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Dying Prior To Jesus

Where did the dead go?


  • Total voters
    26

Grumpuss

Active Member
Q: for the BILLIONS of people (regardless of evolutionary state) that died prior to Jesus, where did they go upon their death?

This question is mostly for Christians, but feel free to chime in.
My opinion is that it really doesn't matter who died before or after Jesus. God sets the rules on how we shall spend eternity, and it was in His plan how this should be accomplished from the moment of creation. Worrying about what happens to in baptized babies or virtuous pre-Christians is an academic point, at best.

I answered "afterlife" because testing and qualifying for our spiritual salvation is our primary mission on the mortal plane. We have enough challenge here already with our own souls, trying to protect them from interference & corruption of the 3 million+ demons on Earth, as well as the imminent war against the Antichrist.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
What do you mean by "damned"?
Damnation (also called reprobation) is an irrevocable loss of God. It is the state of eternal punishment for those who reject God with finality.

No one could achieve salvation before the redemption, but not everyone before that redemption was damned. 'Hell' as meant in the creed refers to Sheol, where the righteous awaited until the time when they would be redeemed (as with the living) by Christ. This is not the 'Hell' of those who are eternally punished, where redemption is impossible.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Actually, the 144,000 are specifically those who are the servants of God during the "great tribulation" -in the great tribulation. They are the "remnant of her [the woman's] seed" in the following.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those who have preached the actual gospel of the kingdom before the tribulation are persecuted fiercely before the tribulation [the woman above] -but are spared experiencing the tribulation by being given a place of safety.

Though the 144,000 serve a specific purpose, many others -a great multitude -will repent during the tribulation and receive immortality at the first resurrection/return of Christ. Some will be alive when Christ returns -but some will have been killed.
The dead in Christ will rise first -the living will be caught up with them -and they will be changed.
No. A remnant is a part of something. I think it is usually considered a small part of something. I guess you do not sew.
The 144,000 are not all from the time of the end.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
Too bad you don't have true "Scripture." All you (we) have are copies of copies. The originals, which are called the Autographs, have long since been lost or destroyed. Many went up in flames when Nebuchadnezzar II (Persia) destroyed much of Jerusalem. Those copies are subject to human error, therefore no perfect Scripture exists.

It is fine to believe that the Autographs were inerrant, but since we don't have them, it is a moot point.

No scripture exists? Who mislead you and dragged you away from the truth that is Jesus Christ?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No scripture exists? Who mislead you and dragged you away from the truth that is Jesus Christ?
If they haven't already, people will ignore you if you do not stop calling everything EITHER black OR white.
Why would we be here arguing for scripture if no scripture exists?
 

roger1440

I do stuff
33"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34"So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Matthew 6:33,34
 

Demonslayer

Well-Known Member
that you would always choose the Bible right or wrong

LOL. Isn't the point to be good, or on the side of "right?" "Right or wrong" seems like the exact problem with religion. Islamic terrorists are going to blow you up, right or wrong, because of this kind of reasoning. Modern American Christians are going to stand on the street corner with hateful anti-gay signs, right or wrong, because they choose the Bible no matter what.

If you step back and see something you believe in is wrong, is it really a good thing to keep hammering down that road just because you can't say no to some dusty old tome?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
LOL. Isn't the point to be good, or on the side of "right?" "Right or wrong" seems like the exact problem with religion. Islamic terrorists are going to blow you up, right or wrong, because of this kind of reasoning. Modern American Christians are going to stand on the street corner with hateful anti-gay signs, right or wrong, because they choose the Bible no matter what.

If you step back and see something you believe in is wrong, is it really a good thing to keep hammering down that road just because you can't say no to some dusty old tome?
I am walking in his shoes. You are preaching that post to the choir.

God! Does anybody pay attention?
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
I am walking in his shoes. You are preaching that post to the choir.

God! Does anybody pay attention?

Well, you question everything I post on here so I am having a very difficult time believing you are walking in my shoes. I doubt very seriously that you are.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think you're wrong. I said nothing of the kind. I merely have doubt. Stop following me around these boards and pestering me or I'll report you to the mods.
Please do! I am not "following you around". You are posting in the same threads that I am posting in. I will leave you alone. How about that?
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
No. A remnant is a part of something. I think it is usually considered a small part of something. I guess you do not sew.
The 144,000 are not all from the time of the end.
Then how does the dragon go to make war with them immediately after a failed attempt to harm the woman by a flood in the end times?

They are the remnant specifically of the woman who is given safety -in the wilderness -for 1,260 days -which is at the end -during the "great tribulation"
-coinciding with the reign of the beast, the prophesying of the two witnesses, etc..
They are the remnant of her seed..... so the woman and the remnant of her seed are those who are living at that time.

The woman is those who do the daily -preaching the true gospel of the kingdom -until it is taken away. When they cease to do the daily -they go to a place of safety.
The remnant of her seed do not go to that place of safety -but serve God IN and DURING the tribulation -which is how the dragon then goes to make war with them who keep the commandments and then have the testimony -and who are not in that place with her.


The woman -those who do the daily [the word sacrifice is not actually in the text -it is assumed] -are persecuted by many people who are influenced to do so by the beast [some of those who comprise (make/make up/band together/be) the image of the beast] -before they go to safety...
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
Dan 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.[1,260 days]
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High,

The 144,000 are all sealed at the time of the end.....

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
...............Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Related verses.....
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven,
and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; [3 1/2 years =1,260 days] and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore [1,260] days, clothed in sackcloth.

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
Dan 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Then how does the dragon go to make war with them immediately after a failed attempt to harm the woman by a flood in the end times?
What is happening to people? I can't be the only one who can see it. Statistically impossible I think.

I did not say there would be no remnant on the earth in the end times. I said that the 144,000 would not be on earth in the end times.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
What is happening to people? I can't be the only one who can see it. Statistically impossible I think.

I did not say there would be no remnant on the earth in the end times. I said that the 144,000 would not be on earth in the end times.

Why do you believe that? (few read every last post in a thread, so I am not responding to everything you have written)
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why do you believe that? (few read every last post in a thread, so I am not responding to everything you have written)
Thank you for making that fact clear. I appreciate it.

I might be wrong but I think they are called by a number because wherever they are they are together. I think of the math.
Unless someone is with the other 143,999 he can't rightly claim to be OF the number. Of course, it is very highly unlikely that it is a literal number.
So tell me. Why is it a number?

Also was it ever written anywhere that the number would be on the Earth? It is written that they are in Heaven.

What is the ONLY way to Heaven do you suppose? I think the only way is to die the physical death.

I can see the 144,000 but I won't be sharing and that is OK.

@Etritonakin I should add that I do not consider Heaven is an actual place.
 
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