Drug use and the religious.

[jmvizanko]

Why are many of the religious opposed to drug use? Can any of you give an argument based solely around your scriptures?

The bible seems to be opposed to drunkeness, but I've never seen it have anything to say about other specific drugs, which goes along with it being completely inexhaustive about all ethical issues. The best argument I have heard is the reference to the body being a temple. But there have been genius physicists that were pro the use of marijuana, so one can hardly make the claim that all dugs make people dumber and are necessarily detrimental to the body. It seems that people that arbitrarily have a problem with drugs just interpret whatever they can from their beliefs to suggest that it is wrong.

Certainly one can easily produce entirely secular arguments for why certain drugs are terrible, such as cocaine and heroin. But the opposite can be said of other drugs, such as shrooms being an incredibly positive and spiritual life experience, as noted in a Johns Hopkins study:

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html

And many religions have incorporated drug use for their spiritual and mind altering properties. So why, if your religion does not specifically prohibit drug use, would you neessarily need to be opposed, especially concerning the more benign and enjoyable drugs?

 

[ninerbuff]

Drug use affects decision making and for the religious lots of the decision making revolves around sex, violence and unacceptable behavior. However what most people don't know is that "drug use" is prevalent in that form of OTC on a regular basic. Sleep aids, pain meds etc. are used more than other illegal drugs.

 

[Midnight Pete]

It's not a matter of whether or not you use drugs, but rather which drugs do you use?

Caffeiene is my drug of choice. But for others it's crystal meth.

 

[jmvizanko]

Drug use affects decision making and for the religious lots of the decision making revolves around sex, violence and unacceptable behavior.

But many drugs do not lead to making poor decisions about these specific spheres of action. What exactly is harmful about smoking a joint and then proceeding to beat Gran Turismo 4 on the hardest setting?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Well caffeine and alcohol are my drugs of choice. Although if I could legally smoke pot, I would drink a lot less. But given that I could lose my career, its just not worth the risk. You better believe that the day I retire I'll be buying a pound though.

Do you agree that some drugs are too dangerous to touch? (Coke, meth, heroin, etc.)

 

[jmvizanko]

I think the rare person could use these responsibly enough, but its probably much better to just play it safe. You could be the one person who naturally has amlow biological tolerance for them and die on the first use, and not even from a high dose.

 

[ChristineES]

I can't condemn all drugs, like ones that are prescribed by doctors. But illicit/illegal drugs don't do any good. I don't see any good in heroin, crystal meth, coke, PCP, and more. And prescription drugs used by someone who does not need can be bad, too. Even too much alcohol can cause problems (my brother is a recovered alcoholic and has liver disease).
Caffeine, alcohol in moderation, etc. can be beneficial sometimes. But too much of anything is wrong.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I think the rare person could use these responsibly enough, but its probably much better to just play it safe. You could be the one person who naturally has amlow biological tolerance for them and die on the first use, and not even from a high dose.

And what about all the crime and death and suffering that results from people using illegal narcotics? How can you possibly justify that?

 

[ChristineES]

I just want everyone to know that isn't just my faith that gives me these ideas, but from experience. My family did drugs (I never did), I had an aunt die of cirrhosis of the liver after years of hard drinking when she was only 36. There has been marijuana use, cocaine use, and alcoholism in my family.

 

[Starsoul]

Why are many of the religious opposed to drug use? Can any of you give an argument based solely around your scriptures?

The bible seems to be opposed to drunkeness, but I've never seen it have anything to say about other specific drugs, which goes along with it being completely inexhaustive about all ethical issues. The best argument I have heard is the reference to the body being a temple. But there have been genius physicists that were pro the use of marijuana, so one can hardly make the claim that all dugs make people dumber and are necessarily detrimental to the body. It seems that people that arbitrarily have a problem with drugs just interpret whatever they can from their beliefs to suggest that it is wrong.

Certainly one can easily produce entirely secular arguments for why certain drugs are terrible, such as cocaine and heroin. But the opposite can be said of other drugs, such as shrooms being an incredibly positive and spiritual life experience, as noted in a Johns Hopkins study:

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html

And many religions have incorporated drug use for their spiritual and mind altering properties. So why, if your religion does not specifically prohibit drug use, would you neessarily need to be opposed, especially concerning the more benign and enjoyable drugs?

What seems benign in a limited dose becomes fatal in an extended dose, where do you draw the conscious line for using a stupor& hallucination inducing and reason blocking drug when you will 'stop knowing' when to stop? There is enough reason to stay away from drugs with or without any admonition from religion.

Religions discourage substances which give a false sense of elation, temporarily, because most idiots pick up on that false elation as the real elation and mentally reach a place where they feel they are flying high and infact they are leaning on the other side. All such substances reduce a person's grip on his consciousness and valid reasoning which actually makes him terribly slow to reason out any right from wrong. Its total human destruction.

I have not yet seen one person make it successful in life who has been addicted to heroin, all people start it for fun and laughter, and it completely takes hold of you and your aim in life, and then you're finished pretty quick. As for the lesser forms of drugs, dope etc, they lead one to higher potent forms like heroin because lesser forms stop being fun after some time.

 

[jmvizanko]

And what about all the crime and death and suffering that results from people using illegal narcotics? How can you possibly justify that?

What crime are you specifically talking about? Crime revolving around drug sellers? Because that would be completely non existent if drugs were legalized. Plus the tax benefits of legalizing drugs would be doubly great if the expensive war on drugs, which is basically ineffective anyway, was not being fought. And lord knows we need all the help we can get right now in combating our national debt, especially with socialists in power.

 

[jmvizanko]

I can't condemn all drugs, like ones that are prescribed by doctors. But illicit/illegal drugs don't do any good. I don't see any good in heroin, crystal meth, coke, PCP, and more. And prescription drugs used by someone who does not need can be bad, too. Even too much alcohol can cause problems (my brother is a recovered alcoholic and has liver disease).
Caffeine, alcohol in moderation, etc. can be beneficial sometimes. But too much of anything is wrong.

But what about lesser hardcore drugs than things like coke, meth etc? Give me an argument for why marijuana is a worse drug than alcohol, which you have claimed can be beneficial.

 

[jmvizanko]

What seems benign in a limited dose becomes fatal in an extended dose, where do you draw the conscious line for using a stupor& hallucination inducing and reason blocking drug when you will 'stop knowing' when to stop? There is enough reason to stay away from drugs with or without any admonition from religion.

Religions discourage substances which give a false sense of elation, temporarily, because most idiots pick up on that false elation as the real elation and mentally reach a place where they feel they are flying high and infact they are leaning on the other side. All such substances reduce a person's grip on his consciousness and valid reasoning which actually makes him terribly slow to reason out any right from wrong. Its total human destruction.

I have not yet seen one person make it successful in life who has been addicted to heroin, all people start it for fun and laughter, and it completely takes hold of you and your aim in life, and then you're finished pretty quick. As for the lesser forms of drugs, dope etc, they lead one to higher potent forms like heroin because lesser forms stop being fun after some time.

I don't buy the gateway drug argument for a second. I think its much more likely that a person willing to do any drugs is more inclined to try more hardcore drugs in time. But many, and in my experience, most people that try and enjoy the softer drugs like pot, are smart enough to never touch the hardcore, obviously dangerous drugs.

And once again, I think the reasons that the most hardcore drugs, especially their high physical addiction potential and extremely physically dangerous effects on a person's health, make their use admonishable. But there is no realistic possibility of overdose on marijuana, it barely impairs judgment and motor skills, it has a low physical addiction possibility, it makes sex quite enjoyable in a different way, and its fun as hell.

 

[ninerbuff]

But many drugs do not lead to making poor decisions about these specific spheres of action. What exactly is harmful about smoking a joint and then proceeding to beat Gran Turismo 4 on the hardest setting?

The assumption that taking or using a drug is progressive. First it's pot, then meth, then coke, then heroin.......

 

[jmvizanko]

The assumption that taking or using a drug is progressive. First it's pot, then meth, then coke, then heroin.......

And like I just said, I don't find that this is the case, or at least not most of the time with almost everyone I have ever known. There are plenty of responsible drug users that understand, based on the pros and cons, with addiction, physical danger, and enjoyment, what drugs should be stayed away from.

 

[ninerbuff]

And what about all the crime and death and suffering that results from people using illegal narcotics? How can you possibly justify that?

People kill themselves eating bad diets, willing. How do you justify that?

 

[Riverwolf]

Why are many of the religious opposed to drug use? Can any of you give an argument based solely around your scriptures?

Many modern Sages oppose drug use mainly because they feel uncomfortable (at least, I imagine) with the idea of putting foreign stuff in your body that it wasn't designed to process.

Ironic, seeing that ancient Sages of the Vedas drank the hallucinogenic drink Soma.

I don't think there' s anything in the Scriptures that outright forbids it, but nowadays, Hindu thought is best conveyed by the Sages, with the Scriptures as a secondary source. (At least, that's what it seems like.)

 

[Riverwolf]

But many drugs do not lead to making poor decisions about these specific spheres of action. What exactly is harmful about smoking a joint and then proceeding to beat Gran Turismo 4 on the hardest setting?

Well, as long as there aren't any children or asthmatics around, nothing. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

And what about all the crime and death and suffering that results from people using illegal narcotics? How can you possibly justify that?

Was that because of the drugs, or their natural dispositions?

The crime only exists because it's illegal.

The death is primarily from overdose. Too much of anything, even water, is deadly.

The suffering is also typically from overdose.

Did you know that the oldest person who ever lived (to the age of 122) smoked most of her life?

 

[jmvizanko]

People kill themselves eating bad diets, willing. How do you justify that?

And people die while irresponsibly rock climbing as well. Should we make rock climbing illegal? At what point do we say, if people want to do something that doesn't directly negatively affect somebody else, then for no other reason than freedom's sake, let them do it?