Du'a Nudba contradicts the Bahai Faith.

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هَلْ إِِلَيْكَ يَا بْنَ احْمَدَ سَبِيلٌ فَتُلْقَىٰ
hal ilayka yabna ahmada sabilun fatulqa
Is there any way to meet you, O son of Ahmad (the Prophet)?

 

[Link]

There is also the connecting reality of Mohammad (s) in Quran and there is always a person with that position:

ايْنَ بَابُ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِي مِنْهُ يُؤْتَىٰ
ayna babu allahi alladhi minhu yu'ta
Where is the door of Allah from which Allah is come?

ايْنَ وَجْهُ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِي إِِلَيْهِ يَتَوَجَّهُ ٱلاوْلِيَاءُ
ayna wajhu allahi alladhi ilayhi yatawajjahu al-awliya'u
Where is the Face of Allah towards whom the saints turn their faces.

ايْنَ ٱلسَّبَبُ ٱلْمُتَّصِلُ بَيْنَ ٱلارْضِ وَٱلسَّمَاءِ
ayna alssababu almuttasilu bayna al-ardi walssama'i
Where is the means of access that is connectedly extended between the earth and the heavens.



And there is the fact there is always a Baqiyatallah on earth:

ايْنَ بَقِيَّةُ ٱللَّهِ
ayna baqiyyatu allahi
Where is the remain of God

ٱلَّتِي لاََ تَخْلُو مِنَ ٱلْعِتْرَةِ ٱلْهَادِيةِ
allati la takhlu min al`itrati alhadiyati
that is never gone from the guiding family

 

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There is also interpretation to 13:7, which shows that Ali (a) being successor to Mohammad (s) is implied by the fact there is for every people a guide.



falamma inqadat ayyamuhu
When his (i.e. the Prophet) days passed,

اقَامَ وَلِيَّهُ عَلِيَّ بْنَ ابِي طَالِبٍ
aqama waliyyahu `aliyya bna abi talibin
he appointed as successor his vicegerent `Ali the son of Abu-Talib,

صَلَوَاتُكَ عَلَيْهِمَا وَآلِهِمَا هَادِياً
salawatuka `alayhima wa alihima hadiyan
Your blessings be upon both of them and their Household,

إِِذْ كَانَ هُوَ ٱلْمُنْذِرَ
idh kana huwa almundhira
because he (the Prophet) was the warner

وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ
wa likulli qawmin hadin
and for every people there is a Guide



13:7 shows there is always a person who can perform miracles who is the guide. The guide thus must be alive and this is confirmed in this Du'a.

Bahai Faith does not have present living guide from God, so this contradicts this interpretation in Du'a Nudba about 13:7.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I believe Bahai Faith is built on dishonesty to the Quran and hadiths. This thread however is particularly, about, Dua Nudba and it contradicting Bahai Faith.

I will quote a relevant part that contradicts it clearly:


mata tarana wa naraka wa qad nasharta liwa'a alnnasri tura
When will you see us and we see you spreading the pennon of victory?

اتَرَانَا نَحُفُّ بِكَ وَانْتَ تَؤُمُّ ٱلْمَلَا
atarana nahuffu bika wa anta ta'ummu almala'a
Can it be that we surround you while you are leading the groups,

وَقَدْ مَلَاتَ ٱلارْضَ عَدْلاًَ
wa qad mala'ta al-arda `adlan
after you will have filled in the earth with justice,

وَاذَقْتَ اعْدَاءَكَ هَوَاناً وَعِقَاباً
wa adhaqta a`da'aka hawanan wa `iqaban
tasted your enemies humiliation and punishment,

وَابَرْتَ ٱلْعُتَاةَ وَجَحَدَةَ ٱلْحَقِّ
wa abarta al`utata wa jahadata alhaqqi
annihilated the insolent defiant and the deniers of the truth,

وَقَطَعْتَ دَابِرَ ٱلْمُتَكَبِّرِينَ
wa qata`ta dabira almutakabbirina
cut off the roots of the arrogant,

وَٱجْتَثَثْتَ اصُولَ ٱلظَّالِمِينَ
wajtathathta usula alzzalimina
eradicated the sources of the wrongdoers,

وَنَحْنُ نَقُولُ ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ ٱلْعَالَمِينَ
wa nahnu naqulu alhamdu lillahi rabbi al`alamina
and we keep on saying, “All praise be to Allah the Lord of the worlds?”



Bab and Baha'allah are not seen now as they are gone. Of course, you can say metaphorically they are seen as in their example exists or something, but I don't care for it to be honest. You are dishonest.

These lines and others in the Prayer show Bahai Faith has a contradiction essentially. It acknowledges Du'a Nudba.

Another part:

فَاغِثْ يَا غِيَاثَ ٱلْمُسْتَغِيثِينَ عُبَيْدَكَ ٱلْمُبْتَلَىٰ
fa'aghith ya ghiyatha almustaghithina `ubaydaka almubtala
So, (please) aid Your agonized worthless servant, O Aide of those who seek aid,

وَارِهِ سَيِّدَهُ يَا شَدِيدَ ٱلْقُوَىٰ
wa arihi sayyidahu ya shadida alquwa
grant him (i.e. Your servant) chance to see his master, O Lord of mighty prowess,

وَازِلْ عَنْهُ بِهِ ٱلاسَىٰ وَٱلْجَوَىٰ
wa azil `anhu bihi al-asa waljawa
remove from him misfortune and anguish, in the name of his master,

وَبَرِّدْ غَلِيلَهُ يَا مَنْ عَلَىٰ ٱلْعَرْشِ ٱسْتَوَىٰ
wa barrid ghalilahu ya man `ala al`arshi istawa
and satisfy his thirst, O He Who is established on the Throne

وَمَنْ إِِلَيْهِ ٱلرُّجْعَىٰ وَٱلْمُنْتَهَىٰ
wa man ilayhi alrruj`a walmuntaha
and He to Whom is the return and the final goal.

اَللَّهُمَّ وَنَحْنُ عَبِيدُكَ ٱلتَّائِقُونَ إِلَىٰ وَلِيِّكَ
allahumma wa nahnu `abiduka altta'iquna ila waliyyika
O Allah, we are Your servants who are fervently willing to meet Your vicegerent,

ٱلْمُذَكِّرِ بِكَ وَبِنَبِيِّكَ
almudhakkiri bika wa binabiyyika
who reminds of You and Your Prophet;

خَلَقْتَهُ لَنَا عِصْمَةً وَمَلاَذاً
khalaqtahu lana `ismatan wa maladhan
and whom You have created as haven and refuge for us,

وَاقَمْتَهُ لَنَا قِوَاماً وَمَعَاذاً
wa aqamtahu lana qiwaman wa ma`adhan
You have appointed as foundation and source of protection for us,

وَجَعَلْتَهُ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنَّا إِِمَاماً
wa ja`altahu lilmu'minina minna imaman
and whom You have made to be the leader of the believers among us.





To you, only those who witnessed Baha'allah or Bab can be said to have seen him. Yet this Du'a shows believers - God allows them to see him - and that he is their leader, refuge and guide.

To see, means, to "Recognize" Him.

This prayer is begging God, He may assist a believer to Recognize the Qaim, after He has manifested. So, it includes now, in our time!

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I don't believe you.

Wowww, you really think that, I know there is a verse in the Quran that says Quran is the Final Book of God?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This is the ending:

وَصِلِ ٱللَّهُمَّ بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَهُ
wa sil allahumma baynana wa baynahu
establish, O Allah, between him and us

وُصْلَةً تُؤَدِّي إِلَىٰ مُرَافَقَةِ سَلَفِهِ
wuslatan tu'addi ila murafaqati salafihi
a connection that leads us to accompany his ancestors,

وَٱجْعَلْنَا مِمَّنْ يَاخُذُ بِحُجْزَتِهِمْ
waj`alna mimman ya'khudhu bihujzatihim
include us with those who will take their vengeance

وَيَمْكُثُ فِي ظِلِّهِمْ
wa yamkuthu fi zillihim
and keep constant under their shadow,

وَاعِنَّا عَلَىٰ تَادِيَةِ حُقُوقِهِ إِِلَيْهِ
wa a`inna `ala ta'diyati huquqihi ilayhi
help us fulfill our duties towards him,

وَٱلِٱجْتِهَادِ فِي طَاعَتِهِ
walijtihadi fi ta`atihi
exert all efforts in obedience to him

وَٱجْتِنَابِ مَعْصِيَتِهِ
wajtinabi ma`siyatihi
and avoiding disobeying him,

وَٱمْنُنْ عَلَيْنَا بِرِضَاهُ
wamnun `alayna biridahu
bestow upon us with the favor of attaining his pleasure,

وَهَبْ لَنَا رَافَتَهُ وَرَحْمَتَهُ
wa hab lana ra'fatahu wa rahmatahu
and grant us his kindness, mercy,

وَدُعَاءَهُ وَخَيْرَهُ
wa du`a'ahu wa khayrahu
prayer (for us), and his goodness

مَا نَنَالُ بِهِ سَعَةً مِنْ رَحْمَتِكَ
ma nanalu bihi sa`atan min rahmatika
in an amount due to which we will gain a good deal of Your mercy

وَفَوْزاً عِنْدَكَ
wa fawzan `indaka
and achievement with You.

وَٱجْعَلْ صَلاَتَنَا بِهِ مَقبُولَةً
waj`al salatana bihi maqbulatan
And, through him, render our prayers admitted,

وَذُنُوبَنَا بِهِ مَغْفُورَةً
wa dhunubana bihi maghfuratan
our sins forgiven,

وَدُعَاءَنَا بِهِ مُسْتَجَاباً
wa du`a'ana bihi mustajaban
and our supplications responded.

وَٱجْعَلْ ارْزَاقَنَا بِهِ مَبْسُوطَةً
waj`al arzaqana bihi mabsutatan
And, through him too, make our sustenance expanded for us,

وَهُمُومَنَا بِهِ مَكْفِيَّةً
wa humumana bihi makfiyyatan
our distresses relieved,

وَحَوَائِجَنَا بِهِ مَقْضِيَّةً
wa hawa'ijana bihi maqdiyyatan
and our needs granted.

وَاقْبِلْ إِِلَيْنَا بِوَجْهِكَ ٱلْكَرِيـمِ
wa aqbil ilayna biwajhika alkarimi
And (please) receive us with Your Noble Face,

وَٱقْبَلْ تَقَرُّبَنَا إِِلَيْكَ
waqbal taqarrubana ilayka
approve of our seeking nearness to You,

وَٱنْظُرْ إِِلَيْنَا نَظْرَةً رَحِيمَةً
wanzur ilayna nazratan rahimatan
and have a merciful look at us

نَسْتَكْمِلُ بِهَا ٱلْكَرَامَةَ عِنْدَكَ
nastakmilu biha alkaramata `indaka
by which we will win perfect honor with You;

ثُمَّ لاََ تَصْرِفْهَا عَنَّا بِجُودِكَ
thumma la tasrifha `anna bijudika
and, after that, do not ever take it away from us, in the name of Your magnanimity,

وَٱسْقِنَا مِنْ حَوْضِ جَدِّهِ
wasqina min hawdi jaddihi
and give us a drink from the Pond of his grandfather,

صَلَّىٰ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ
salla allahu `alayhi wa alihi
may Allah bless him and his Household,

بِكَاسِهِ وَبِيَدِهِ
bika'sihi wa biyadihi
from his own cup and with his own hand,

رَيّاً رَوِيّاً
rayyan rawiyyan
such a replete, satiating,

هَنِيئاً سَائِغاً
hani'an sa'ighan
pleasant, and wholesome drink

لاََ ظَمَا بَعْدَهُ
la zama'a ba`dahu
after which we shall never suffer from thirst.

يَا ارْحَمَ ٱلرَّاحِمينَ
ya arhama alrrahimina
O most merciful of all those who show mercy!





This has to do with the Kawthar and that Imam (a) is the means to it.

Do you believe Kawthar is literally a Spring of water, or do you believe it is a symbol?

"O MY SERVANT! Abandon not for that which perisheth an everlasting dominion, and cast not away celestial sovereignty for a worldly desire. This is the river of everlasting life that hath flowed from the well-spring of the pen of the merciful; well is it with them that drink! " Baha'u'llah

 

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Do you believe Kawthar is literally a Spring of water, or do you believe it is a symbol?

Neither physical nor a symbol.

 

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To see, means, to "Recognize" Him.

This prayer is begging God, He may assist a believer to Recognize the Qaim, after He has manifested. So, it includes now, in our time!

It could've used those words, but as usual, you change the phrase to slightly something different and think it's a valid interpretation.

 

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Wowww, you really think that, I know there is a verse in the Quran that says Quran is the Final Book of God?

Yes, just like you know what the day of judgment is. You deceive yourself otherwise.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It could've used those words, but as usual, you change the phrase to slightly something different and think it's a valid interpretation.

Yes, it could have used, but did not want to be explicit for a reason. Hence, the Quran and Hadith say, some of the verses and Hadithes are Mutishabihat.
One needs to realize why some of its verses are said in Mutishabihat. God could have said everything using Muhkamaat, in a way that is explicit and clear to everyone, even to the disbelievers, but did not do that, rather for some verses, He uses a language called Mutishabihat, which requires Taweel, why? He uses Mutishabihat verses, and does not tell which ones are Mutishabihat and which ones are Muhkamaat, rather it leaves it to the readers judgment to figure it out, why?
The problem is, many Muslims do not want to think too deeply about Quran. They just want to go to heaven, that's all.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes, just like you know what the day of judgment is. You deceive yourself otherwise.

You can wait for the Judgement Day that you believe to come. I tried to help.

 

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Yes, it could have used, but did not want to be explicit for a reason. Hence, the Quran and Hadith say, some of the verses and Hadithes are Mutishabihat.
One needs to realize why some of its verses are said in Mutishabihat. God could have said everything using Muhkamaat, in a way that is explicit and clear to everyone, even to the disbelievers, but did not do that, rather for some verses, He uses a language called Mutishabihat, which requires Taweel, why? He uses Mutishabihat verses, and does not tell which ones are Mutishabihat and which ones are Muhkamaat, rather it leaves it to the readers judgment to figure it out, why?
The problem is, many Muslims do not want to think too deeply about Quran. They just want to go to heaven, that's all.

There are no mutishabihat verses. Two things comes from Quran, clear signs and mutashibihat, the latter is due to injustice of humans. That is why it condemns the ones who follow what is unclear. The unclear comes from their attitude to the Quran.

But you changing sentences to mean something different then what they say has nothing to do with this. It's a whole a new level of deception to yourself.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There are no mutishabihat verses.

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muḥammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific.1 As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allāh. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

— Saheeh International

Two things comes from Quran, clear signs and mutashibihat,

regardless you call them signs or verses, you didnt answer the questions really, but that's ok. It is understandable

the latter is due to injustice of humans. That is why it condemns the ones who follow what is unclear. The unclear comes from their attitude to the Quran.

Give a couple of examples to prove your view.
Quote an example of Mutishabihat and show that is due to injustice of humans as you are saying here. Show how they follow the Mutishabihat and that is injustice. Show a reall and practical case, and prove it that, the Imams or Muhammad have said that example, otherwise it will be just your own guess (ظن).

But you changing sentences to mean something different then what they say has nothing to do with this. It's a whole a new level of deception to yourself.

What did i change? What is the deception?

 

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Quote an example of Mutishabihat and show that is due to injustice of humans as you are saying here.

For example 4:59. The context makes it clear but people are oblivious to the context (majority of Muslims). Another example is there are bunch of reward accusation verses and they have context within surah but with respect to each other as well. Together they make a clear case that the family of Mohammad (s) are the means and path to God. But people don't give the context neither mini regarding any of them nor together nor within the bigger context in the Surah to give the meaning.

 

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regardless you call them signs or verses, you didnt answer the questions really, but that's ok. It is understandable

The Quran always says the signs are clear and manifest. The "unclear" is referring to what comes from the Quran, not the signs. Through out Quran it has shown it's injustice combination with sorcery from Iblis that blinds people to Quran. Not that it's actually unclear.

It's a warning to be sincere to Quran and not follow unclear from it. The unclearness is always due to one own views, never the Quran's. If Quran is given the right to interpret itself, and we hold to what is clear, it will only produce clear signs.

 

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What did i change? What is the deception?

You make a different sentence that has similarity and closeness to the original, but is not the actual sentence.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

For example 4:59. The context makes it clear but people are oblivious to the context (majority of Muslims). Another example is there are bunch of reward accusation verses and they have context within surah but with respect to each other as well. Together they make a clear case that the family of Mohammad (s) are the means and path to God. But people don't give the context neither mini regarding any of them nor together nor within the bigger context in the Surah to give the meaning.

4:59. You mean this is about the Shia Imams.
But Quran could have been more clear. God could have said in the Quran, there will be 12 imams, who are infallible after Muhammad. All Muslims must follow them, after Muhammad. Why He did not say more clear? Have a logical answer, and back it up by Hadith and Quran.
If you show the verse to a Sunni, they will not agree, the verse supports Shia, because it is agaist their sect.
If you show it to Shia, they agree it supports Shia, because they are biased.

If you show 4:59 to people who are not biased, let's say a Christian or Atheists, they also cannot agree this is clearlt about the 12 Imams of Shia, because the verse does not provide detailed info.
Now, my question is, why God did not provide more details to make the verse more clear and specific? You need to have a fair answer.

 

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4:59. You mean this is about the Shia Imams.
But Quran could have been more clear. God could have said in the Quran, there will be 12 imams, who are infallible after Muhammad. All Muslims must follow them, after Muhammad. Why He did not say more clear? Have a logical answer, and back it up by Hadith and Quran.
If you show the verse to a Sunni, they will not agree, the verse supports Shia, because it is agaist their sect.
If you show it to Shia, they agree it supports Shia, because they are biased.

If you show 4:59 to people who are not biased, let's say a Christian or Atheists, they also cannot agree this is clearlt about the 12 Imams of Shia, because the verse does not provide detailed info.
Now, my question is, why God did not provide more details to make the verse more clear and specific? You need to have a fair answer.

I think the context makes it clear enough. Why isn't more clearer:

Questions of Zanadiqa on Quran | Hubeali.com

Questions of a Non-Believer on the Holy Quran[1] Once, a nonbeliever came to Amir-ul-Mo’mineen-asws and said: Ya Amir-ul-Mo’mineen-asws: I would have embraced your religion but I found many inconsistencies and contradictions in Quran. Amir-ul-Mo’mineen-asws: Tell me about your findings...

www.hubeali.com

Here is part of it:

And similarly, Allah-azwj’s words on ‘Salam to the children of Yaseen’[124], as Allah-azwj called His Prophet-saww with the name of ‘Yaseen’, and Says: Yaseen, by the wisdom filled Quran, You are indeed among the Prophets’[125]. This title was used due to the fact that it was in the knowledge of Allah-azwj that they will eliminate His-azwj Words ‘Salam ala Alay Mohammed’ in the similar manner as they did so to some of His-azwj other Words.


Imam Ali (a) is saying that in the past revelations were corrupted in text, so God is clear but less clear than he can be, to give room for misinterpretation instead so as to preserve the text of the Quran.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think the context makes it clear enough. Why isn't more clearer:

Questions of Zanadiqa on Quran | Hubeali.com

Questions of a Non-Believer on the Holy Quran[1] Once, a nonbeliever came to Amir-ul-Mo’mineen-asws and said: Ya Amir-ul-Mo’mineen-asws: I would have embraced your religion but I found many inconsistencies and contradictions in Quran. Amir-ul-Mo’mineen-asws: Tell me about your findings...

www.hubeali.com

Here is part of it:

And similarly, Allah-azwj’s words on ‘Salam to the children of Yaseen’[124], as Allah-azwj called His Prophet-saww with the name of ‘Yaseen’, and Says: Yaseen, by the wisdom filled Quran, You are indeed among the Prophets’[125]. This title was used due to the fact that it was in the knowledge of Allah-azwj that they will eliminate His-azwj Words ‘Salam ala Alay Mohammed’ in the similar manner as they did so to some of His-azwj other Words.


Imam Ali (a) is saying that in the past revelations were corrupted in text, so God is clear but less clear than he can be, to give room for misinterpretation instead so as to preserve the text of the Quran.

There is no verse in Quran in support of previous texts became corrupted. Only corrupted in interpretation is meant.
Why do you think, God did not protect the Books He had sent as guidance to people?
Any logical answer?
4:59 is not clear, that is why, Hadithes are used to interpret them.
3:7 says, only the well-grounded in knowledge can know its interpretation.
Quran verses are clear only to well-grounded in knowledge, the chosen ones. Other men are imperfect, fallible and sinner. Their heart is attached to worldly things, and selfish desires. For this reason, we need infallible chosen ones to tell us, its correct interpretation.
But, you really did not answer the questions. Why did God leave room to misinterpretation? Why He did not provide more details?

 

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There is no verse in Quran in support of previous texts became corrupted. Only corrupted in interpretation is meant.
Why do you think, God did not protect the Books He had sent as guidance to people?
Any logical answer?
4:59 is not clear, that is why, Hadithes are used to interpret them.
3:7 says, only the well-grounded in knowledge can know its interpretation.
Quran verses are clear only to well-grounded in knowledge, the chosen ones. Other men are imperfect, fallible and sinner. Their heart is attached to worldly things, and selfish desires. For this reason, we need infallible chosen ones to tell us, its correct interpretation.
But, you really did not answer the questions. Why did God leave room to misinterpretation? Why He did not provide more details?

Now you are going all over the place. I answered the question, but you didn't like the answer.