• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Dorje Shugden / Dhogyal

Hyperborean

Cultural Conservative
According to practicioners, the deity (which somewhat resembles a "saint" in Christianity), Dorje Shugden is an emanation of Manjushri. Immediately before this, he was believed to have lived as the Gelugpa Lama "Dragpa Gyaltsen" in Drepung. Previously, he was considered to be a dharma-protector, associated with Gelugpa and Sakya schools of Tantric Buddhism.

The current Dalai Lama, though a former Shugden practicioner himself has banned the veneration of Shugden saying that practicioners are only worshiping the man Dragpa Gyatlsen himself. The Leading Shugden master, Kelsang Gyatso, however, has re-enforced the view that Dorje Shugden is an emanation of Manjushri, and not a worldy being. He says that the form of Dorje Shugden reveals the complete stages of the path of Sutra and Tantra, and such qualities are not possessed by the forms of worldly beings.

Over the last 300 years, Dorje Shugden practice has been a central Protector practice of almost every Gelugpa Monastery in Tibet and in exile. Kelsang Gyatso, remarked in the book "Heart Jewel":
However, the beings of this present time have a stronger karmic link with Dorje Shugden than with the other Dharma Protectors. It was for this reason that Morchen Dorjechang Kunga Lhundrup, a very highly realized Master of the Sakya tradition, told his disciples, "Now is the time to rely upon Dorje Shugden." He said this on many occasions to encourage his disciples to develop faith in the practice of Dorje Shugden.

Controversy?

It has been a source of controversy in the Exile Tibetan Community in Dharamsala in particular that the Dalai Lama has banned veneration of Shugden, saying that it promotes sectarianism, and that it harms the status of Tibet as a whole. In addition, the religious reasoning is the controversy between the status of Shugden as merely a deceased spirit, or a genuine Dharma protector. This means, that the Shugden controversy lies upon these three questions:

First, what is the nature of Dorje Shugden? Is Dorje Shugden an enlightened "saintly" being or merely a worldy being?
Second, what features of Dorje Shugden make it sectarian, and further, how does one define sectarianism?
Lastly, What are the motivations for the ban on the practice?

With reference to defining sectarianism, there is some evidence to suggest the uniqueness the Shugden practice. One might compare this to the differences between various sects and denominations of the Christian religion. Certainly the "Ave Maria" prayer is unique to Catholicism, as is veneration of the Virgin Mary. Likewise, there are certain Protestant practices which are unique to Protestantism. Those practices in themselves do not make either denomination "sectarian".

According to the TGIE, the ban is required to prevent Buddhism from becoming "idol worship" and because Dorje Shugden is ‘hostile to the government of the Dalai Lamas’. Dorje Shugden practitioners say the ban is motivated by a political desire to consolidate power and to provide a scapegoat for the problems faced by the Tibetan government in exile and to distract attention away from painful concessions being made in the negotiations with the Chinese.

Al Jazeera (video) reported that:

The ban [on Dorje Shugden] has created tension and dissent amongst the one million Tibetans living in India and in May 400 monks were thrown out of monasteries because of their religious beliefs. In the Tibetan refugee camps, Shugden worshippers have been turned away from jobs, shops and schools. Posters with the message "no Shugden followers allowed" cover hospital and shop fronts...Shugden followers in India have decided to take matters into their own hands, taking the Dalai Lama to court for religious discrimination.

Amnesty International, however, has claimed that "None of the material AI has received contains evidence of abuses which fall within Al's mandate for action".
 
Last edited:

Hyperborean

Cultural Conservative
I was just wondering if anybody had an opinion on this controversial subject within the Tibetan community.
 

Scarlett Wampus

psychonaut
Don't have much of an opinion about this but I find the bits & pieces of news about it curious.

Is anyone here close enough to the front lines of this conflict to verify that religious persecution is going on?
 
I am a bit curious as to why the OP has posted this given that he is rabidly and openly racist towards Tibetans. If he is reading this, I would like him to reply honestly with a good reason.

The Dorje Shugden are very dangerous people. An anti-fascist poster on a forum I frequent says that many of the Shugden are actually right-wing esoteric Hitlerists that get into Buddhism for all the wrong reasons. This should be settled as an internal matter by the brave Tibetan people.

Paid protesters in Germany ! - Phayul Message Forum
progress.gif
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/../editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1451271
Shugden are nothing but murderers, liars, cheaters, terrorists and rapists. They often threaten the Dalai Lama in writing and harass people that follow mainstream Tibetan Buddhism:

Murder in Dharamsala
 

Hyperborean

Cultural Conservative
I am a bit curious as to why the OP has posted this given that he is rabidly and openly racist towards Tibetans. If he is reading this, I would like him to reply honestly with a good reason.

The Dorje Shugden are very dangerous people. An anti-fascist poster on a forum I frequent says that many of the Shugden are actually right-wing esoteric Hitlerists that get into Buddhism for all the wrong reasons. This should be settled as an internal matter by the brave Tibetan people.

Paid protesters in Germany ! - Phayul Message Forum
progress.gif
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/../editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1451271
Shugden are nothing but murderers, liars, cheaters, terrorists and rapists. They often threaten the Dalai Lama in writing and harass people that follow mainstream Tibetan Buddhism:

Murder in Dharamsala
Ironic that you would accuse me of being a racist, while one of the links you provided contains a racial slur, repeated many times, against Chinese people. You call me a bigot, yet put down all Shugden practicioners with your ill-concieved notions, based on a tradition that they have decided to continue. "Anti-Shugden" can hardly be an objective source since their immediate purpose is to further stereotypes and hatreds against Shugden by people such as yourself who have already bought into the bait, line, and sinker, of the controlled media.

Why did I post this? This thread is to show what some Tibetans are facing within their own community. I tried to explain what the Shugden Tradition is, however, being a Muslim, I must admit that I would have to study a lot more on my part. That's why I shall defer to some Lamaists if there are any here to explain the more esoteric theoretical questions. There's nothing else to this thread.

Don't you think all people deserve human rights and freedom of religion?

If so, then why are you afraid to ask why the Dalai Lama is supressing it?
 

Dorje

Ri-me
the whole Shugdan controversy has been thrown out of proportion by many Buddhist. Its all about religious Freedoms. The Dalai Lama has banned Shugdan worship after his root teachers and all past Dalai Lama's practiced Shugdan Worship. The Dalai Lama ahould allow the Gelugs their religous freedoms. He is NOT the leader of the Gelugs, with that said his opinion, though important, should not effect Gelugs as much as it has.

Dorje Shugdan is a Dharma Protector, or Dharmapala. He is an emination of the wisdom of Manjushri. But, i guess if you think he is a wordly being, that o.k. you may use other Dharmapalas. But, according to the NKT he is the main Dharmapala to be used in their practice and is thus very important. For the Dalai Lama to outlaw Dorje Shugdan practice not only cuts of religious freedoms, but is saying that his root Gurus, and all the other Dalai Lama's are wrong in one of their fundamental practices.

The reason why the Dalai Lama is supressing this practice is becuse he thinks that it goes up against the practices of Pehor, the Tibetan Protector deity, and up against the practices of Palden Lhamo, the destroyer of fears. I think that if this was true, it would have been found out long ago by another Dalai Lama or Yogi.
 

wisdombeing

Wannabe Wisdom Being
Talking of the Gelugpa school, HH Gaden Trisul, the retired supreme head of the the Gelugpas, has recently come out and openly supported Dorje Shugden practice. In doing so, he has left Gaden monastery and joined Shar Gaden, the monastery which has sprung up just next to Gaden monastery itself.

Read the following - just to share with you:

The term of office for the current Gaden Tripa has finished. He has successfully finished his term. He has the title now of His Holiness Gaden Trisur Rinpoche Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal. He primarily resides in France although he has a ladrang in Gaden Shartse, Nepal and Yangthing, Tibet.

Gaden Tripa-Gaden throne holder
Gaden Trisur-Gaden’s ex-throne holder Emeritus

Gaden Trisur Rinpoche belongs to the Dokhang Khangtsen house of Gaden Shartse Monastery formerly. He studied and recieved his geshe degree in Gaden Shartse. Later he became Gaden Tripa.

Gaden Trisur Rinpoche has never journeyed to Gaden Shartse Monastery to swear in or take a oath that he gives up Dorje Shugden. In a stunning turn around, he has officially left Gaden Shartse Monastery and joined SHAR GADEN MONASTERY similar with other elite lamas such as Trijang Rinpoche and Dromo Geshe Rinpoche recently.
Gaden Trisur’s household (ladrang) all together with HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche have joined Shar Gaden Monastery.

It is a stunning and ’shocking’ move as Gaden Trisur Rinpoche is a very high ranking Lama within the Gelug Heirachy.

Gaden Trisur’s assistant was sent to speak with the current Gaden Shartse Abbot that he is leaving Shartse Monastery and joining Shar Gaden. It is exactly what happened to Trijang Rinpoche and his ladrang in Gaden.

So two big ladrangs from Shartse has left and joined Shar Gaden.

Gaden Trisur’s throne that is in Shartse will remain in Shartse just like Trijang Rinpoche’s throne although he has left Shartse Monastery completely.

HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche was the student of the previous Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang.
This eventful move will embarrass the Tibetan Government in exile and also show them that not everyone is afraid of them and there are high ranking lamas who will stand up for what they believe.

With time, more and more monks will defect to Shar Gaden Monastery because they remain loyal to their lineage, lamas, and practices.

In Sera, Gaden, Drepung, Tashilungpo, Gyuto and Gyurme Monasteries take a fake oath as they put it to temporarily quiet down the Tibetan Government and their unjust/undemocratic persecution of Dorje Shugden devotees.

They stand up in front of the congregation (if they don’t, then they face expulsion from the Monastery) and read the words that ’swear’ they abandon Dorje Shugden and will not be associated with Dorje Shugden followers in any manner. The monks say they just read the words and do not feel anything from their heart. It is pure persecution. Many monks dare not say or speak out against the Tibetan government, but they are in that opinion. With Gaden Trisur’s recent move, it will give strength to many who are persecuted up till today.
 

dharmajewel

New Member
It's clear that any from of repression is wrong (morally) and this includes Shugden practitioners. I pray thet The Dalai Lama's oppressive and damaging policies will swiftly end and harmony be restored. He has caused so much damage already, this is very sad, for him, and for all Buddhists.
 
Top