Egoistic beliefs?

[Fool]

The belief that a supreme being loves you.

The belief that you have an immortal soul.

The belief you can know truth through religious/spiritual faith.

Are these egoistic beliefs?


**Feel free to reasonably define things in your context and add other beliefs you feel may be egoistic.

energy cannot be created, or destroyed, it simply changes form.

the next question is whether energy has consciousness, or if information is random, or essential.

how can western science study something that has random information? do they not look for patterns, reproducible and repeatable?


No-Hiding Theorem of Quantum Mechanics

 

[Guy Threepwood]

The belief that a supreme being loves you.

The belief that you have an immortal soul.

The belief you can know truth through religious/spiritual faith.

Are these egoistic beliefs?


**Feel free to reasonably define things in your context and add other beliefs you feel may be egoistic.

Than man is the highest power

That we inherit our bodies and the world by luck, not a gift that needs our gratitude

That we have enough comprehension of nature to refute God's creation of it, or even critique his work

That humans have enough influence on nature to change the entire climate

 

[Quintessence]

At age 10 yes I would agree but, as far as I am concerned, adults 25 and over have a fully developed brain and now have a responsibility to question what they learned as a child.

Why? Who are they responsible to?

To be honest, I find the idea of an immortal soul to be the most egoistical belief of them all. Everything passes and we are not outside this truth.

Would you say you find it egotistical because of your belief that everything passes? Or is there something else to it? I guess I find it strange, because if I had to name a "most egotistical belief" this would definitely not be it. It would probably be a set of things that could actually classify someone under the narcissistic personality disorder spectrum.

 

[rusra02]

The belief that a supreme being loves you.

The belief that you have an immortal soul.

The belief you can know truth through religious/spiritual faith.

Are these egoistic beliefs?


**Feel free to reasonably define things in your context and add other beliefs you feel may be egoistic.

I do not believe the soul is immortal, but rather refers to the person (or animal) as a living creature. (Genesis 2:7) I do not believe that belief in a true God or his promise of everlasting life makes one an egoist; nor does belief that one can come to know the truth. If there is a true God, as I believe there is, the truth comes from him. (John 17:17)

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Why? Who are they responsible to?



Would you say you find it egotistical because of your belief that everything passes? Or is there something else to it? I guess I find it strange, because if I had to name a "most egotistical belief" this would definitely not be it. It would probably be a set of things that could actually classify someone under the narcissistic personality disorder spectrum.

"Why? Who are they responsible to? "

A responsibility to intellectual integrity. Stupidity is the world's premier problem and if you are not willing to question your own beliefs, (especially ones from your childhood) then it is likely you are part of the problem. We are adults and our duty is to our community, and that means constantly working to better ourselves.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

After looking up the definition of egotistic, this is why I think they are not. Ego is about the self.

Most religions believe all of us are loved by the supreme being
Most religions believe we all have an immortal soul even non-believers
Most religions believe anybody can know the truth.

Being that everyone is involved I do not see how it is ego.

edit: added missing not

But, it ends up being the "self" that does, or does not make the decision to become part of said belief set. So, if the idea of "being loved by the supreme being" appeals to your "self", then this is what might influence your decision to join up and "believe".

Another way to look at it is this: you may believe we have an immortal soul, but I do not. Now... how much of your belief in an immortal soul is you hoping that this is the case, or you convincing yourself this is the case in order to satisfy the desires of your "self" to exist forever? Can you even know? That you believe/hope that EVERYONE also has this "eternal soul" is nearly irrelevant. You also desire it for yourself - you can't deny it - and that is bound to introduce bias toward the belief.

 

[bobhikes]

But, it ends up being the "self" that does, or does not make the decision to become part of said belief set. So, if the idea of "being loved by the supreme being" appeals to your "self", then this is what might influence your decision to join up and "believe".

Another way to look at it is this: you may believe we have an immortal soul, but I do not. Now... how much of your belief in an immortal soul is you hoping that this is the case, or you convincing yourself this is the case in order to satisfy the desires of your "self" to exist forever? Can you even know? That you believe/hope that EVERYONE also has this "eternal soul" is nearly irrelevant. You also desire it for yourself - you can't deny it - and that is bound to introduce bias toward the belief.

But most also want the same things for their loved ones and even friends. They don't wish to have eternal life alone but wish to have it with company.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

But most also want the same things for their loved ones and even friends. They don't wish to have eternal life alone but wish to have it with company.

All the more bias being introduced... and I'm not saying it isn't for good reasons.

 

[Quintessence]

A responsibility to intellectual integrity.

So you believe Intellectual Integrity is a being/force that humans are held responsible to? A sort of god, as it were, that then enforces human responsibility to it?

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but if that isn't what you meant I don't understand how one can be responsible to "intellectual integrity" if it is understood as a non-person or non-deity. It sounds to me like you are talking about chosen virtues or values, in which case one is responsible not to the chosen virtue, but to oneself or one's society. When it comes to virtues and values, there's an expectation that a person of good character lives in accord with the virtues they select. Otherwise, they bring dishonor and shame to themselves and perhaps their kinfolk by failing to adhere to their own standards. Aside form that sort of thing, I'm not seeing what sort of "responsibility" you are talking about.

At any rate, I'd find it important to keep in mind that one person's virtues and values are not necessarily shared by others. I find it interesting you feel stupidity is the world's biggest problem - that speaks to your values.

 

[bobhikes]

All the more bias being introduced... and I'm not saying it isn't for good reasons.

Its not ego though. Many religious people promote their beliefs to others for conversion. This is not ego. In my opinion religion is a statement against ego. We can't handle everything ourselves and we use the social groups of religion to help us.

We all have an imortal soul so should work together

We all have a supreme being that loves us so we should love each other.

We all can know the one truth so should get along.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

So you believe Intellectual Integrity is a being/force that humans are held responsible to? A sort of god, as it were, that then enforces human responsibility to it?

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but if that isn't what you meant I don't understand how one can be responsible to "intellectual integrity" if it is understood as a non-person or non-deity. It sounds to me like you are talking about chosen virtues or values, in which case one is responsible not to the chosen virtue, but to oneself or one's society. When it comes to virtues and values, there's an expectation that a person of good character lives in accord with the virtues they select. Otherwise, they bring dishonor and shame to themselves and perhaps their kinfolk by failing to adhere to their own standards. Aside form that sort of thing, I'm not seeing what sort of "responsibility" you are talking about.

At any rate, I'd find it important to keep in mind that one person's virtues and values are not necessarily shared by others. I find it interesting you feel stupidity is the world's biggest problem - that speaks to your values.

I am sorry but I don't buy into the whole subjective morality gambit. What we do or don't do has real life consequences; consequences that can't be simply whisked away by rhetoric. A morally responsible person will weight their actions based on that truth. That is the problem with debates like these, too many people pull it too far inward and they fail to connect it to the real world.

But I want you to stop and consider the fact you are arguing against a grown person having enough personal integrity to question their own views. It is very egoistical to walk around never questioning your own beliefs; assuming you can't be wrong. It is an absurd argument you are making. Anyone who can't entertain the possibility they might be wrong is an egomaniac.

 

[Quintessence]

I am sorry but I don't buy into the whole subjective morality gambit.

I'm not talking about subjective morality, I'm talking about virtue ethics... which is what I thought you were getting at. Since this assumption was apparently wrong, what are you getting at? I'm not interested in "arguing" against you - I'm trying to understand what your perspective is and what you mean when you say we are somehow "held responsible" to this entity called "intellectual integrity." How is this responsibility held? Who enforces it?