• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Dont want to ask the question as scared of the answer.....

Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
On Saturday evening, the Bishop of my ward rang me and we arranged to meet at the chapel that night. It was great to be able to talk to someone about all of the issues I have and about my friend I have been worried about as well...at least I know someone else is now aware of his situation...

Bishop showed what a great man he is and not the brainwashing mormon my mother would think he was (if she knew I had gone to meet him - she thought I was at a friends! :eek:). He told me not to judge my Mum and there may be something stopping her from accepting religion full stop which I am unaware of. He also asked me to clarify my position with the Church ie if I loved the people of the Church, but didnt agree with it or If I knew the Church was true and for one reason or the other was struggling to following the covenants I made at baptism. I explained to him it was the latter and mentioned that I struggled with Tithing (I still have some concerns..getting there though!). I did say that I wasnt putting the full blame on my family for my leaving twice - I did have some part to play (obviously). One thing I liked which he said, was dont listen to anyone (including himself) but the Heavenly Father as to what to do..as everyone will say different things...

He let me know they were there for me if I needed anything and gave me a blessing...I miss the people at Church...I miss the Church too obviously, but the people are the bonus..they make it that little bit more special...:D

Anyway sorry I am rambling, at the end he told me not to ask the Lord what to do, but instead think of the path I should take for myself and then ask the Lord if it is correct...

Problem is I am terrified to ask the question ie telling my parents so that I may return to Church (as Bishop said, I am missing out on the importance of Sacrament), as I am scared if the answer is yes.....:eek:

Have any of you been too scared to ask the question because you are afraid of the answer? How did you overcome this?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
You're getting a bunch of views of your thread but not a lot of answers. I think maybe people don't understand what it is you're asking. I know I don't. (Sorry!) Does he want you to tell your parents you want to return to church and you're afraid to do so? Is that what you're saying?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
What Katzpur said. I don't see the specific question you are struggling with asking.
Actually, I've been thinking about it and I think I do know now what you're asking. I think you're saying that you're afraid to ask yourself if becoming active in the Church again is worth the aggravation your parents are going to give you over your decision. I'm right about that, huh? :yes: Okay, here's what I think. You've already decided what you want to do. You want to come back. You have a sneaking hunch that if you ask your Father in Heaven if that's the right decision, He's going to say it is. So once you've made your decision and received confirmation, then what? Unless you decide to lie about where you're going every Sunday at the same time, you have to confront your parents and tell them what you've decided to do. You pretty much know how they're going to react because it won't be the first time this scene has played out. It wasn't pleasant last time; why should it be any different this time? Well, it probably won't be. So, is it worth it? What do you stand to lose if you're honest with them? What do you stand to lose if you let them continue to intimidate you? Make two lists and consider your options from that standpoint. You aren't a child anymore, and you have the right to decide for yourself what you want to believe and what kind of lifestyle you want to have. Why do they want to control your choices? That's the question that bothers me. By the way, how long are you willing to let them make this choice for you? I realize that you're living under their roof now, but you're not going to be there forever. I hope I'm not sounding heartless; I know it's got to be really, really hard, but seriously, it's your life.
 

themadhair

Well-Known Member
I think you're saying that you're afraid to ask yourself if becoming active in the Church again is worth the aggravation your parents are going to give you over your decision.
I was wondering whether the question was to ask the parents to rejoin. I had PTS type 3 on the brain so I wasn't sure.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Dream Angel,

I know this sounds backwards, but paying tithes and offerings are more important than attending church. I lost my job November of 2008, I'd worked there for 20 years, at the same job. I was making good money, like 40 thousand a year, it was a shocker to lose that, but I had money saved up. I trade stocks now for a living at home, I still have no job, I don't need one, I have about two years worth of money saved up, meaning I could live for two years, even if I never made another stock trade, so there is positive pressure there, which motivates me to continue to trade stocks so I can insure that I never have to work for someone else again.

I do not lack anything. I even pay my tithes and offerings IN ADVANCE, now, and I don't even have a job. Paying tithes and offerings has the OPPOSITE affect that you think it might have, especially if you pay it IN ADVANCE, meaning I pay, for example, 1000 dollars, to ENSURE that 10,000 dollars will come in, through stock trading, and guess what, IT DOES.

I know it sounds too bizzare, but I've tested this out, and it works, and I don't even go to church. I got the idea to pay tithes in advance while watching a Christian program one day. They were saying that it ENSURES that money will come in, and I've already tested it out and it DOES IN FACT WORK.

But, Dream Angel, remember, it's VERY IMPORTANT to go to church, if you want to meet someone with your same values, and marry them in an LDS temple. I'm divorced, I was married in an LDS temple and I'm still sealed to her, she didn't want to break that sealing, just wanted to legally divorce, but if I ever wanted to remarry someone else in the temple again, I'm gonna have to go back to church. I don't really see myself doing that in this life, but we don't know who the LORD has in mind to miraculously bring into our lives. The Lord has already miraculously directed me to someone, but I'm very cautious THIS TIME around, so it may not happen in this life, it may just be reserved for some other time.

I thought my patriarchal blessing was just trashed, but I see now that it's just the beginning. None of us are trash, it never ends, the LORD'S mercy and forgiveness never ends, we can always start again, with a clean record, before the LORD. He just hits the forgiveness "reset button" when we repent, and we are on our way to a new life.

Let me tell you a true story that happened to me as an LDS missionary in Japan. We were teaching a young girl, who wanted to be baptized. She had found out about the church from someone and was VERY interested, all we did was teach her the basic lessons. She said her parents were threatening her that if she joined the church she would be kicked out of the house. She said, I don't care, I'm getting baptized anyway. She got baptized and guess what the parents DIDN'T kick her out of the house, they were just bluffing. Satan loves to bluff (lie) to us to scare us. he has no power over any person/parent/friend/enemy except the LORD allows it.

The LORD knows you need a place to stay and will provide that for you. Your parents will not kick you out, but you do need to pay tithing to insure that DOES NOT HAPPEN, otherwise it MIGHT.

My parents actually kicked me out of the house, I ignored them, and didn't leave, they were bluffing, but I needed to pay tithing to make sure they didn't follow through with their threats the next time, I had gotten behind on my tithing, and vowed to get caught up, I did and soon after I got married in the temple and left home about 19 years ago. It was VERY freeing, I loved it.

The Lord cannot take care of us, if we don't take care of him, by paying a full tithe, which will ensure we NEVER get into debt, but if we want to prosper and have lots of extra money, then pay an offering above and beyond the tithe. This is the key to wealth.

John Huntsman is an LDS billionaire, he used to give close to half of his money away, after he paid his tithe. Now he's THE wealthiest LDS member in the world. He's the 677th richest man in the world. http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/10/billionaires08_Jon-Huntsman_FETQ.html

I went to school with his daughter, Kathleen Huntsman, who is my age. She drove to school in a nice new Ford Mustang, no Mercedes, they weren't pretentious that way, even though they could afford it, plus she was in PUBLIC school, NOT private, which again, they could afford, but chose not to go that route. They had plenty of money but NEVER blew it on lavish things. John Huntsman, her father, still gives away millions to this day, which ENSURES that money will ALWAYS COME IN.

James 1: 27
Pure religion undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep yourself unspotted from the world.

D&C 64: 23

Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

D&C 85: 3
It is contrary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not their inheritance by consecration, agreeable to his law, which he has given, that he may tithe his people, to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning, should have their names enrolled with the people of God.

I'm not interested in getting BURNED.

It doesn't do any good to go to church, if your not paying tithing, you'll still get burned.

I'm sure If I combined paying tithes and offerings with GOING TO CHURCH, I'd do EVEN BETTER trading stocks. That will be a good incentive for ME to go back to church. I wouldn't go back to church because of the people, I would go because I want the blessings that go along with it.

Again in case you missed it, this is John Huntsman in the link below. He's a Salt Lake City, Utah resident LDS member. I went to Highland High School with his daughter Kathleen Huntsman,

He's a billionaire. Tithes and offerings didn't seem to hurt him. http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/10/billionaires08_Jon-Huntsman_FETQ.html

It did just the opposite, it cause him to FLOURISH and become the 677th wealthiest man in the world.
 
Last edited:

Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
I was wondering whether the question was to ask the parents to rejoin. I had PTS type 3 on the brain so I wasn't sure.

No that wasnt it lol - my parents have never been members - and dont like talking about religion full stop because its "weird"

Sorry I should have asked the question better - I was rambling slightly! :eek:

Katzpur has got it right...

Bishop told me to decide for myself what I must do a) tell my parents and return to Church or b) carry on hiding and dont go to Church. He expressed the importance of me going to Church so that I may partake of the Sacrament, but he also understood me wanting to keep my family happy. I know in my heart that its (a). He then said when I have made this decision, I should pray to the Lord to ask for confimation that I have made the right choice.

He quoted a verse from D&C - cant remember which one now but it was basically saying ask the Lord not what you should do, but if what you think you should do is right.

I am afraid of praying and asking for confirmation because then I will have it and I know I will have to confront my parents...

I hope that makes sense now! Sorry for the confusion everyone!

Katz - you dont sound heartless at all. What you say is correct, I am 23 now and should be able to make some decisions myself! I guess I just feel selfish myself by doing so as my parents have never asked for anything off me. I live under their roof free of charge. The only bills I pay are my car, mobile (cell for you americans) and gym.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
But, Dream Angel, remember, it's VERY IMPORTANT to go to church, if you want to meet someone with your same values, and marry them in an LDS temple. I'm divorced, I was married in an LDS temple and I'm still sealed to her, she didn't want to break that sealing, just wanted to legally divorce, but if I ever wanted to remarry someone else in the temple again, I'm gonna have to go back to church. I don't really see myself doing that in this life, but we don't know who the LORD has in mind to miraculously bring into our lives. The Lord has already miraculously directed me to someone, but I'm very cautious THIS TIME around, so it may not happen in this life, it may just be reserved for some other time.

I didnt realise you were divorced FFH - sorry to hear that - you have always mentioned your wife to me so I just assumed you were still together. Thats two things about you, I had completely wrong now! The other one being that you didnt attend Church.

The LORD knows you need a place to stay and will provide that for you. Your parents will not kick you out, but you do need to pay tithing to insure that DOES NOT HAPPEN, otherwise it MIGHT.

My parents would never kick me out the house. She has threatened in the past (not related to the Church) but when I turned around and said "Ok then I will go...(interestingly I have a friend who said I can move in with them)"...she suddenly changes her mind...I often wonder if she thinks I cant cope on my own..I am still "her little girl" who cant be independent...and she thinks it will scare me, then when she realises actually I could cope - she gets scared

As much as I love my parents and family dearly. I think I am at the point, where I need to live in my own place. Unfortunately I dont have a deposit to buy a place, but I am going to save up over the next couple of years (hopefully year!)...
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I didnt realise you were divorced FFH - sorry to hear that - you have always mentioned your wife to me so I just assumed you were still together. Thats two things about you, I had completely wrong now! The other one being that you didnt attend Church.
Both of my wife's parents died, and left her with a lot of money, but she had no access to that money unless she was divorced. Her mother was not too happy with me I guess. So my wife said, I'll divorce, get the money and then we'll remarry. That was the plan, then she got scared, that if she remarried, the money would be taken back from her, so she said, I don't want to remarry. What a shocker that was.

She still lives with me though and we're still sealed. She doesn't want to break that sealing, but does not want to remarry, cuz she thinks they'll take back her money, it's a lot of money, I don't blame her, we didn't get along anyway.

She still lives with me, but in a seperate room. The Lord told me to continue taking care of her, she's not well spritually, she's a wreck and would not survive well on her own, she has no relatives to turn to, she's from Massachusetts and has just two relatives that she knows of there, a brother and an aunt, but they are not willing to help her out, they have estranged her. She's on her own.

The Lord told me clearly that if I didn't take care of her I would be severely punished. The Lord let me feel the pains of hell for one day, to let me know that if I told her to leave or left her I would be in a living hell. literally, and it would not let up until I did what he said to do.

Anyway, I did what the LORD told me to do, so she still lives here and I take care of her, She's not well, I just say she's my wife because really this is too hard to explain to everyone that asks, so I've been in the habit of telling everyone that she's my wife, and she is, cuz we are still sealed to each other in the temple, but legally we are divorced.

If she gets strong enough, I'll leave, maybe, but for now the LORD has EXPRESSLY forbidden me to do that. I won't disobey the LORD cuz he's already had me FEEL the consequences of disobeying him.

My wife, is not strong enough to take care of herself. She's spiritually crippled. Mentally she's probably stable enough to survive on her own, but not quite there yet.

I may have to take care of her the rest of my life, but I was shown that there is another person that I will most likely be with in the eternities.

It's very personal and may sound a bit strange, but I've been shown that the person I married was not necessarily the person in my patriarchal blessing, but there was a reason for our marriage. I was supposed to take care of her, help her out in this life, help her get through this life, but there is another whom I have always loved, throughout the eternities, whom the LORD has shown me. I heard her voice and saw her face, it was very clear. There is no such thing as time and space in prayer, all is revealed, if you really get into it.

Again, I see how plural marriage can be a righteous part of heaven. There are MANY who want to be sealed to someone, but maybe not necessarily want to be with that person, there seems to be some sort of dynamic where some are closer to us than others. It's not like earth, it's spiritual, no lusts, no tears, no sorrows, no sufferings, no jealousies, only joy and sharing one another in love. Lust is NOT a part of heaven, but ONLY love, joy, peace, happiness. All is shared in heaven, we gain strength from others and what they have to offer us, because they bring so much joy into our lives.

The Lord will give us the desires of our heart. He will work everything out for our good, if we love him by keeping his commandments,

I don't know how to explain it any further. I've just been shown and have felt so much joy in the last month.

I wondered if I was imagining it and as soon as I thought that VERY thought, and expressed it to another, a HORRIBLE headache came over me and I was told to never think that or say that to anyone ever again, and as soon as I agreed to that in my mind, peace came back into my mind and the headache left.

I've actually seen another wife, and have been shown who it is. It was a miraculous thing, something that most will not understand or believe. I was also shown my first wife, before I met her. I was shown the details of her hair (dark, thin) and a general outline/size of her face, so I would positively recognize her when I saw her. We were married for 15 years, it's just been in the last few years that we legally divorced.

I am to stay with her most likely until I leave this life. I haven't been shown or told to do otherwise, but I have been shown that if I leave her it would not be the right choice. I was told to keep taking care of her, because she cannot properly take care of herself.

I was also CLEARLY shown in prayer, that there is another "waiting" for me on the other side, yet she is still living too, but when Christ returns, she will be waiting for me. I was shown that VERY CLEARLY, absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind whatsoever.

It's strange I know, but I have seen her. The LORD shows us people before we meet them, so that we will recognize them when we see them, and know why they have been brought into our lives. I've had this confirmed to me over and over and over through other experiences. One time the LORD showed me a girl in a BRIGHT PINK shirt, then the very next day a BEAUTIFUL girl in a BRIGHT PINK shirt came into where I worked. She looked like an angel really. She just smiled and I smiled back, she didn't say a word. It made my day, just to know that the LORD has shown me how powerful he was through that experience. It happened another time, but I was shown more details about the person, another beautiful girl. I saw her face, I wondered what was going on. I saw details. saw her the VERY next day. Also if I'm going to see someone I haven't seen in years, the LORD will show that person to me and soon after that and sometimes the next day I will see them, so I'm prepared to see them and look forward to it.

My parents would never kick me out the house. She has threatened in the past (not related to the Church) but when I turned around and said "Ok then I will go...(interestingly I have a friend who said I can move in with them)"...she suddenly changes her mind...I often wonder if she thinks I cant cope on my own..I am still "her little girl" who cant be independent...and she thinks it will scare me, then when she realises actually I could cope - she gets scared
My parents used similar tactics on me, it worked for a while, then I got married and left, I felt so free. I've been married since then, but now we are divorced, it's a sad situation really. I don't think the Lord is upset with Jane (my wife) for doing what she did. Again, he's shown me that there is another. I don't know if I'll be with my wife throughout the eternities or not, I was just shown that I was NOT TO WORRY, there is another and was CLEARLY shown her in prayer and told that this other person would be waiting for me in the next life SO NOT TO WORRY about what has happened to me in this life, just keep taking care of Jane (my wife), she needs help. It was such a real experience that I was filled with JOY all day long, my heart was filled with joy so full that I could hardly contain it, it felt like it would physically burst. I was like, I can't take this any longer, it's too much, but it felt great, but one day of that was enough. We could never contain the joy that awaits us in this life, in our mortal bodies, it would knock us out, it's too much for our physical bodies to handle. The Lord is good and will give us the desires of our hearts, but we must SERVE others in this life, it's not about us, it's about serving others, that's why I say, Dream Angel, do not forsake your friend who is disabled, or anyone else who may need your help. They are the key to your happiness. What we do for others in serving them and loving them is eternal, it will be eternally recorded in heaven to our credit.

Jesus said, "whatever ye do the least of these my bretheren, ye have done it unto me".

It's as if we are SERVING JESUS when we help out the most helpless individuals.

MY WIFE IS ONE OF THEM. Even though she divorced me, which really hurt, I was told to keep taking care of her, because I don't know the whole situation/eternal picture. I don't know the mind of the LORD and should NEVER doubt him, and I was told NEVER to break our sealing, and to keep taking care of her.

She is not well spiritually and mentally, she does have some challenges, she's not up to speed with the rest of society, but could survive on her own, if she had to, but not very well, and I would be responsible if I didn't take care of her. I want to take care of her though, it's not a burden, it's a blessing, it ensures that I will always be blessed.

See why I just say she's my wife, I don't want to have to explain this to everyone I meet in real life or talk to on the internet, it's just too much of a hastle and if I say I'm single or divorced, it looks like I'm available, which I'm not.

We are to forsake our own lives in the service of others. Forgive others, serve them, love them, take care of them.

My life is not my own.

As much as I love my parents and family dearly. I think I am at the point, where I need to live in my own place. I dont have a deposit to buy a place, but I am going to save up over the next couple of years (hopefully year!)...
The Lord has always taken care of whatever I wanted or needed, all I did was pay tithing, then I realize I wanted more money so I started paying an offering and the money came in fast.
 
Last edited:

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Katz - you dont sound heartless at all. What you say is correct, I am 23 now and should be able to make some decisions myself! I guess I just feel selfish myself by doing so as my parents have never asked for anything off me. I live under their roof free of charge. The only bills I pay are my car, mobile (cell for you americans) and gym.
I understand. Really, I do. I lived at home until I got married, but I got married at 21. I was happy at home and had pretty much the same financial arrangement with my parents as you have with yours. I didn't feel as if they asked much of me and so I wanted to do whatever I could be show my appreciation. I've always been extremely close to my parents (my dad died 15 1/2 years ago, just before his 83rd birthday, and my mom, who lives with me now, will be 96 in just over a week!). We had the same religious beliefs, so that was never an issue. I've never walked in your shoes so it's probably not fair of me to try to suggest how you live your life. I'm just wondering what your decision would be if you were still living at home in five years. Would there come a time when you would feel comfortable saying to them, "Look, I love you and I respect you, but I have different beliefs about God than you do. I need to live my life the way my heart and my mind tell me I should."
 
Last edited:

Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
I'm just wondering what your decision would be if you were still living at home in five years. Would there come a time when you would feel comfortable saying to them, "Look, I love you and I respect you, but I have different beliefs about God than you do. I need to live my life the way my heart and my mind tell me I should."

You know I think I will always worry about telling my Mum as she is not the sort of person to turn round and say calmly "well I dont agree with your decision, but whatever makes you happy dear"...I have learnt over the last couple of years, that no matter how nicely and respectfully I try and put my opinion across...it will be recieved by my mum as me being rude and disrespectful and ungrateful. Its not ao much the telling her that worries me, it is the constant tension that will exist in the house from that moment on..the arguments etc...

There is enough tension in the house already..I really dont want to be the cause of anymore...:eek:

I dont mean to make my mum out to be some sort of monstor - I know on these forums I moan about her a lot, thats because my mum is the sort of person who wont discuss religion because "its weird" and everytime I am on here...its discussing religion...She is a lovely person (sometimes) and has done a lot for me..and I love her dearly, which is why this is so hard....

I still havent asked The Lord the question yet...maybe I should ask for the courage to ask the question first? :rolleyes:

On a completely unrelated note...it is the worst thunderstorm outside I have seen in the UK for a while..maybe I shouldnt be on the computer....:eek:
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
You know I think I will always worry about telling my Mum as she is not the sort of person to turn round and say calmly "well I dont agree with your decision, but whatever makes you happy dear"...I have learnt over the last couple of years, that no matter how nicely and respectfully I try and put my opinion across...it will be recieved by my mum as me being rude and disrespectful and ungrateful. Its not ao much the telling her that worries me, it is the constant tension that will exist in the house from that moment on..the arguments etc...

There is enough tension in the house already..I really dont want to be the cause of anymore...:eek:

I dont mean to make my mum out to be some sort of monstor - I know on these forums I moan about her a lot, thats because my mum is the sort of person who wont discuss religion because "its weird" and everytime I am on here...its discussing religion...She is a lovely person (sometimes) and has done a lot for me..and I love her dearly, which is why this is so hard....

I still havent asked The Lord the question yet...maybe I should ask for the courage to ask the question first? :rolleyes:

On a completely unrelated note...it is the worst thunderstorm outside I have seen in the UK for a while..maybe I shouldnt be on the computer....:eek:
Even though I have never been in the position you're in, I can empathize to the degree that there is nothing I would ever want to do to cause problems between me and my mother. So, from that standpoint, I can really understand why this is such a dilemma. Maybe the best thing would be to wait until you're not living at home any more. I wish I had a good answer for you.
 

Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
Even though I have never been in the position you're in, I can empathize to the degree that there is nothing I would ever want to do to cause problems between me and my mother. So, from that standpoint, I can really understand why this is such a dilemma. Maybe the best thing would be to wait until you're not living at home any more. I wish I had a good answer for you.

Perhaps that is the best...I dont know...its OK Katz, no one will have the answer and as Bishop said everyone will have different ideas/suggestions etc..and the end of the days its myself and ultimately Heavenly Father who will make the decision...Its nice just being able to ramble on about it really...I have said before these forums are my release as I dont get to talk about how happy I am with the Church very often..
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I also want to comment on FFH's advice that you pay tithing in advance or that you pay more than 10% if you're in need of greater blessings. Both suggestions are absolute nonsense in my opinion. The Lord wants us to live prudently. He doesn't expect or want us to pay tithing on our "anticipated increase." He wants us to pay it on our increase, on money we have actually earned. He has asked that we pay "tithing" which means 10%. To imply that he will bless us more if we pay 20% or 30% is suggesting that we can buy the blessings that God gives us freely. We are not to pay tithing as some kind of a bribe, but to show God that we are willing to obey His commandments. If there is any principle of the gospel that I have a strong, strong testimony on, it's tithing. I have found that when I pay my tithing, the Lord makes sure that my other needs are met. I have seen this happen in my own life so many times I have lost count. I think we can also be extra generous in our other offerings, if we are in a position to be able to do so, but not with the idea in mind that it's a means for us to increase our own income, for crying out loud!
 

FFH

Veteran Member
You know I think I will always worry about telling my Mum as she is not the sort of person to turn round and say calmly "well I dont agree with your decision, but whatever makes you happy dear"...I have learnt over the last couple of years, that no matter how nicely and respectfully I try and put my opinion across...it will be recieved by my mum as me being rude and disrespectful and ungrateful. Its not ao much the telling her that worries me, it is the constant tension that will exist in the house from that moment on..the arguments etc...

There is enough tension in the house already..I really dont want to be the cause of anymore...:eek:

I dont mean to make my mum out to be some sort of monstor - I know on these forums I moan about her a lot, thats because my mum is the sort of person who wont discuss religion because "its weird" and everytime I am on here...its discussing religion...She is a lovely person (sometimes) and has done a lot for me..and I love her dearly, which is why this is so hard....

I still havent asked The Lord the question yet...maybe I should ask for the courage to ask the question first? :rolleyes:

On a completely unrelated note...it is the worst thunderstorm outside I have seen in the UK for a while..maybe I shouldnt be on the computer....:eek:
Our adversary is working hard against our happiness in this life, and wants to ensure that we never obtain a a fullness of joy (eternal life), in the next life, with our Heavenly Father. He's especially angry at LDS members since we will be with our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in the next life, two people he hates with a passion.

Our adversary will work through whomever he chooses, if that person is not keeping all the commandments, in order to discourage us IN ANY WAY HE CAN.

The only sure safety, and place of complete peace, is for us to keep all of the commandments given to us.

Remember the LDS hymn ???
"Keep the Commandment, in this there is safety, in this there is peace."
 
Last edited:

FFH

Veteran Member
DreamAngel said:
On a completely unrelated note...it is the worst thunderstorm outside I have seen in the UK for a while..maybe I shouldnt be on the computer....:eek:

It just started thundering and lightening here too, with heavy rainfall, mixed with hail.

Here's the proof, as of 1pm (MST) Mountain Standard Time http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=south+jordan+weather&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g6

I have a a very expensive surge protector though, it will withstand a lightening strike, I don't take any chances, Satan already tried to take out this computer by causing the power to go out quickly and very violently four times in a row, I unplugged the computer and it stopped. Coincidence ???, NO, I was posting the written missionary discussions about a year ago when that happened.

I had brought this computer to work. but didn't bring my surge protector, bad mistake, I wasn't thinking.

Satan doesn't like it when people discuss salvation and eternal life, two things he has eternally rejected by his OWN free will, because of his hatred towards Jesus Christ and our Eternal Father.

But really these rainstorms are blessings of course, it's so green here in Utah, greener than it normally has been in quite a few years, because of some great rainstorms.

Blessings are ensuree to those who are righteous, no matter the economic condition of the world.
 
Last edited:

zomg

I aim to misbehave!
I also want to comment on FFH's advice that you pay tithing in advance or that you pay more than 10% if you're in need of greater blessings. Both suggestions are absolute nonsense in my opinion. The Lord wants us to live prudently. He doesn't expect or want us to pay tithing on our "anticipated increase." He wants us to pay it on our increase, on money we have actually earned. He has asked that we pay "tithing" which means 10%. To imply that he will bless us more if we pay 20% or 30% is suggesting that we can buy the blessings that God gives us freely. We are not to pay tithing as some kind of a bribe, but to show God that we are willing to obey His commandments. If there is any principle of the gospel that I have a strong, strong testimony on, it's tithing. I have found that when I pay my tithing, the Lord makes sure that my other needs are met. I have seen this happen in my own life so many times I have lost count. I think we can also be extra generous in our other offerings, if we are in a position to be able to do so, but not with the idea in mind that it's a means for us to increase our own income, for crying out loud!
I pay 99% of my increase so neener ;)
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I need to make myself clearer on a few things..

I NEVER said pay MORE than 10 percent. Show me where I said pay MORE than 10 percent tithe. I ONLY said I pay it in ADVANCE to ENSURE blessings will come in. it's just a suggestion, just an idea that I got from someone else, and takes the pressure off of worrying about paying tithes, because it's always paid in advance, in faith, so that your always assured that money will come in. IT'S JUST A SUGGESTION, like paying your mortgage in advance, to ensure you'll have a place to stay in the future. It's like paying your bills in advance, by setting aside money, to ensure they will be paid in the future. It's about setting aside money for the future. We should not only have FOOD storage, but MONEY storage, at least the same amount as the FOOD storage, a two years supply comes to mind.

It's worked for me in the past, and I'm just starting to do it again. I don't like owing, I like to get AHEAD of my bills. I've never been in debt, but only one month in my life, and I didn't need to, I just wanted to, to see how it felt, it was like a living hell. Debt is like a living hell, even if it's a small amount.

We should be LENDERS and not BORROWERS.

I don't pay more than 10 percent tithing, I just pay an offering above and beyond the tithe. A bishop thought I was paying more than 10 percent once, I don't know why he said that, I guess he couldn't believe I was making the kind of money I was making at the job I was at, in the PIZZA BIZ. Truth is most delivery drivers and managers in fast food make more than you would think. Look into it, they just have to work more hours, long hours to get it, which most of us did, the last year I worked I was at the store for about 12 hours a day with about an hour or two hours break. It was pretty intense, but the money was nice.

My neighbors couldn't figure out where the money was coming from either. I've never had to go into debt. If I don't have the money I don't spend it. I live on the smallest amount of money possible, so I don't have to stress about bills.

I'm sure the Bishop of my ward is scratching his head thinking, this guy doesn't even go to church and here he is paying tithes and offerings, go figure.

It's not an option to NOT pay tithing, otherwise we'll get burned.

Malachi 3
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are acursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

10 Bring ye all the atithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will arebuke the bdevourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

If we are NOT giving a TITHE AND AN OFFERING, we are "acursed with a curse, even this WHOLE NATION".

I think we've already seen evidence of that in America. We know better, than to "rob God". We have NO EXCUSE.

Just paying a tithe WON'T open the windows of heaven, an OFFERING has to be placed on top of that, IN ORDER FOR THE WINDOWS TO OPEN and money and oportunities to start pouring in.

I've tried different ways to get money to come into my life, by reading positive thinking and self help books, but what I realized is that stuff doesn't really work, it's only through studying the Book of Mormon, the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenants that wealth begins to come into your life, by obeying ALL the COMMANDMENTS. If we are just hearers of the word and not doers, what will it PROFIT us.

The WAGES of sin is DEATH.
 
Last edited:

FFH

Veteran Member
One thing I do understand Dream Angel, is that the taxes in England are MUCH higher than the states. The cost of living is also MUCH higher than it is in the states. I've been to London twice, i've experienced the living conditions and cost of living there and understand that taxes are as high as 50 percent, because of the aristocracry. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I TRULY understand how hard it is to pay tithing, but look at the alternative, according to scripture, It's not good. In the ETERNAL perspective of things, we always lose out if we don't obey the commandments set forth in scripture, we cheat ourselves out of happiness that we could have had, had we obeyed the LORD in all things.

When you obey a commandment, there is ALWAYS a blessing, work becomes EASIER, life FLOWS better, things get done quicker, less and less goes wrong, inspiration begins to flow, so that your day goes MUCH better. Work seems like a breeze, it takes LESS effort. All these things are blessings.

When I'm typing even it seems effortless if I'm typing something the LORD wants me to type, verses when I'm typing something that is trivial.
 
Last edited:

Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
One thing I do understand Dream Angel, is that the taxes in England are MUCH higher than the states. The cost of living is also MUCH higher than it is in the states. I've been to London twice, i've experienced the living conditions and cost of living there and understand that taxes are as high as 50 percent, because of the aristocracry. Correct me if I'm wrong.

No you are correct, but it depends on your income...

I think the first 6000pounds is free (dont know the exchange rate at mo so cant say what that is in dollars), then its 20% and then those that are earning over 40,000pounds (I think) get taxed 40%...I think they were thinking of bringing in an even higher one for those earning more that 100,000pounds...not entirely sure what it is though or if it was even passed.
 
Top