Egypt, Morsi, The military...

[lunakilo]

I know there are a few Egyptians on this forum, and I was just wondering how Egyptians in general feel about what is going on in Egypt right now.
I assume most people don't exactly feel good about it, but what are your thoughts.

I know I am just a stupid dane and have no real understanding of the situation, so please excuse me if I say stupid things.

Mohamed Morsi may not be a nice person and probably a big bully, but he did win the election, so do you feel it is ok to make him resign?

If the winner of a democratic election is not the "right leader" for the country, then who is?
If another election Is there any reason to expect it to turn out any better than the first one?

Will this turn out all right or not?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I think they thought they were electing a democratic leader, not a sectarian autocrat.

The method you choose to select a leader, by diktat or democratic election, can result in the same bad choice. The math of the situation ensured Morsi would be it.

In the west we have sorted the problem by tying up our leaders in a complex of laws, to such a degree that almost anything they choose to do can be countered.

Morsi on the other hand immediately gave himself unlimited power to do what he liked.

what he forgot was that his power was derived primarily from the military, and that they had an equal power to remove him. However they did nothing.... until he went so far, that the populace clamoured for him to go. The army duly obliged.

 

[Sahar]

What is going in Egypt is the following:
1. The Islamists repeatedly won in the elections and referendums held after the ousting of Mubarak:
- They got the majority of seats in the parliament (which then was dissolved by the supreme constitutional court whose members are loyal to Mubarak regime).
- They won the presidential election.
- They advocated they newly formed constitution and the majority of people voted for it.

2. The secularists consistently lost the majority of voices in the ballot box, and they opposed the new constitution and a minority of people voted against its pass.

3. There are anti-revolutionary forces that indeed have some public ground; many people in Egypt were against the 25th Jan protests and against the ousting of Mubarak.
Some of them coped with the new change, without real faith in the slogans of the revolution.
The main anti-revolutionary forces include:
- The police/interior ministry
- Military leaders who receive annual aid from USA: 1.3 billion$
- The judiciary institution (with few exceptions inside it)
- Businessmen who benefited from the special treatment they got under the corrupt Mubarak regime and who also own the private media satellite channels and newspapers which propagandize against Morsi, MB, the Islamists in general, and against the 25th Jan "revolution".
-------

The secularists and their supporters hate the MB for ideological reasons, in addition they are much closer to USA, the West and Israel. They couldn't stand the fact that Islamists always won the elections so they turned against democracy and its processes. In a consistent manner, they belittled people's choices, they demanded military intervention, they advocated forming unelected constitutional committee to form a constitution that serve them. In short, they want an oligarchic authoritarian rule or even a military rule that oppresses the Islamists and undermine the public will.

Definitely the arrival of Morsi to the presidency did harm the corrupt institutions of the country, so all worked against him.

Secularists united with Mubarak regime (with the help of monarchs like KSA, UAE), plotted the military coup, after which the military started severe oppressive measures e.g closing 7 TV channels, arresting journalists and head figures in MB, massacring pro-Morsi protesters...etc.
-------

After the coup, Islamists and their supporters marched in the streets, organized daily protests against the coup. But day after day, other factions, who are against Morsi and his group, started to join them, especially after the national guard massacre in which the military killed more than 80 pro-Morsi protesters and injured over 1000 of them. They sensed the dangers of the coup. They felt that we returned to the old regime. Now, people are in the streets; demanding Morsi's return and speaking against the coup and the military rule.

 

[Sahar]

So the people are divided between opponents and supporters of the Military coup. But it seems who managed so far to carry out huge rallies day after another are pro-Morsi/anti-coup forces.
Anti-Morsi forces indeed managed to organize huge protests on 30th of June but they failed to organize similar ones afterwards.

 

[Sahar]

An example of a secularist (supposed to be liberal!!!) working against the democratic path:

Mohamed ElBaradei, the Nobel Prize-winning diplomat and Egypt’s most prominent liberal, said Thursday that he had worked hard to convince Western powers of what he called the necessity of forcibly ousting President Mohamed Morsi, contending that Mr. Morsi had bungled the country’s transition to an inclusive democracy.

In an interview, Mr. ElBaradei also defended the widening arrests of Mr. Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood allies and the shutdown of Islamist television networks that followed the removal of Mr. Morsi on Wednesday by Egypt’s generals.

“The security people obviously are worried — there was an earthquake and we have to make sure that the tremors are predicted and controlled,” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/w...uster-of-egypts-president.html?ref=world&_r=1

 

[Sahar]

I know there are a few Egyptians on this forum, and I was just wondering how Egyptians in general feel about what is going on in Egypt right now.
I assume most people don't exactly feel good about it, but what are your thoughts.

I know I am just a stupid dane and have no real understanding of the situation, so please excuse me if I say stupid things.

Mohamed Morsi may not be a nice person and probably a big bully, but he did win the election, so do you feel it is ok to make him resign?

If the winner of a democratic election is not the "right leader" for the country, then who is?
If another election Is there any reason to expect it to turn out any better than the first one?

There won't be nearby elections under the military rule except in two cases:
- Censoring the Islamic political parties and banning their participation.
- Fraud measures are arranged.

 

[Sahar]

An interesting article on the issue:
The day the revolution died
The day the revolution died | Patrick Galey

 

[Sahar]

I think it summarizes the entire story well:

 

[Bismillah]

I'm not Egyptian, but someone asked for my opinion and this is what I thought. I think what Egypt is going through now is somewhat similar to what Pakistan underwent during its early years post independence, however I don't really claim to be an authority on the subject this is just my own opinion.

Egypt's first democratically elected President overthrown in a military coupe (what a precedent Egypt has set for itself)
News stations and media outlets, that the interim military regime sees as opponents, are shut down and censored (as Mubarak did himself)
More than fifty protestors are killed by the military when they shoot into a pro-Morsi sit in
Meanwhile prominent leaders of the elected party, the MB, are served arrest warrants as the organization is neutered in the early phase of the coupe
But what is important is that Al Jazeera favors the Muslim Brotherhood.
This is also a very one sided article, I saw from the beginning Al Jazeera reporting of severe unrest and opposition against Morsi. They covered, in depth, his move to place himself above judicial review and there were multiple opinion pieces that wrote scathingly of this move. Al Jazeera may have a MB bias, but they have never shied from reporting on the MB's critics from day one. What is inexcusable however is a violation of the freedom of press. I don't know how stupid of a ****** you would have to be to support a military that obviously is concerned in its own self-intersts (such as their major influence in the Egyptian economy) who have shown themselves willing throughout Egyptian history to force themselves into the political scene.
I welcome Egypt to the joys of a thinly veiled military controlled country as only a Pakistani could.

 

[Pink Top Hat]

Morsi support is very small indeed.
When running he had about 24%
When up against Shafik Mubaraks man he got 51%

Right now Ikhwan have about 2% support and that is dropping daily.

They pay illiterate peasants and bus them to vote in polls giving them a bag of rice or sugar.

If there was an election today you would probably see Hamdeen Sabahi win it.

Why

Because Egyptians love their army. Only the crazy ikhwan dont because they are not nationalists but Islamists who want a caliphate not a country.

Sabahi is what Egyptian right now are looking for because General Al Sisi has managed to save Egypt from marauding savages called Muslim brotherhood who are out slaughtering like Genghis Khan and the mongols right now.

They see in him Nasser. Sabahi is a Nasserist and the people will I predict vote Sabahi in in an election. Tamarod who got 23 million petition was the brainchild of Sabahi who ousted Morsi on 30th June.

 

[alacks hovel]

Sahar, that article is super benign and apologetic, almost humorously so. Does it not strike you as merely a mouth-piece and not exactly a 'report'? It feels like a "just-in-case-you-were-thinking-this-you-might-be-wrong article. What do you think can be said about it's credence/relevance?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/w...uster-of-egypts-president.html?ref=world&_r=1

Favorite quote:

The Mubarak appointee, Abdel Meguid Mahmoud, spent years in office prosecuting Islamists. But Mr. ElBaradei said the generals had assured him that this time would be different because they intended to operate as an institution in a civilian democracy, with respect for due process and the rule of law.

Just love that the Generals are assuring him this time would be different; no claims as to why, they're just gonna make sure they pay respect for due process and rule of law this time... Tell that to Morsi.

 

[Falvlun]

It sounds like Egypt just hasn't got the hang of democracy yet: They ousted a dictator (Mubarak), then elected a wanna-be dictator (Morsi), which spurred the military to take over and set themselves up as dictator. Nobody seems to be the "good" guys-- the ones that actually want to bring a representative government to Egypt.