Drug use and the religious.

[MW0082]

You are right, in a way. We can agree to disagree on marijuana legalization. I live in California and in about 2 weeks I get to vote on whether it legal in California or not. I haven't decided yet (really).

I can't tell you what to do, but for marijuana to me at least. I only see it helping people. it helps me, it helps cancer and AID's ridden patients and many more. I have never heard of marijuana doing something bad to anyone. Maybe someone tried it and din't like it but they lived didn't they?

I say if you want to smoke some pot to be in a lighter mood and relax, by all means as long as your not hurting anyone do it. it's here for a reason I say....:yes:

 

[ninerbuff]

Why are certain drugs deemed illegal in the first place? Because of the damage they cause to society. Drug-addiction damages the individual who in turn damages society. It all starts in the home, where one family member makes life a living hell for the rest of the family. The human cost of drug-addiction is just too high.

There is no such thing as a safe drug in the world. There are some that have less side effects. But let me just counter you here for a minute. Anabolic steroids are a class III schedule drug making it illegal. Before a bill was signed in 1990, they were available for purchase without a prescription. Why was it made illegal? Because athletes were using them as enhancement to be better in their sport. It had nothing to do with addiction, or damaging an individual. It was because of a moral issue. A moral issue that pro players couldn't abide by, but the president at the time (Bush) took it upon himself to impose that moral on everyone. HRT used to be affordable for many of it's "users", but now because of the US cracking down, the expense has gone up. And did it stop anabolic steroid use? Just pick up your local bodybuilding magazine and you'll see it didn't. Are pro players still getting busted? Yep. And now all this has done is pushed genetics technology a little faster forward. Get ready for gene doping.

 

[ninerbuff]

Well if there's no such thing as crime, it would go down 100%, yes?

There will always be crime. The key is to keep it low. Making things that people want illegal raises the cost and if the cost is high, then the people that want it will find different ways to get it. It may be stealing for it, identity theft, etc. but when something that people urge, want, desire are unavailable at hand, they'll find ways to afford it.

 

[tomato1236]

There will always be crime. The key is to keep it low. Making things that people want illegal raises the cost and if the cost is high, then the people that want it will find different ways to get it. It may be stealing for it, identity theft, etc. but when something that people urge, want, desire are unavailable at hand, they'll find ways to afford it.

So we should only outlaw things that people already don't want to do?

 

[ninerbuff]

You are right, in a way. We can agree to disagree on marijuana legalization. I live in California and in about 2 weeks I get to vote on whether it legal in California or not. I haven't decided yet (really).

Let me help you. Go to a cancer ward where they are in pain and marijuana is the drug used to suppress it. If you could just help just 1 person by legalizing it, shouldn't you because from a religious standpoint, your jesus would have done it?

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

And don't say it isn't addictive, because I know better.

i really like you, and i respect everything you say. but you're just wrong in this instance.
it's not the users that are reporting that marijuana is not chemically addictive, it's the very few scientific studies that are being allowed that put marijuana out of the addictive drug category. this does not rule out dependency on marijuana in users, it simply means that the drug itself is not what's addictive. it could be the experience, it could be the escape (for those who use it for escapism), it could be the rebellion, or it could just be that these people you're familiar with like to get high. the only reason i keep using is because i enjoy the effects, being dry doesn't ruin my day.

Marijuana is a hallucinogen, according to a class I took in college.

i absolutely agree, despite what the DEA schedules marijuana as, i've always considered it a hallucinogen (because it causes synesthesia and other hallucinations) and a psychedelic.

Why are certain drugs deemed illegal in the first place? Because of the damage they cause to society.

false, most of the reason drugs are illegal in the US is because of private interests, be it pharmaceutical companies or timber companies or alcohol companies. it's really hard to be naive enough to really think that drugs are illegal because they hurt anyone.

It all starts in the home, where one family member makes life a living hell for the rest of the family. The human cost of drug-addiction is just too high.

first of all, not everyone has a family that relies on them. so this argument only works for breeders. and second, there are millions of parents that use marijuana in moderation and cause absolutely no problems for their families. many of them are even open and honest with their families about their use and dont let it negatively effect the family unit.

That would be true. If someone is addicted to something, they would go out of their way to get it; no matter the consequence. Addicts in need of their drug can be dangerous, so I've heard.

yes, addicts who NEED their drug can be dangerous.
but the lengths people go to acquire something are not indicative of their addiction. people don't download music illegally because they NEED the music, they do it because they like it and they dont like paying for it. people dont pay prostitutes because they NEED sex, they do it because they simply like it. and to be honest, legality is hardly a gigantic hurdle for many people. on a sunday in georgia it's easier to get a sack then it is to buy a six pack.

I agree that the gateway arguement is moot. If drugs were legal the majority of these people wouldnty even do them.
Drug trying for the most part is BECAUSE they make it illegal and tempting. People generally want to rebel, and so doing drugs is one of them. you take away the risk and rebellioness of it. people will stop trying it....

i would disagree, outside of teenagers and mid-life-crisis stricken adults most people just buy and use drugs because they want to. legalizing would probably result in a short and temporary influx of 'tryers' and then peter out to most people growing their own and leaving gangsters out of their otherwise legal life.

 

[Riverwolf]

Why are certain drugs deemed illegal in the first place? Because of the damage they cause to society. Drug-addiction damages the individual who in turn damages society. It all starts in the home, where one family member makes life a living hell for the rest of the family. The human cost of drug-addiction is just too high.

So why aren't alcohol, tobacco, and World of Warcraft illegal?

 

[jmvizanko]

Why are certain drugs deemed illegal in the first place? Because of the damage they cause to society.

And this explains why alcohol is legal and marijuana is not, even though in every way a drug could be worse for society, or even just for a person, alcohol is worse than marijuana? That this is the case is a huge illustration of why drug laws are not based on some kind of unbiased logic. What was illegal stays illegal, and what is legal stays legal, simply because that's what it was before. I mean, if you look at the rules for drug scheduling, there is no reason to place marijuana where it is logically according to the requirements, and alcohol belongs right at schedule 1.

 

[BruceDLimber]

[M]ost drugs don't stop your ability to think; they just temporarily alter the way the mind does think....

Precisely: they interfere with its proper functioning, as I said!

Once again, my religion prohibits psychoactive drugs for the best of reasons!

I--for one--prefer to live my life fully aware and conscious, thankyouverymuch!

Bruce

 

[MW0082]

i would disagree, outside of teenagers and mid-life-crisis stricken adults most people just buy and use drugs because they want to. legalizing would probably result in a short and temporary influx of 'tryers' and then peter out to most people growing their own and leaving gangsters out of their otherwise legal life.

Incorrect, you take a place like Amsterdam, because it is the only country that has legalized boradly enough, and they have a rate about 14% of teenagers and young adults trying marijuna. In the United States it's 50%, now that is a drastic statistic. It shows that if you take the sting out of it, it's not so much fun anymore. Yes some will try it, but they will also try alcohol and cigarettes and much more. We need to be realalistic about this.....:yes:

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Incorrect, you take a place like Amsterdam, because it is the only country that has legalized boradly enough, and they have a rate about 14% of teenagers and young adults trying marijuna. In the United States it's 50%, now that is a drastic statistic. It shows that if you take the sting out of it, it's not so much fun anymore. Yes some will try it, but they will also try alcohol and cigarettes and much more. We need to be realalistic about this.....:yes:

so why do so many people go to Amsterdam (a city) from places where the drugs are illegal, in order to try them under legal conditions? no rebellion, just a desire for freedom to use the drugs they like.
(and with your drastic statistic i would like a source, please.)

i'm not saying that a number of people dont try these drugs because they are illegal and they want to rebel. i'm saying that the majority of users dont do so because of the legal ramifications or the moral stigma, they use because they enjoy their experience - the law is merely an inconvenient stumbling block.

 

[Breathe]

Ironic, seeing that ancient Sages of the Vedas drank the hallucinogenic drink Soma.

I'm not sure if soma was hallucinogenic, since Swami Rama described taking it but does not describe any hallucinogenic effects. Soma may have been the root-extracts of the ephedra plant. Even if it's not a hallucinogen though, it's still something similar to caffeine in a way, so your point still stands.





To the OP, Personally, I don't take any intoxicating substances, no pot, no narcotics, no alcohol. I've recently stopped consuming caffeine, too. ETA: Although me not drinking caffeine recently is just something that's fallen into place. I'm not avoiding it, so much as I just haven't drunk it.

Mine is pretty much a personal choice to avoid consuming narcotics, as opposed to a religious one: I like to be aware of my actions and in control of myself at all times and I just don't feel a need for them. If people want to smoke pot and do LSD and other softcore nacrotics, that's their choice as long as it's not around myself, vulnerable people (including children and the infirm) and people who do not wish to be in there. I've had people attempting to pressure me into taking them, and I've always refused, but I've known some people who try the drugs out of peer-pressure, sadly.

I've sat on a bus when several people have lit up some ganja, and it's not pleasant to be stuck with something you don't like nor enjoy the smell of wafting in your nostrils for forty minutes, whilst knowing you can't get off the bus to go to the next one or you'll be late.



Basically my take on it is, do what you want, as long as it doesn't impose on others who do not wish to be part of it, and don't bother others with it and we're cool.

My take, anyway.

 

[MW0082]

so why do so many people go to Amsterdam (a city) from places where the drugs are illegal, in order to try them under legal conditions? no rebellion, just a desire for freedom to use the drugs they like.
(and with your drastic statistic i would like a source, please.)

i'm not saying that a number of people dont try these drugs because they are illegal and they want to rebel. i'm saying that the majority of users dont do so because of the legal ramifications or the moral stigma, they use because they enjoy their experience - the law is merely an inconvenient stumbling block.

I can not give you the source currently I am at work. It is ironic that this all came up, because I watched a movie last night called High. It was documentary, very riviting. that is where I got the info. Your more than welcome to check on Hulu, or I can get it tonight at home.....

 

[jmvizanko]

Precisely: they interfere with its proper functioning, as I said!

Once again, my religion prohibits psychoactive drugs for the best of reasons!

I--for one--prefer to live my life fully aware and conscious, thankyouverymuch!

Bruce

Who is to say it is improper functioning? Different functioning, sure, but why necessarily bad, given the enjoyable and useful qualities many of them have?

If you don't want to do any drugs ever, fair enough. But the argument you have put forth, IMO, isn't valid. And if you believe in a god who created everything, then why did he create curious substances that have pleasurable and fascinating effects on the brain, many of which don't necessarily damage the brain?

 

[Father Heathen]

So you might agree when I say that the body is a temple of God. And to pollute the temple, to destroy it in such an evil way, would be to spit in His face.

So am I to assume you're a strict health nut? Why aren't you out exercising instead of slouching at the computer?

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't do any of that. Never said I did.

Why are you changing the subject? This thread is about drug use.

You're the one who brought up the body being a sacred temple. We just want to make sure your viewpoint is actually consistent.

 

[Father Heathen]

Probably, but I am no health-food nut.

So you admit to "polluting the temple and spitting in god's face", as you put it?

 

[Midnight Pete]

So am I to assume you're a strict health nut? Why aren't you out exercising instead of slouching at the computer?

I never said I was a strict health nut or meant to imply that I was. And you make a good point about my insuffieient exercise. See, I'm not really "better than you" at all. If I ever make that claim, people are already scrutinizing me for faults. I have a lot of faults and I make no pretense about being superior to you or anyone on RF.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why are certain drugs deemed illegal in the first place? Because of the damage they cause to society. Drug-addiction damages the individual who in turn damages society. It all starts in the home, where one family member makes life a living hell for the rest of the family. The human cost of drug-addiction is just too high.

So I assume you believe that alcohol, tobacco and even caffeine should be made illegal then? To say no would make you a hypocrite.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well if there's no such thing as crime, it would go down 100%, yes?

Disingenuous. They obviously meant actual, serious crimes seemingly associated with and caused by victimless crimes.