Echo Chambers...

[Father]

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

With the age of Mass Communication. the sharing of Ideals within seconds. the access of Libraries of Knowledge of both Good and Evil (both subjective of course) you would assume only the Good ideas would rise to the top as they did during discourse during the scientific revolution. the multitude of ways to share one's ideas. forums, video, audio, and yet where do the most people seem to reside? a social site with only 40-120 characters of use per post give or take a few? even when they coagulate in that of video sharing like youtube. many are quick to build invisible walls around them and their opposition. seemingly rightfully so. one whose ideas cannot take the battle of discourse or debate is normally that of a weak ideal. one that is not worth holding.

Sunlight is seemingly the best disinfectant. in that it truly destroys and or pushes back corrupted idea's


these people on both sides mind you are quick to silence. quick to ignore or block. quick to surround themselves with those of the exact same mindset while they toss bricks with labels and slurs over the wall towards the enemy. never actually seeing them... confirmation bias...
many never leaving those walled off hollowed grounds of "safe spaces" to view their opposition. never taking the time to actually address the arguments given by both. quick to simply throw labels when labels don't accurately apply. many of you would point out how I am probably a hypocrite for the stating of that last one. however infusing one's debate with fire and lighting is far different than just slapping a label and dismission of the claim and blocking of the claimer. I am one who has both a 4chan account and a Tumblr. one who waltz's back and forth between each side dueling any I may come across. there are very few opinions or stances I hold that have not seen at least 50 to 60 full on flame wars. hints why I am here after all...

in the age of easy communication, there still exists invisible geographical barriers none wish to cross. whether it's the cesspools of Tumblr. to the Alpes of Reddit. the jungles of twitter or the grasslands of 4chan. entire different biomes have formed and many fully adapted to their specific region. afraid of difference. afraid of a change of scenery, to a digital Nomad. and really an actual Nomad who has barely stayed in one location for more than a year constantly crossing the country. crossing regions. such invisible geography that exists in immensity on the internet. a realm of instant communication and knowledge. whether it be false or true it is equally there in excess. and yet no one wishes to ever access it. they sit idly by reconfirming their own narratives through the wrong ways. ignoring, blocking, and silencing those that hold a difference of perspective. how can one truly appreciate the world if all they have seen is never ending lands of grass or thick forests or peaking mountain tops full of snow?

I think one of the ways to solve this Division or at least bring it to a climax, is by taking those different people's of their respective climates and forcing them to discuss. knocking down their walls removing the vast separation of these biomes and building better pathways between them. or fusing them all together. to make them see their enemy. because it's really easy to snipe something across miles and feel nothing... to learn nothing. but its quite difficult to stand toe to toe with them each with a sword in hand and truly fighting them. truly debating them. a debate is a battle. even if one has the correct opinion they may still lose. those that do know the high of a Philosopher'ss High and the pleasure of battle. then know that one argument is never merely enough. we are beings that seek out conflict going from one war to another. one topic or ideas to another. never-ending. never cease to be satisfied even after in their mind winning many conflicts in a row still with a desire a Lust for more. more more more. but even I find it apparent and need to remind myself just as the waring generals of ancient Rome who return of a victory whom would have a slave whisper in their ear "you are only mortal" it must be reminded to us that simply winning a discussion. if there even is such a thing is not a true victory. not true grandeur.

I am on occasion asked if I had a superpower what would it be? most would think of simple powers. flying. strength. invisibility. speed. I use to think on such and thanks to the opening and widening of thinking from media some would proclaim "childish" I have come up with an answer that reflects the deepest part of me. what I most truly desire.

Absolute persuasion. Persuasion, not Command. the disarmament of another's position and getting them to see everything from your own stance. to understand. understanding is very valuable. even when it is between two Adversary's it is a sweetness that none can resist. we naturally crave it. to be understood. and in turn to understand other's even if we shout against it and deny it. understanding is truly winning. unlike open conflict or violance.

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence, supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I thank you for reading and am curious about your ideas about Echo Chambers and the all-around chosen segregation of ourselves on this Aether we call the Internet. and ways of fixing this problem that plagues us.

 

[Father]

k does the first image work for anyone? I have literally been trying to change it 15 times with different images and it just gives me brackets img brackets

 

[Laika]

k does the first image work for anyone? I have literally been trying to change it 15 times with different images and it just gives me brackets img brackets

The first image I see is sunlight. I think there may even be a limit on the number of media you can include in a single post if I remember correctly.

I thank you for reading and am curious about your ideas about Echo Chambers and the all-around chosen segregation of ourselves on this Aether we call the Internet. and ways of fixing this problem that plagues us.

Joining RF worked for me I wanted to know what other people's belief systems were before I decided they should be "liquidated" under an Marxist-Atheist dictatorship in favour of the "one true faith". I'm not proud of it, but it was part of the motivation. It seemed a waste not trying to understand something before its "gone". It was a really good decision and got me out of the far-left echo chamber. I may have bad days on RF, but it has opened my eyes a great deal as to just how different peoples views can be. Overall, its been a very nice community too.

I am on occasion asked if I had a superpower what would it be? most would think of simple powers. flying. strength. invisibility. speed. I use to think on such and thanks to the opening and widening of thinking from media some would proclaim "childish" I have come up with an answer that reflects the deepest part of me. what I most truly desire.

Absolute persuasion. Persuasion, not Command. the disarmament of another's position and getting them to see everything from your own stance. to understand. understanding is very valuable. even when it is between to Adversary's it is a sweetness that none can resist. we naturally crave it. to be understood. and in turn to understand other's even if we shout against it and deny it. understanding is truly winning. unlike open conflict or violance.

Dam, I know this feeling so well.

 

[Stevicus]

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

With the age of Mass Communication. the sharing of Ideals within seconds. the access of Libraries of Knowledge of both Good and Evil (both subjective of course) you would assume only the Good ideas would rise to the top as they did during discourse during the scientific revolution. the multitude of ways to share one's ideas. forums, video, audio, and yet where do the most people seem to reside? a social site with only 40-120 characters of use per post give or take a few? even when they coagulate in that of video sharing like youtube. many are quick to build invisible walls around them and their opposition. seemingly rightfully so. one whose ideas cannot take the battle of discourse or debate is normally that of a weak ideal. one that is not worth holding.

Sunlight is seemingly the best disinfectant. in that it truly destroys and or pushes back corrupted idea's


these people on both sides mind you are quick to silence. quick to ignore or block. quick to surround themselves with those of the exact same mindset while they toss bricks with labels and slurs over the wall towards the enemy. never actually seeing them... confirmation bias...
many never leaving those walled off hollowed grounds of "safe spaces" to view their opposition. never taking the time to actually address the arguments given by both. quick to simply throw labels when labels don't accurately apply. many of you would point out how I am probably a hypocrite for the stating of that last one. however infusing one's debate with fire and lighting is far different than just slapping a label and dismission of the claim and blocking of the claimer. I am one who has both a 4chan account and a Tumblr. one who waltz's back and forth between each side dueling any I may come across. there are very few opinions or stances I hold that have not seen at least 50 to 60 full on flame wars. hints why I am here after all...

in the age of easy communication, there still exists invisible geographical barriers none wish to cross. whether it's the cesspools of Tumblr. to the Alpes of Reddit. the jungles of twitter or the grasslands of 4chan. entire different biomes have formed and many fully adapted to their specific region. afraid of difference. afraid of a change of scenery, to a digital Nomad. and really an actual Nomad who has barely stayed in one location for more than a year constantly crossing the country. crossing regions. such invisible geography that exists in immensity on the internet. a realm of instant communication and knowledge. whether it be false or true it is equally there in excess. and yet no one wishes to ever access it. they sit idly by reconfirming their own narratives through the wrong ways. ignoring, blocking, and silencing those that hold a difference of perspective. how can one truly appreciate the world if all they have seen is never ending lands of grass or thick forests or peaking mountain tops full of snow?

I think one of the ways to solve this Division or at least bring it to a climax, is by taking those different people's of their respective climates and forcing them to discuss. knocking down their walls removing the vast separation of these biomes and building better pathways between them. or fusing them all together. to make them see their enemy. because it's really easy to snipe something across miles and feel nothing... to learn nothing. but its quite difficult to stand toe to toe with them each with a sword in hand and truly fighting them. truly debating them. a debate is a battle. even if one has the correct opinion they may still lose. those that do know the high of a Philosopher'ss High and the pleasure of battle. then know that one argument is never merely enough. we are beings that seek out conflict going from one war to another. one topic or ideas to another. never-ending. never cease to be satisfied even after in their mind winning many conflicts in a row still with a desire a Lust for more. more more more. but even I find it apparent and need to remind myself just as the waring generals of ancient Rome who return of a victory whom would have a slave whisper in their ear "you are only mortal" it must be reminded to us that simply winning a discussion. if there even is such a thing is not a true victory. not true grandeur.

I am on occasion asked if I had a superpower what would it be? most would think of simple powers. flying. strength. invisibility. speed. I use to think on such and thanks to the opening and widening of thinking from media some would proclaim "childish" I have come up with an answer that reflects the deepest part of me. what I most truly desire.

Absolute persuasion. Persuasion, not Command. the disarmament of another's position and getting them to see everything from your own stance. to understand. understanding is very valuable. even when it is between to Adversary's it is a sweetness that none can resist. we naturally crave it. to be understood. and in turn to understand other's even if we shout against it and deny it. understanding is truly winning. unlike open conflict or violance.

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence, supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I thank you for reading and am curious about your ideas about Echo Chambers and the all-around chosen segregation of ourselves on this Aether we call the Internet. and ways of fixing this problem that plagues us.

I'm not sure that forcing people to discuss things would be the answer. If people want to live in an echo chamber and constantly be surrounded by those who agree with them, then there's little that anyone can do.

Even discussion would be problematic, especially if you're dealing with two or more rigidly stubborn ideologues who will never be swayed or persuaded by the other side.

A debate is not exactly a "battle" either, since there's no reliable way of telling who is the winner and who is the loser. The only real "scoreboard" one can use would be to gauge public reaction by looking at election results. Opinion polls are less reliable, but they might also give some indication as to which side was more persuasive.

As a last resort, there's the quote from Clausewitz: "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Politics involves debate and persuasion, but it is also the art of compromise. If compromise is not possible, then war is inevitable. But in order to prepare for war, a different form of politics is necessary - as one has to persuade people to support a war. That's where the "echo chambers" come from, since, for some people, they might think "the debate is over." Now, it's simply a matter of riling up the masses, gaining supporters (if they can), and taking the view that "those who are not with us are against us."

Of course, gaining supporters can be problematic, since there's literally thousands (or more) competing "echo chambers" out there, many of which might even overlap and agree with each other. I explored this somewhat while spending a bit of time on Reddit and becoming more familiar with the phenomenon known as the "manosphere." As a man, I was somewhat interested and intrigued, but I was flabbergasted by how many different sites there were which essentially said the same thing - yet had their own different cliques which seemed to hate other cliques which agreed on most of the same things. Each individual "echo chamber" is set up by some self-important, narcissistic twit who runs it like some kind of dictator where all must fall in line or be kicked out. "Those who are not with us are against us."

The internet is jam-packed with so many different sites hawking their own individual agenda. So many different echo chambers. If you want to put them all together and force them to discuss things, it would be a mess. Thousands of separate voices yelling at the top of their lungs, getting belligerent, fights breaking out - a cacophonous bedlam where no one would be heard.

That was one thing that was mentioned regarding the Occupy Wall Street, as there were various people there, not really unified for a single cause, but each with their own specific pet cause which was important to them, but not everyone. A lot of people tend to be single-minded and compartmentalize all their causes, rather than looking from a larger, big-picture frame of reference.

 

[Father]

I'm not sure that forcing people to discuss things would be the answer. If people want to live in an echo chamber and constantly be surrounded by those who agree with them, then there's little that anyone can do.

Even discussion would be problematic, especially if you're dealing with two or more rigidly stubborn ideologues who will never be swayed or persuaded by the other side.

A debate is not exactly a "battle" either, since there's no reliable way of telling who is the winner and who is the loser. The only real "scoreboard" one can use would be to gauge public reaction by looking at election results. Opinion polls are less reliable, but they might also give some indication as to which side was more persuasive.

what makes it a battle is specifically that fact. there is an easy way to tell if one wins or not. the audience. if the majority of the audience says one wins or another that's how it is.
as you can have evidence as sound as gravity and still lose to someone with falsehood. it's about getting the viewer to change their idea's or mind not your opponent

 

[Father]

The internet is jam-packed with so many different sites hawking their own individual agenda. So many different echo chambers. If you want to put them all together and force them to discuss things, it would be a mess. Thousands of separate voices yelling at the top of their lungs, getting belligerent, fights breaking out - a cacophonous bedlam where no one would be heard.

.

the goal is not removing all of them. just removing the prominent ones. making mass sites 100% open and silencing none (except spammers and adverts etc) but removing them on the large sites will force interaction as most would rather stay on said large sites than find a new one with no people. if not online than in real life like universities