Dying Prior To Jesus

[Etritonakin]

Thank you for making that fact clear. I appreciate it.

I might be wrong but I think they are called by a number because wherever they are they are together. I think of the math.
Unless someone is with the other 143,999 he can't rightly claim to be OF the number. Of course, it is very highly unlikely that it is a literal number.
So tell me. Why is it a number?

Also was it ever written anywhere that the number would be on the Earth? It is written that they are in Heaven.

What is the ONLY way to Heaven do you suppose? I think the only way is to die the physical death.

I can see the 144,000 but I won't be sharing and that is OK.

@Etritonakin I should add that I do not consider Heaven is an actual place.

So.... do you believe that each of the twelve thousand are together separately -in 12 different locations -or that all 144,000 are in the same location?

How can you be of a number if the number isn't a number? How can you be one and others 143,999 if 144,000 isn't an actual number?

Where does it say they ARE in heaven? Do you believe they have already died? How do they serve God? If you believe they are still alive -and will die -what will they do before they die?

 

[savagewind]

So.... do you believe that each of the twelve thousand are together separately -in 12 different locations -or that all 144,000 are in the same location?

It is not about space. It is about their agreement with God's will be done. Every part of the number is symbolic.

How can you be of a number if the number isn't a number? How can you be one and others 143,999 if 144,000 isn't an actual number?

It can't be a literal number because a literal number of things is exclusive. The love of God has nothing to do with exclusion. I think you did not answer the question. Why is whatever it is described as a number?

Where does it say they ARE in heaven?

Revelation 14:1

Do you believe they have already died?

I think most of them are dead. They can't all be dead because there exists a remnant of them.

How do they serve God?

They all serve God with a complete heart.

If you believe they are still alive

Some are -

and will die

like everyone dies

-what will they do before they die?

What will they do before they die? While alive none know they are of the 144,000 so I guess they all do human type things but they don't lie. They don't teach anything that might lead someone else to lie.

 

[Etritonakin]

Rev 14:1

Rev 14:1 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.

Mount Zion IS ON EARTH.

2Sa 5:6 And the king and his men went to Jerusalem unto the Jebusites, the inhabitants of the land: which spake unto David, saying, Except thou take away the blind and the lame, thou shalt not come in hither: thinking, David cannot come in hither.
2Sa 5:7 Nevertheless David took the strong hold of Zion: the same is the city of David.

2Ch 5:2 Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion.

Psa 69:35 For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah: that they may dwell there, and have it in possession.
Psa 69:36 The seed also of his servants shall inherit it: and they that love his name shall dwell therein.

Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
Zec 8:4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
Zec 8:5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

Zec 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

 

[savagewind]

Rev 14:1 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.

Mount Zion IS ON EARTH.

2Sa 5:6 And the king and his men went to Jerusalem unto the Jebusites, the inhabitants of the land: which spake unto David, saying, Except thou take away the blind and the lame, thou shalt not come in hither: thinking, David cannot come in hither.
2Sa 5:7 Nevertheless David took the strong hold of Zion: the same is the city of David.

2Ch 5:2 Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion.

Psa 69:35 For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah: that they may dwell there, and have it in possession.
Psa 69:36 The seed also of his servants shall inherit it: and they that love his name shall dwell therein.

Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
Zec 8:4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
Zec 8:5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

Zec 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Do you have a scriptural example of Mt. Zion after the lamb? Those are all before the lamb. Is the lamb, the one who we call Jesus? Is his condition as a lamb resulting from his execution?
When did Jesus become the lamb? By the way, when did Jesus receive his kingly power?

 

[savagewind]

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

.

God has NEVER been far off. Jesus is WITH his disciples. Where two or more are gathered in his name HE IS THERE.

It has always been about the spirit and I believe it always will be.

 

[savagewind]

@Etritonakin I think you work too hard.

 

[savagewind]

It is my opinion nobody can make himself or herself a part of the 144,000 like the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses do. Every one of the 144,000 God has known before any sin was ever committed. Ephesians 1:5 Ephesians 1:11 Luke 12:32 Romans 8:14 Romans 8:29-30

 

[Etritonakin]

Do you have a scriptural example of Mt. Zion after the lamb? Those are all before the lamb. Is the lamb, the one who we call Jesus? Is his condition as a lamb resulting from his execution?
When did Jesus become the lamb? By the way, when did Jesus receive his kingly power?

Good luck, dude!

 

[savagewind]

Good luck, dude!

Good luck getting a straight answer from anyone.

In what circumstances did the one called Jesus receive kingly power? People say it began at the time of the end when he rode before the three other horses.
Revelation 6:2
I say it began when he was raised to Heaven to sit at the right hand of God. That was soon after he died.

I know I shouldn't be proud that I am a dudette but that is what I am.

 

[viole]

St. Paul explains in his epistles that those before Christ lived according to faith, too. God counted Abraham's faith as righteousness and credited it to him as righteousness.

So people are saved by faith in Christ or faith in the coming Christ before Christ.

How can you have faith in Christ if you were born in Australia a thousands years B.C.?

Ciao

- viole

 

[savagewind]

Good luck, dude!

I think I understand what is confusing. I am sorry.
It is written that the Lamb is standing upon Mt. Zion and with it there are 144,000. Mount Zion is a place on Earth but I say they are in heaven.
Do you believe me that they are preordained to stand with The Lord? They lived their lives for The Lord and even died for him.

That it is said they came from Israel means that they were and are aware of the Law of Israel.

Please read Hebrews 10:1

Even though nobody is 144,000 on the Earth God always knew them as 144,000. So it is right to see them standing with the lamb on Mount Zion.

Zion pictures the rule by Christ. They were and are all ruled by Christ.

 

[savagewind]

The standard by which a person can rightly be judged was set by the 144,000.

 

[Neo Deist]

No scripture exists? Who mislead you and dragged you away from the truth that is Jesus Christ?

Historical fact.
Biblical errors.
Intelligence.
Questions.
The list continues...

But everything is not black & white like you want it to be.

 

[Etritonakin]

I think I understand what is confusing. I am sorry.
It is written that the Lamb is standing upon Mt. Zion and with it there are 144,000. Mount Zion is a place on Earth but I say they are in heaven.
Do you believe me that they are preordained to stand with The Lord? They lived their lives for The Lord and even died for him.

That it is said they came from Israel means that they were and are aware of the Law of Israel.

Please read Hebrews 10:1

Even though nobody is 144,000 on the Earth God always knew them as 144,000. So it is right to see them standing with the lamb on Mount Zion.

Zion pictures the rule by Christ. They were and are all ruled by Christ.

Anything can be anything if you just make stuff up. What is confusing is that you are not paying attention to the words.
I do not work too hard -and my time is not wasted. Even when I write to the disinterested or to one who believes differently, it is still good mental exercise.

 

[savagewind]

Anything can be anything if you just make stuff up. What is confusing is that you are not paying attention to the words.
I do not work too hard -and my time is not wasted. Even when I write to the disinterested or to one who believes differently, it is still good mental exercise.

Which words am I not paying attention to? I told you why they can be standing on a mountain. God knew them before they were 144,000 and chose them to be 144,000. Then the 144,000 began being gathered to Christ before Jesus Christ. Exodus 19:6

I am certain you are not paying attention to MY words. I do not know if you are right that I am not paying attention to the Bible words.

 

[allfoak]

My Eternal Soul :
Job ii. 9:
"And I am a wanderer, changing place after place and house after house."
Fragments of a Faith Forgotten: The Gnosis According to its Foes: The Docetæ


This is the theory of the Zohar, which says: "All souls are subject to transmigration; and men do not know the ways of the Holy One, blessed be He! They do not know that they are brought before the tribunal both before they enter into this world and after they leave it; they are ignorant of the many transmigrations and secret probations which they have to undergo, and of the number of souls and spirits which enter into this world and which do not return to the palace of the Heavenly King. Men do not know how the souls revolve like a stone which is thrown from a sling. But the time is at hand when these mysteries will be disclosed" (Zohar, ii. 99b).
TRANSMIGRATION OF SOULS - JewishEncyclopedia.com