The data and experience verify that blood and blood products save lives. The physician who orders the blood transfusion doesn't profit from the decision.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Don't Blame Me For Not Accepting Jesus
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
The data and experience verify that blood and blood products save lives. The physician who orders the blood transfusion doesn't profit from the decision.
Oh dear, one of us certainly needs to get around a little more.
Peter and Paul were apostles (meaning "ones sent forth") so their primary commission from Jesus was to preach. But the 70 sent out by Jesus were not apostles, they were Jewish disciples and Jesus sent them out to preach the kingdom message to their own countrymen first.
Luke 10:1-2:
"After this, the Lord appointed 70 others, and He sent them ahead of Him in pairs to every town and place where He Himself was about to go. 2 He told them: “The harvest is abundant, but the workers are few. Therefore, pray to the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest."
This is the "great commission" and it applied to all Christians, not just those who volunteered as missionaries. More and more "workers" were needed as more people responded to the good news. These Jewish Christians were sent out to their own people; those who worshipped the same God.....and then after their initial disappointing response, God sent them out to the Gentiles, with Peter being the one sent to the household of Cornelius. (This is reflected in Jesus illustration recorded at Luke 16:14-24)
If you go to our website, you will see that we have literature available in hundreds of languages and dialects, which is accessible to pretty much all of the world's population. We preach in the most inhospitable places on earth...in the mountains, the jungles, in the remote villages, by boat, by 4WD, on foot and by plane......we preach the good news in their own languages and many are responding appreciably to our efforts. But something just as important, is preaching to our neighbors...those who live in our local area. We have our mobile literature stands in all the busy places so that everyone knows who we are. We call door to door to find any "sheep" who may be wondering about current world conditions and what the future holds for us.
When was the last time church members were asked to go door to door and preach, like Jesus did? They all seem to see this as someone else's job. Can you tell me why?
Every single Witness of Jehovah is a preacher....even our children. We see that work as our privilege and responsibility because lives are at stake. (Ezekiel 3:17-21) This responsibility is heavy because our own lives are at stake here as well. We are accountable for any neglect on our part.
So who are really fulfilling the commission? When I was part of the church, I didn't even know I had a responsiility.
So how are you personally fulfilling Isaiah 55:10...if I may ask?
My, you do need to do a little more studying. Jesus went to some houses but not all and the Apostles were disciples before they were Apostles.
We go from house to house too... but you all don't go out and preach the Gospel to the masses. Where are the Evangelists too?
And you DID reject the messages that came through your TV. Isaiah 55:10 the Word that comes like rain and snow is happening through satellites. But you are welcome to reject the messages that are being beamed into your home and across the world. You decide whether His peace will remain in your house.
Maybe I'll just dust my feet!
Last edited:
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I believe it goes "for god so loved the world," not "god only loves a few of ya."
Aye, he could do as Homer Simpson did...push a crayon up his nose & into his brain
until he finds faith. But noOOoooOOooOOoo....Skwim rejected this path to God!
Skwim
Veteran Member
Last edited:
I never said it translated to just JW's. Labels do not impress the judge. It is living up to the meaning of the word "Christian".
JW's are individually just as prone to hypocrisy as anyone else. It isn't what you call yourself......its what Jesus calls you that matters.
I don't recall Jesus ever advocating bloodshed...do you?
Christians were hated in the Roman world for practicing their religious beliefs. They kept separate from the world because Christ told them to. It didn't make them popular. (John 15:19)
In a climate of rebellion, they refussed to join the zealots in plotting against Rome. So they did not hold political office, and they refused military service. As a result, they “were represented as men dead to the world, and useless for all affairs of life,” according to historian Augustus Neander.
Ambassadors do not meddle in the politics of the nation to which they are sent. Their diplomacy is in keeping peaceful relations with their own nation and the one to which they were sent. Christians are to be "peacemakers"....not "peacekeepers". Do you understand the difference?
I can't recall Jesus ever telling us not to become involved in the commercial aspects of life. He told his disciples to buy food as I recall. He was a carpenter...the son of a carpenter, so like Paul who was a tentmaker, they earned a living by providing services to others. The part of the world that they were not to become part of was mainly political. It was the political elements of satan's world that tried to interfere with a Christian's efforts to preach the good news and to refrain from shedding human blood in their polituical power struggles. It is even today. Didn't Jesus say that if we 'lived by the sword, we would die by the sword'.
I believe that it is what comes from a person's heart that comes out of their mouth. I'll let Jesus judge that too.
The trinity was a fourth century adoption from paganism. Google pagan trinities and see where they come from.
There is no trinity in the Bible. There is no trinity in any of the Abrahamic faiths.....its only found in Christendom.
The Bible translators were fully indoctrinated with false teachings well before the Bible was ever available to the common man in his own language. Those doctrines were woven into scripture by one who is a master deceiver.
There is no trinity....no immortal soul......and no hellfire in Christ's teachings. You can't see it but all of those doctrines are designed to misrepresent the God of Jesus Christ. It means that you worship a completely different God to the one that I do. Sadly, we shall soon see which one is true and which one is a fabrication.
Me too. If there is correcting to be done, he will do it. Of that we have no doubt, and are in agreement. (Jeremiah 17:9)
Olinda
Member
@Deeje , it's very disappointing to see that once again, instead of refuting the corrections to your wild claims on what that video actually says, you just cease to post... and after a break, repeat the same wild claims on another thread.
You have absolutely no support for this assertion. Even the title of your own video says "Blood transfusions save lives".
Once again, with feeling....the cytoscan was of a single patient. There was no information on other problems which could affect the result. The doctors never claimed that this was what happens with all or even many transfusions. They only said that more research was needed.
That is not what the doctors said in the video. They actually said it should be considered more carefully before being prescribed. As should any invasive procedure.
Here you are trying to use anecdote from an obviously biased group as evidence. Pity help us if we tried that in a scientific environment!
You're a fine one to talk! Now let's see if you can refute this and support your own position, or if you repeat the "run away, pop up elsewhere" behaviour.
Last edited:
Who is "we"? I see that there are some local isolated churches in the USA that do attempt to preach door to door....but JW's are an international brotherhood who do so in all nations as far as is humanly possible. We preach one united message in every nation, not a mish-mash of conflicting messages from people we never see.
Please go to our website and see for yourself how extensive our preaching work is. JW.ORG
"Evangelists"? Are you serious? Who is more evangelical than Jehovah's Witnesses? Who is more disliked for being so? (John 15:18-21)
LOL....we have satelites that work for us too.....but I don't see Isaiah 55:10 as pertaining to satelites in any way.
Lets look at that verse in context....your selective quoting gives a false impression IMO.
Isaiah 55:7-11:
"let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts;
let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven
and do not return there but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."
It is highlighting the surety of God's word and purpose...just as dependable as the rain cycle that Jewish farmers depended on for their crops. No satelites.
But you are welcome to reject the messages that are being beamed into your home and across the world. You decide whether His peace will remain in your house.
Maybe I'll just dust my feet!
You are welcome to your view also. I have peace now that was never in my life as a church member.
I shall dust my feet also and I wish you nothing but peace.
God loves the world of mankind generally because he was responsible for creating them....but he hates the ones who disobey his very specific commands.
If you want to quote scripture, please make sure that you have the whole picture....
Hebrews 10:26-31:
"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition. Anyone who has disregarded the Law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three. 29 How much greater punishment do you think a person will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God and who has regarded as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt? 30 For we know the One who said: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again: “Jehovah will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
Does that round things off for you?
If you do your research you will find that those who advocate the supposed benefits of blood transfusions also have to sneak in the facts on the damage they cause to a patient's health.
Like this quote from http://ispub.com/IJEICM/9/2/4759
"Allogeneic blood transfusions are a necessary staple of any diverse cardiac surgery program. Nevertheless, the scientific literature is replete with irrefutable data showing that allogeneic transfusions, although at times an absolute necessity, are in fact detrimental to short, intermediate, and long term outcomes, increased infection rates, prolonged ventilator times, disease transmission, allergic reactions, cross match errors, lung injury, increased mortality 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 and are very expensive (Tables 1 and 2). It is estimated that a single unit of packed red blood cells (PRBC's), with an acquisition cost of two hundred U.S. dollars ($200.00) has an actual cost of between one thousand six hundred ($1,600.00) and two thousand four hundred dollars ($2,400.00) to transfuse it to the patient 9 . This actual cost includes all of the direct and variable personnel costs (Figures 1 and 2) along with the increased costs to any one patient's hospital stay as a result of a transfusion-associated morbidity (Figure 3). The acquisition cost for a unit of aphaeresed platelets is above five hundred U.S. dollars ($500.00 Table 2). Based on the formula used for PRBC's the actual cost of platelets is also incredibly higher. In addition, platelets have also been associated with serious adverse events in cardiac surgery 10".
This is data relating to a single unit of blood. Often patients have multiple units.....this is a very lucrative business and from our expereince, blood is seldom necessary to save a life. We are living proof that blood is not necessary to save anyone.
Last edited:
I'm a retired physician - an internist. I don't take scientific advice from the religious. I'll rely on my studies and experience instead, which contradict you.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Instead of saying "Christians", shouldn't it be, the elite, the anointed class of Christians? They're the only ones with a heavenly hope, and the only ones who are "ambassadors" of Christ, the rest are mere "envoys".
*** w08 8/15 p. 16 par. 19 Honor Jehovah by Displaying Dignity ***
19 Dignity is displayed by anointed Christians, who are “ambassadors substituting for Christ.” (2 Cor. 5:20) The “other sheep,” who loyally support them, are dignified envoys for the Messianic Kingdom.
Skwim
Veteran Member
The Internet Journal of Emergency and Intensive Care Medicine? You've got to be kidding. But I know you're not, you're just trying to pass of a vanity press article as significant.
A little bit about your source:
abstract on ISPUB
This review critically analyzes Internet Science Publications, a one-
man operation that falsely claims to be “one of the world's largest
online medical publishers.” The publisher's site is merely a deceptive
endeavor aimed at making money, for it is replete with advertising on
every page, including ads for an anti-aging tonic the owner markets
himself. Exploiting the author-pays model of Open Access publish-
ing, Internet Science Publications charges authors upon acceptance
of an article, essentially functioning as a scholarly vanity press. The
analysis includes a look at libraries' policies of including records for
this (and similar) publishers' e-serials in library online catalogs and
questions the practice of promoting low-quality works vanity publish-
ers make available.
Although ISPUB purports to be a scholarly publisher, much of its
content appears elementary and unsophisticated, especially when an-
alyzed in the context of medical publishing in general. One example
is the article, “A 48-Year-Old Man with an Excruciating Pain in His
Left Knee” that appears in The Internet Journal of Rehabilitation In fact,
this article doesn't appear to be a research article at all, for it has
discussion questions at the end of it.
critical evaluation
This site is a one-man operation that is set up to make money. The
ubiquitous advertising present on the site, including ads for an anti-
aging potion marketed by the publisher, the incorporation of an Ama-
zon.com affiliate Web site within the site, and the general low quality
of articles and their presentation make the site a poor, unprofessional,
and even offensive attempt at scholarly publishing.
It's clear that this publishing operation is a mere hobby of its owner,
Dr. Wenker, whose entrepreneurial efforts ramify in many directions.
Internet Science Publications is an illegitimate and deceptive scien-
tific publisher. The publisher falls into the category of what we have
previously termed “Predatory Open-Access Publishers.”
Many of its journals lack authentic editorial boards, though the publisher
claims that all of its journals are peer reviewed. Much of the site's content
originates in the Third World and lacks sophistication; it appears that
nothing is rejected
Internet Scientific Publications
Review Scores Composite: ⋆ 1/8 [one and an eighth star]
The maximum number of stars in each category is 5.
Content:⋆ [one star]
Many journal titles have only a few articles, and many of the articles are short, simple works that add little value to their
fields.
User Interface/Searchability:⋆[one star]
Very little thought is given to searching. There is only a Google custom search box and an A-Z list of the journal titles.
Pricing: ⋆1/2 [one an a half stars]
Among gold, Open Access publishers, the author fees ISPUB charges are on the low side. The publisher charges for correc-
tions to published articles, a practice that discourages making corrections.
Contract Options:⋆ [one star]
Nonstandard. The publisher retains copyright on all works, even though they are Open Access
source
This review critically analyzes Internet Science Publications, a one-
man operation that falsely claims to be “one of the world's largest
online medical publishers.” The publisher's site is merely a deceptive
endeavor aimed at making money, for it is replete with advertising on
every page, including ads for an anti-aging tonic the owner markets
himself. Exploiting the author-pays model of Open Access publish-
ing, Internet Science Publications charges authors upon acceptance
of an article, essentially functioning as a scholarly vanity press. The
analysis includes a look at libraries' policies of including records for
this (and similar) publishers' e-serials in library online catalogs and
questions the practice of promoting low-quality works vanity publish-
ers make available.
Although ISPUB purports to be a scholarly publisher, much of its
content appears elementary and unsophisticated, especially when an-
alyzed in the context of medical publishing in general. One example
is the article, “A 48-Year-Old Man with an Excruciating Pain in His
Left Knee” that appears in The Internet Journal of Rehabilitation In fact,
this article doesn't appear to be a research article at all, for it has
discussion questions at the end of it.
critical evaluation
This site is a one-man operation that is set up to make money. The
ubiquitous advertising present on the site, including ads for an anti-
aging potion marketed by the publisher, the incorporation of an Ama-
zon.com affiliate Web site within the site, and the general low quality
of articles and their presentation make the site a poor, unprofessional,
and even offensive attempt at scholarly publishing.
It's clear that this publishing operation is a mere hobby of its owner,
Dr. Wenker, whose entrepreneurial efforts ramify in many directions.
Internet Science Publications is an illegitimate and deceptive scien-
tific publisher. The publisher falls into the category of what we have
previously termed “Predatory Open-Access Publishers.”
Many of its journals lack authentic editorial boards, though the publisher
claims that all of its journals are peer reviewed. Much of the site's content
originates in the Third World and lacks sophistication; it appears that
nothing is rejected
Internet Scientific Publications
Review Scores Composite: ⋆ 1/8 [one and an eighth star]
The maximum number of stars in each category is 5.
Content:⋆ [one star]
Many journal titles have only a few articles, and many of the articles are short, simple works that add little value to their
fields.
User Interface/Searchability:⋆[one star]
Very little thought is given to searching. There is only a Google custom search box and an A-Z list of the journal titles.
Pricing: ⋆1/2 [one an a half stars]
Among gold, Open Access publishers, the author fees ISPUB charges are on the low side. The publisher charges for correc-
tions to published articles, a practice that discourages making corrections.
Contract Options:⋆ [one star]
Nonstandard. The publisher retains copyright on all works, even though they are Open Access
source
In other words, GIGO.
.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
I don't understand that logic, the way I see it is,
Satan has his judges, Jesus ought to have His, satan has his lawyers, Jesus ought to have His, satan has his senators, Jesus ought to have His, satan has his doctors, Jesus ought to have His.
This is what Jesus meant about, "not being part of the world",
1 John 2:16 (ESV Strong's) 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Isn't that what every rank and file witness does? Since they are not under the covenant of His blood? Only the anointed of witnesses are under the covenant of His blood, that's why all rank and file witness just pass the emblems around without partaking because they are not under that covenant.
The Holy Bottom Burp
Active Member
Meh, I'm not a greedy man, its just money!
Same as yours I suspect; people, especially the ones who are nearest and dearest. We are intensely social animals, in the respect that we need people or we go insane, or at least go a bit "odd". Put a person alone with "god" on a desert island and he or she will probably end up talking to the coconuts within a few months, take "god" away from a person (i.e. their religious beliefs) but leave him/her with people and guess what? The coconuts remain silent (a bit like god!).
Sure, but I sense the hand of the Watchtower behind every sentence...
You do make me chuckle Deeje! Like religion conspiracy theories tend to be based on the scantest of evidence, you'll never get me going down that road!That quote doesn't answer the question though Deeje, why does god bother with his band of 'chosen people' anyway? Is the deity lonely? Is the deity a megalomaniac demanding worship from the faithful on pain of death? He wants to make that small band happy, and doesn't mind murdering his way through billions to get there?
I used to be a believer Deeje, in fact 20 odd years ago I'd have no doubt been praying for you, as one of those deceived by satan, in the grasp of the evil Watchtower (the Whore of Babylon?). I haven't become more cynical or hedonistic, I'm not an atheist because I don't like the "hard road" of religious belief, I'm an atheist because I came to a place where I could no longer believe this stuff anymore. At one point in my life I don't think I could envisage living without faith, I was wrong, here I am, happy with life! Intellectual honesty is a big thing for me, it sometimes requires a fight with the ego, but the benefits and rewards are many. Thanks for the exchange, I think you're a nice person.
"During"?
That doesn't seem difficult to me. You don't revoke consent "during". You've consented.
Tom
Meh, I'm not a greedy man, its just money!
I know if there was a big gold nugget buried in my backyard, it wouldn't be greed that motivated me to dig for it....it would be the good I could do with that money for my own nearest and dearest.
We definitely are social animals.....we need the company of others to maintain balance in our thinking.....alone with our own thoughts, we can become quite deluded.
I saw Castaway too and "Wilson" was not terribly good company.
OTOH, I have read about many of our brothers who were put into prison because of neutrality issues, some of whom were placed into solitary confinement. They came out as sane as they ever were due to constant communication with their God.
Communication with this person we call Jehovah is a unique experience. Its hard to explain, but he can communicate with us by helping us recall scriptures that bolster our faith and help us to maintain our integrity under the most extreme pressure.
That's probably because I agree with all their teachings. They the only ones I have ever totally agreed with. When I belonged to a church, I had issues with so many things. And no one could answer my endless questions. I have the answers now. None of them are a stretch.
No problem....I don't believe anything in this world is as it seems. I believe that the lid will be lifted one day and people will see clearly that they have placed their faith in the wrong people....but too late.
If you understood the reason for the situation we are in, it would all make sense.....or at least it does to us.
The original plan was to have a perfect race of free willed beings who would "fill the earth" with their offspring and transform the planet into a global paradise. There was to be no knowledge of evil, and God would decide what was good and what was bad for all his earthly children.
Free will was meant to be a gift; a way to exercise self determination in many choices made every day, but within reasonable limits.....but, then a rebel entered the scene and accused the Creator of being a liar and a lousy parent. This rebel was not human. He hijacked the human race and tricked them into obeying him. They fell for it and he made himself their god. Would humans be better off making their own independent decisions without consulting their Maker? Was a knowledge of good and evil such a bad thing? There was only one way to find out......God allowed the devil to be their god and ruler and he stepped out of the picture to allow them to experience the full consequences of their decision. It was always with the intention of taking everything back to square one after the lesson was over. The Kingdom was the means of reconciling alienated humanity back with their Creator. Precedents are set for all eternity to come and the Creator can get on with whatever plans he has for the rest of the universe. Who knows how many populated worlds he will end up with?
The choosing of the nation of Israel was simply to have a contrast of people who had God's laws and were obligated to keep them, compared to those of the nations who did not. It was used to create a written record to guide humanity in the way they should go in the future.
The Deity is not lonely, nor is he a megalomaniac demanding anything. His first purpose will go ahead, with us or without us....we choose our own destiny by the decisions we make. God has no desire to make a small band happy whilst destroying the rest......he would rather all "attian to repentance". He is offering citizenship to all who will agree to qualify for residency according to his terms. This is his earth to govern as he sees fit....we can choose to live here, or we can be disqualified.
If you were keen on seeking to become a citizen of another country because you liked the way it was governed, but you had to read through a lengthy book of rules in order to qualify to live in that country, your desire to live there would be offset by your ability and desire to follow the rules. If you thought the rules were too restrictive, you would probably choose not to move there. Without realizing it, this is actually what people are doing every day.
If you mean you used to be a church goer...then so did I. And I also came to a point where I could "not believe this stuff anymore". But I didn't throw the baby out with the bath water. I never lost my faith in God...only in his lousy representatives and their failure to follow his instructions.
I came to realize that Christendom was a mirror image of first century Judaism. Christ came to free honest -hearted people from that hypocritical religious system and I believe that God has again facilitated the way out of Christendom for the exact same reason. As I too appreciate intellectual honesty, I found the truth simple and very appealing because there was no pomp and ceremony, no mindless rituals, no paid clergy, no justification for disobeying Christ's commands....only honest Bible study with a view to making sense out of all of it....and being able to qualify for the citizenship being offered.
Likewise I'm sure.
Last edited: