Drinking age and the military?

[SomeRandom]

So this is just pure curiosity on my part.
As I understand it, you can enlist in the military at age 18 in the United States, regardless of the state. Correct?
But there are some (not all) states that stipulate the legal drinking age to be at minimum 21.
I’m under no delusions that people actually wait that long. I mean I’m Australian for crying out loud lol
But how is this seen in the states?
By that I mean is this a rule that is accepted by folks as reasonable? Generally speaking
Or is this a case where people might be inclined to look the other way if an underaged soldier snuck a beer or two?
Since they are, well, in the military.

I want to know your thoughts on this rule and what your observations have been.
Do you think the age should be lowered? Raised? Exceptions made for those serving?

Whatever you reckon, let me know!

 

[Subduction Zone]

So this is just pure curiosity on my part.
As I understand it, you can enlist in the military at age 18 in the United States, regardless of the state. Correct?
But there are some (not all) states that stipulate the legal drinking age to be at minimum 21.
I’m under no delusions that people actually wait that long. I mean I’m Australian for crying out loud lol
But how is this seen in the states?
By that I mean is this a rule that is accepted by folks as reasonable? Generally speaking
Or is this a case where people might be inclined to look the other way if an underaged soldier snuck a beer or two?
Since they are, well, in the military.

I want to know your thoughts on this rule and what your observations have been.
Do you think the age should be lowered? Raised? Exceptions made for those serving?

Whatever you reckon, let me know!

Way back in the late 1960's and early 1970's quite a few states lowered their drinking ages to 18. We had a war going on and 18 year old kids were adult enough to force into the Army and send them off to possibly die, but too young to drink. A lot saw the hypocrisy of that. But once the war was over the deaths by drunk drivers were high enough to justify raising the age again. I do not know how much accuracy were in those claims. but I did personally know one young man that died from a drunk driving accident. Though he would have been very close to 21 either way at the time.

I think a big part of the problem is how alcohol is treated in this country. Give enough time we would probably have adjusted to an 18 year old legal drinking age.

 

[SomeRandom]

Way back in the late 1960's and early 1970's quite a few states lowered their drinking ages to 18. We had a war going on and 18 year old kids were adult enough to force into the Army and send them off to possibly die, but too young to drink. A lot saw the hypocrisy of that. But once the war was over the deaths by drunk drivers were high enough to justify raising the age again. I do not know how much accuracy were in those claims. but I did personally know one young man that died from a drunk driving accident. Though he would have been very close to 21 either way at the time.

I think a big part of the problem is how alcohol is treated in this country. Give enough time we would probably have adjusted to an 18 year old legal drinking age.

Interesting.
That’s was basically our reasoning for lowering our drinking age.
Maybe because of how our laws work, the federal law was imposed more easily. I don’t know. We don’t have a lot of difference in our state laws in comparison. So I’m assuming that was the case.
The drunk driving issue did make the government consider a higher drinking age but I guess too many people objected

 

[Heyo]

So this is just pure curiosity on my part.
As I understand it, you can enlist in the military at age 18 in the United States, regardless of the state. Correct?
But there are some (not all) states that stipulate the legal drinking age to be at minimum 21.
I’m under no delusions that people actually wait that long. I mean I’m Australian for crying out loud lol
But how is this seen in the states?
By that I mean is this a rule that is accepted by folks as reasonable? Generally speaking
Or is this a case where people might be inclined to look the other way if an underaged soldier snuck a beer or two?
Since they are, well, in the military.

I want to know your thoughts on this rule and what your observations have been.
Do you think the age should be lowered? Raised? Exceptions made for those serving?

Whatever you reckon, let me know!

The first (and last) time I was black out drunk was when I was 14. Legally I could drink beer at 16, hard liquor at 18. I could legally drive at 18 and be drafted into the military. I still can't legally smoke cannabis at over 60 (but that's going to change).

What that shows is that the ages and restrictions are widely arbitrary and not based on facts.

 

[Heyo]

The drunk driving issue did make the government consider a higher drinking age but I guess too many people objected

If drunk driving is an issue, prohibit drunk driving, not driving or drinking.
I don't know how your statistics were/are but we have drunk drivers of all ages.

 

[SomeRandom]

The first (and last) time I was black out drunk was when I was 14. Legally I could drink beer at 16, hard liquor at 18. I could legally drive at 18 and be drafted into the military. I still can't legally smoke cannabis at over 60 (but that's going to change).

What that shows is that the ages and restrictions are widely arbitrary and not based on facts.

That’s very interesting
I agree

If drunk driving is an issue, prohibit drunk driving, not driving or drinking.
I don't know how your statistics were/are but we have drunk drivers of all ages.

Agreed. I think our drunk driver ages vary considerably. Considering when we allow teens to drive legally

I’m not saying that the concern was one that was wholly logical. I don’t think it was, personally. I’m just saying that that’s what happened

 

[Subduction Zone]

Interesting.
That’s was basically our reasoning for lowering our drinking age.
Maybe because of how our laws work, the federal law was imposed more easily. I don’t know. We don’t have a lot of difference in our state laws in comparison. So I’m assuming that was the case.
The drunk driving issue did make the government consider a higher drinking age but I guess too many people objected

It was maybe a year before I turned eighteen that they lowered the drinking age in my state. Our nearest neighbor to the east had already lowered theirs and of our top three cities population wise one was right on the border and the other two were only a half and hour away from the border. I think that they foresaw countless eighteen year olds taking to the streets to get drunk and then driving home hammered.

That lased about ten years or so. The Ronald Reagan tied getting federal highway funds to raising the drinking age. Every state with an eighteen year drinking age caved.

 

[Valjean]

Way back in the late 1960's and early 1970's quite a few states lowered their drinking ages to 18. We had a war going on and 18 year old kids were adult enough to force into the Army and send them off to possibly die, but too young to drink. A lot saw the hypocrisy of that. But once the war was over the deaths by drunk drivers were high enough to justify raising the age again. I do not know how much accuracy were in those claims. but I did personally know one young man that died from a drunk driving accident. Though he would have been very close to 21 either way at the time.

I think a big part of the problem is how alcohol is treated in this country. Give enough time we would probably have adjusted to an 18 year old legal drinking age.

The problem is that the recklessness, audacity and impulsiveness of eighteen year olds, make good fighters, but poor voters -- and drinkers.
The necessary qualities are not comparable.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The problem is that the recklessness, audacity and impulsiveness of eighteen year olds, make good fighters, but poor voters -- and drinkers.
The necessary qualities are not comparable.

And 17 year olds? Why not them...?

 

[Valjean]

If drunk driving is an issue, prohibit drunk driving, not driving or drinking.
I don't know how your statistics were/are but we have drunk drivers of all ages.

But 18-year-olds are more likely to be reckless and impulsive Alcohol only magnifies this; add a car and you're just asking for trouble.

 

[Heyo]

But 18-year-olds are more likely to be reckless and impulsive Alcohol only magnifies this; add a car and you're just asking for trouble.

[citation needed]

 

[Valjean]

And 17 year olds? Why not them...?

Why not them driving, or drinking, or fighting in the military?
17-year-olds are even more reckless, and inexperienced drivers. Alcohol disinhibits and adds to the recklessness.
Could make good soldiers, though.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why not them driving, or drinking, or fighting in the military.
17-year-olds are even more reckless, and inexperienced drivers. Alcohol disinhibits and adds to the recklessness.

Other countries seem to survive. I agree with you in general, but there should be a solution.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So this is just pure curiosity on my part.
As I understand it, you can enlist in the military at age 18 in the United States, regardless of the state. Correct?
But there are some (not all) states that stipulate the legal drinking age to be at minimum 21.
I’m under no delusions that people actually wait that long. I mean I’m Australian for crying out loud lol
But how is this seen in the states?
By that I mean is this a rule that is accepted by folks as reasonable? Generally speaking
Or is this a case where people might be inclined to look the other way if an underaged soldier snuck a beer or two?
Since they are, well, in the military.

I want to know your thoughts on this rule and what your observations have been.
Do you think the age should be lowered? Raised? Exceptions made for those serving?

Whatever you reckon, let me know!

I came into the military right when the legal drinking age became 21, but in the military, you were allowed to drink 3.2 beer (3.2% alcohol content) if you were under 21. I'm confident this is no longer a thing.

"You're old enough to die for your country, but you're not old enough to have a beer" never really sat well with me.

Personally, I don't see a huge disparity in maturity between 18 and 21. Quite a few sneak alcohol before they're 21 anyway. I snuck alcohol before I was of legal age. So did both my kids.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Why not them driving, or drinking, or fighting in the military?
17-year-olds are even more reckless, and inexperienced drivers. Alcohol disinhibits and adds to the recklessness.
Could make good soldiers, though.

I don't get how you think these impulsive, reckless people are sufficiently able to decide they can kill and be killed, but not to drink a Coors Lite.

Our P players (first 3 years of having a licence) have a zero alcohol limit.

 

[SomeRandom]

But 18-year-olds are more likely to be reckless and impulsive Alcohol only magnifies this; add a car and you're just asking for trouble.

And yet you let them in the military?
Bro. If you’re old enough to die, why shouldn’t you be old enough to drink?
Which is the normal argument
Either raise the military age or lower the drinking one
But I agree that 17 and 18 year olds are immature and impulsive

 

[Valjean]

Other countries seem to survive. I agree with you in general, but there should be a solution.

To which problem, specifically?

 

[Valjean]

I don't get how you think these impulsive, reckless people are sufficiently able to decide they can kill and be killed, but not to drink a Coors Lite.

Our P players (first 3 years of having a licence) have a zero alcohol limit.

Apples and oranges.
The qualities that make a good soldier are not those that make a responsible drinker.
The chances of a drinker being responsible are often inversely proportional to age.

Young people have less driving experience. Their responses are less automatic or reflexive than those of experienced drivers. They get into more accidents. Alcohol diminishes response time and coördination, further slowing response times -- and accident rates.

 

[Valjean]

And yet you let them in the military?

I don't let them in the military. I oppose the whole institution.
It's the military itself that finds youths' recklessness, enthusiasm, and and willingness to follow orders blindly beneficial. Older people are more cautious and more likely to think things through. They're more likely to question orders.

Bro. If you’re old enough to die, why shouldn’t you be old enough to drink?

Drinking is not a reward, nor do the qualities that make a good soldier translate to responsible drinking.
If you're reckless enough to rush into battle and die, you may be too reckless to drink responsibly.

Which is the normal argument
Either raise the military age or lower the drinking one

I say raise the military age to 70, and let the opposing batalions meet on the battlefield, pop open some beers, and discuss the matter rationally.

In re drinking age, my observation is that American youth is more likely to drink to get drunk than Europeans, who are more likely to have wine to enhance a meal or a pint to relax among friends.
I have, however, had lunch in French cafés and seen truckers drop in routinely for lunch and un demi of wine. Kind of worrisome...

But I agree that 17 and 18 year olds are immature and impulsive

I'll drink to that.

 

[HonestJoe]

Whatever you reckon, let me know!

They could resolve the issue by just banning anyone in the military from drinking. After all, the nation could be invaded at any moment so they always need to be ready to leap in to action.