in terms. For example, instead of Hades, other terms have also been used to describe this same place in different contexts.

The description that “paradise is in between the corruptible and the incorruptible.” (2 Enoch 8:5) indicates the ancient meaning for Paradise which moderns often forget. (i.e. it refers to the gardens OUTSIDE of the kings castle, and not inside his dwelling). The different terms for the same place or principle create confusing contexts and interpretations.

For example, this ancient meaning of the word “Paradise” changes the meaning of Jesus promise to Dymas (the thief crucified beside Jesus) that he would “be with me in paradise” (luke 23:43). In this context, It was not “heaven” Dymas the thief was promised, but it was “paradise”, which, in this case was also the place between corruptible mortality and judgement.

In a similar context, it was said, “ Either he will be in this world or in the resurrection or in the places in the middle.” (The gospel of Phillip) All who leave mortality through death enter the place in the middle, i.e. Sheol, hades, spirit world, paradise, etc. (or whatever other term a text or person uses)

The “complainer” Ezra also uses the same term when he remarks to Jesus in a vision, regarding the end of his (the prophet Ezras’) life : “Bewail me, all holy and just ones, because I have entered the bowl of Hades.” (Apoc of Ez 7:1). The glorified Jesus reminds Ezra that he himself had been there as well : “Hear, Ezra, my beloved one. I, being immortal, received a cross, I tasted vinegar and gall, I was set down in a grave. And I raised up my elect ones and I summoned up Adam from Hades (The Greek Apocalypse of Ezra 6:26 & 7:1-4).

This refers to Jesus descensus as a spirit into this middle place while his body remained in the tomb before resurrection. But more on this later.



2) ALL WHO DIE GO TO THIS SPIRIT WORLD (THE PLACE IN THE MIDDLE)

In this ancient Christian theology, all souls, including the Patriarchs and prophets, upon dying, have their spirits placed into this spirit world. Quote : “do you not know that all those who (spring) from Adam and Eve die? And not one of the prophets escaped death and not one of those who reign has been immortal. Not one of the forefathers has escaped the mystery of death. All have died, all have departed into Hades, all have been gathered by the sickle of Death.” (TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension A) 8:9; 7)

“ And Death said, “Hear, righteous Abraham, for seven ages I ravage the world and I lead everyone down into Hades – kings and rulers, rich and poor, slaves and free I send into the depth of Hades (T of Abr (rec A) 19:7) .

“For Death deceived Abraham. And he kissed his hand and immediately his soul cleaved to the hand of Death....13...the undefiled voice of the God and Father came speaking thus : “Take, then my friend Abraham into Paradise, where there are the tents of my righteous ones and (where) the mansions of my old ones, Isaac and jacob, are in his bosom... (TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension A) 20:9,13-15) Though he uses the word, "paradise", it is this place in the middle that he is actually referring to.

None of these specific references refer to a "Hell" that individuals may be sent to after the Judgment, and these specific references to Hades referred to a name for this "spirit world"; i.e. the "place in the middle" between death and before Judgement.



3) CONDITIONS IN HADES VARY ACCORDING TO THE MORAL CHARACTER OF THE PERSON WHO INHABITS IT

Another point of confusion regarding Hades is that the experience there is NOT the same for all individuals since individuals are divided according to their degree of righteousness. For the righteous, it was pleasant, for those who were evil, it was a prison of sorts. This partly explains it's association with punishment....

Thus the ancient texts describe it differently according to who is sent there (i.e the righteous vs the unrighteous). Since the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage of sorts, could be referred to as a "prison" in early textual references.


In describing Sheol, Enoch is shown in his vision that this middle place has separate “areas” for individuals to be “assigned to”. In his vision, Enoch asks the angel : ”For what reason is one separated from the other? And he replied and said unto me, “These three have been made in order that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And in the manner in which the souls of the righteous are separated (by) this spring of water with light upon it, in like manner the sinners are set apart when they die and are buried in the earth and judgment has not been executed upon them in their lifetime,... until the great day of judgment...They will bind them there forever–even from the beginning of the world. ....Such has been made for the souls of the people who are not righteous, but sinners and perfect criminals; they shall be together with (other) criminals who are like them. (1Enoch 22:9-13)

Since the righteous are with the righteous, they seem to adapt to a calm existence, the unrighteous, being grouped with others of their type and having increased awareness of the result of their moral choices become unhappy in their regrets and distress. And, Sheol itself also had a “middle place” according to this ancient model.

In Abraham’s description of Hades, he asks the angel : “Is one who is unable to enter through the strait gate unable to enter into life?...4 And Michael answered...you will enter through it unhindered, as will all those who are like you.”...And when they went, they found an angel holding in his hand one soul of a woman from among the six myriads, because he found (her) sins evenly balanced with all her works, and they were neither in distress nor at rest, but in an intermediate place.. ( TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension B) 9:1-10)

The point is that for the righteous, this world of spirits was not particularly unpleasant but for the unrighteous it was a place of some distress. It is this variable nature of Hades which allows it to acquire multiple names such as "paradise" AND "prison". I think the ancient Christian model where this world of spirits (Hades/Sheol/Hell/the Grave, etc) is more rational and intuitive than the later theoretical models produced by many of the later Christian movements.

In any case, i hope your own spirit journey with it's discoveries are wonderful @Frank Goad

Clear
τωσετωω

 

[dybmh]

@Frank Goad ,

I would be wary of people who use apochrypha to define anything in the bible. These are books whose authors are unknown, have been amended and changed over the years, and are not as ancient as their supporters claim.