Does the Judeo-Christian Bible say Jesus is God?

[YeshuaRedeemed]

My main goal of this post is to provide a place for a civilized interfaith discussion on whether Jesus is God. Since I am making the positive claim that Jesus is God, I will have to provide evidence for my position.Here goes:
A video that is your option to watch:

The preceeding video discusses the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek the Bible was written in. Jesus means Jehovah Is Salvation, and His Hebrew name is Yeshua, the Hebrew word for Salvation, referenced here from Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible: Genesis 1:1 (KJV) How can Jesus be Salvation, if He is not Yahweh God? My position is that He has to be God to be able to pay for salvation to those that receive Him. More evidence:
An article from Bible Questions Answered: Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?
From the article: Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?" Answer: The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
A Messianic Rabbi on Jesus being God:

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
How can Jesus be God, when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man or a son of man?
Is Jesus God in the flesh? Why is it important that Jesus is God in the flesh?

 

[RabbiO]

Since this is the second time you've indicated that you are looking to have an interfaith conversation on A similar question, perhaps it would helpful if you did, indeed, define your use of the term "interfaith".

If by "interfaith" you mean various Christian denominations like Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Southern Baptists etc., that is one thing. If you mean Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, Wiccans etc. that is another thing.

As I mentioned on your other thread, the Hebrew scriptures, say nothing about Jesus, let alone that Jesus is G-d. I'm not going to debate that and you are certainly free to believe otherwise. That subject has discussed and re-discussed numerous times already.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Since this is the second time you've indicated that you are looking to have an interfaith conversation on A similar question, perhaps it would helpful if you did, indeed, define your use of the term "interfaith".

If by "interfaith" you mean various Christian denominations like Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Southern Baptists etc., that is one thing. If you mean Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, Wiccans etc. that is another thing.

As I mentioned on your other thread, the Hebrew scriptures, say nothing about Jesus, let alone that Jesus is G-d. I'm not going to debate that and you are certainly free to believe otherwise. That subject has discussed and re-discussed numerous times already.

Oops. What I mean by interfaith is that my post is not just for Christians. I want everyone to be a part of this debate that wants to post here. I should have been more clear, and welcome your inpute.

 

[Tumah]

Oops. What I mean by interfaith is that my post is not just for Christians. I want everyone to be a part of this debate that wants to post here. I should have been more clear, and welcome your inpute.

I've found that in general people are simply not interested in watching videos, especially when the video is someone else making an argument for you. How about if you try spelling out your argument, so that people have something to respond to?

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

I've found that in general people are simply not interested in watching videos, especially when the video is someone else making an argument for you. How about if you try spelling out your argument, so that people have something to respond to?

I'm legally blind, so reading can be a struggle. I am sorry if I offend.

 

[metis]

The concept of the Trinity has been well discussed on many threads, but let me just say that this concept can be better understood if one understands the Aristotle concept of "essence". See Essence - Wikipedia

 

[RabbiO]

@YeshuaBought -

You've actually focused on two separate issues. The first is contained in the title of your thread - Does somebody's scripture say that Jesus is G-d. I have already stated that there is nothing about Jesus in Hebrew scripture. So the issue is whether Christian scripture says that Jesus is G-d.

Even if Christian scripture says Jesus is G-d, it does not necessarily follow that Jesus is G-d, which the other issue/question that you want to pursue. Simply because Parson Weems in his early biography of George Washington told a story of little George chopping down a cherry tree and then owning up to it because he could not tell a lie, does not make the story true.

Frankly, other than Christianity, I cannot think of any religion that accepts the notion of Jesus being G-d. Is there some reason you think there might be?

 

[Rival]

I cannot think of any religion that accepts the notion of Jesus being G-d.

Don't the Baha'is call him a 'manifestation'?

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

@YeshuaBought -

You've actually focused on two separate issues. The first is contained in the title of your thread - Does somebody's scripture say that Jesus is G-d. I have already stated that there is nothing about Jesus in Hebrew scripture. So the issue is whether Christian scripture says that Jesus is G-d.

Even if Christian scripture says Jesus is G-d, it does not necessarily follow that Jesus is G-d, which the other issue/question that you want to pursue. Simply because Parson Weems in his early biography of George Washington told a story of little George chopping down a cherry tree and then owning up to it because he could not tell a lie, does not make the story true.

Frankly, other than Christianity, I cannot think of any religion that accepts the notion of Jesus being G-d. Is there some reason you think there might be?

i did not mean to offend you, just to share my religious opinion. Here:

is one more video, as well as this:

video. I also include this: Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 9:6 - Complete Jewish Bible link from a Jewish Bible translation. One of the videos is by Steve Denoon, a Messianic Rabbi.

 

[Twilight Hue]

My main goal of this post is to provide a place for a civilized interfaith discussion on whether Jesus is God. Since I am making the positive claim that Jesus is God, I will have to provide evidence for my position.Here goes:
A video that is your option to watch:

The preceeding video discusses the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek the Bible was written in. Jesus means Jehovah Is Salvation, and His Hebrew name is Yeshua, the Hebrew word for Salvation, referenced here from Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible: Genesis 1:1 (KJV) How can Jesus be Salvation, if He is not Yahweh God? My position is that He has to be God to be able to pay for salvation to those that receive Him. More evidence:
An article from Bible Questions Answered: Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?
From the article: Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?" Answer: The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
A Messianic Rabbi on Jesus being God:

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
How can Jesus be God, when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man or a son of man?
Is Jesus God in the flesh? Why is it important that Jesus is God in the flesh?

It's pretty obvious when reading into the Bible that Jesus is a demigod within the Christian mythos.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

It's pretty obvious when reading into the Bible that Jesus is a demigod within the Christian mythos.

He is God in Human flesh: Bible Gateway passage: John 1:14 - King James Version did you review all of the evidence I have provided? I can get some more if you like, just tell me what you want me to prove.

 

[Twilight Hue]

He is God in Human flesh: Bible Gateway passage: John 1:14 - King James Version did you review all of the evidence I have provided? I can get some more if you like, just tell me what you want me to prove.

Sounds like a demigod to me.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Sounds like a demigod to me.

He is either God, or he is not, in my religious opinion.

 

[Twilight Hue]

He is either God, or he is not, in my religious opinion.

Jesus just doesn't qualify as a god. It seems the Trinity doctrine was developed later in order to get around that. Even when I was a Christian, I had trouble wrapping my head around that for which Jesus being a God made no sense. During that time I always went with Jesus being a Son of God, but not a God givin the way Jesus was portrayed as talking to God and referring people to God throughout the biblical narrative.

Feel free to resurrect an old thread I had if you feel you want to extrapolate further.

Jesus is actually a demigod, born by a God and a human.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Jesus just doesn't qualify as a god. It seems the Trinity doctrine was developed later in order to get around that. Even when I was a Christian, I had trouble wrapping my head around that for which Jesus being a God made no sense. During that time I always went with Jesus being a Son of God, but not a God givin the way Jesus was portrayed as talking to God and referring people to God throughout the biblical narrative.

Feel free to resurrect an old thread I had if you feel you want to extrapolate further.

Jesus is actually a demigod, born by a God and a human.

What evidence can you provide that contradicts my evidence, please? Why can't Yeshua/Jesus be God given the exhaustive evidence I provided for you and others to read? Here: Hebrews 1:
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

I found proof that church fathers were Trinitarian.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What evidence can you provide that contradicts my evidence, please? Why can't Yeshua/Jesus be God given the exhaustive evidence I provided for you and others to read? Here: Hebrews 1:
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Well it's not really evidence.

It's the book of Hebrews by which some Christians attributed to the authorship of Paul. There also has been some scholarly inclination that it was Priscilla. Possibly a book written for the Roman Church and not Christians exclusively.

I don't think it's what you would call exhaustive evidence because it's unsubstantiated material not to mention written well after the fact from the time of Jesus's birth to his eventual crucifixion.
In short , this is essentially Pauline Christianity of which I think the Book of Hebrews is an added on and redacted work that was conceived and brought about by later Christians.

More to the point, there are too many narratives in the Bible that can be pointed out such as Jesus's birth from Mary cementing the human aspect of Jesus from which there's no way of getting around the fact that he would easily fall under the designation of demigod. On par with many of the Gods portrayed in the Greek and Roman Pantheon of the time who were born of humans, for which Jesus is really not much different overall with the exception of Jesus being made vulnerable , mortal, and more focused on his human side as opposed to inmortal attributes that comes with divine power that would make Jesus a full-fledged God.

You always end up with the acknowledgement by which Jesus is portrayed as possessing the character traits of divine and human qualities makes it an easy fit with the identification as being a demigod.

Even if you can make an argument where Jesus would be entirely god, with no bloodline or connection with Mary to speak of, it would have been impossible for Jesus to even be considered as messiah as his lineage to David would be obviously severed, though it can be argued that being not the father of Joseph but of God, Jesus wouldn't be be qualified as a son of David anyways if there is no human element. That would also make the birth by Mary pointless.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Well it's not really evidence.

It's the book of Hebrews by which some Christians attributed to the authorship of Paul. There also has been some scholarly inclination that it was Priscilla. Possibly a book written for the Roman Church and not Christians exclusively.

I don't think it's what you would call exhaustive evidence because it's unsubstantiated material not to mention written well after the fact from the time of Jesus's birth to his eventual crucifixion.
In short , this is essentially Pauline Christianity of which I think the Book of Hebrews is an added on and redacted work that was conceived and brought about by later Christians.

More to the point, there are too many narratives in the Bible that can be pointed out such as Jesus's birth from Mary cementing the human aspect of Jesus from which there's no way of getting around the fact that he would easily fall under the designation of demigod. On par with many of the Gods portrayed in the Greek and Roman Pantheon of the time who were born of humans, for which Jesus is really not much different overall with the exception of Jesus being made vulnerable , mortal, and more focused on his human side as opposed to inmortal attributes that comes with divine power that would make Jesus a full-fledged God.

You always end up with the acknowledgement by which Jesus is portrayed as possessing the character traits of divine and human qualities makes it an easy fit with the identification as being a demigod.

Even if you can make an argument where Jesus would be entirely god, with no bloodline or connection with Mary to speak of, it would have been impossible for Jesus to even be considered as messiah as his lineage to David would be obviously severed, though it can be argued that being not the father of Joseph but of God, Jesus wouldn't be be qualified as a son of David anyways if there is no human element. That would also make the birth by Mary pointless.

*Well it's not really evidence.* Prove it.

 

[RabbiO]

@YeshuaBought -

The Complete Jewish Bible is many things, but Jewish is not one of them.

You seem to assume that someone who lays claim to the title of Messianic rabbi actually is a legitimate rabbi. Messianic rabbis are not rabbis, they are Christian ministers.

I know it is not the topic of this thread, but I'd be curious to know if you have any actual knowledge of Judaism.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

@YeshuaBought -

The Complete Jewish Bible is many things, but Jewish is not one of them.

You seem to assume that someone who lays claim to the title of Messianic rabbi actually is a legitimate rabbi. Messianic rabbis are not rabbis, they are Christian ministers.

I know it is not the topic of this thread, but I'd be curious to know if you have any actual knowledge of Judaism.

No true Scotsman fallacy. I have prsented plenty of evidence, now it's your turn.