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Empirical Evidence for God

Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Truthseeker9 said:
There is empirical evidence in that the universe exists, and it is suitable for life. The chances of all the constants being just right is very small. Atheists get around that by saying there are probably many universes, but I see many universes as an evidence for God.
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Atheists don't have to 'get around' the fact that the chances of the universe turning out the way it has is very small. The chances that any one individual will win the lottery is very small, yet it happens all of the time. It certainly isn't 'evidence for God'. And the fact that it may be statistically improbable that the universe would exists as it does is not evidence for God. It's simply evidence that something statistically improbable occurred.
 
Ostronomos

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
QuestioningMind said:
Atheists don't have to 'get around' the fact that the chances of the universe turning out the way it has is very small. The chances that any one individual will win the lottery is very small, yet it happens all of the time. It certainly isn't 'evidence for God'. And the fact that it may be statistically improbable that the universe would exists as it does is not evidence for God. It's simply evidence that something statistically improbable occurred.
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But probability is the very bane of your argument as the very chance or probability that God exists is minute, and that is enough to guarantee His existence.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Ostronomos said:
When God appears, It is because He is specifically addressing a single observer. Any attempt to unveil His existence to another would cause Him to vanish without a trace. Because God is intelligent beyond question. Hence He cannot be proven by consensus. However, I have proven His existence on this forum. Even introducing what I call the God equation.
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That doesnt tell me about his existence and nature of it. It only means you experienced X and I have no point of reference to judge the validity of your experiences and origin of them.

What is a god?
 
Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Ostronomos said:
But probability is the very bane of your argument as the very chance or probability that God exists is minute, and that is enough to guarantee His existence.
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LOL RIGHT! Because the chances that I'll win the lottery is minute, THAT means it's enough to GUARANTEE that I'll be the one who wins it!

Gotta LOVE your pretend logic. Though it does fit perfectly with the logic of your OP. My brain imagined something while I was in a state of altered consciousness, therefor it MUST be real!
 
Ostronomos

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist said:
That doesnt tell me about his existence and nature of it. It only means you experienced X and I have no point of reference to judge the validity of your experiences and origin of them.

What is a god?
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A God is a One. A supreme reality or non-separation or unity by spirit.
 
Ostronomos

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
QuestioningMind said:
LOL RIGHT! Because the chances that I'll win the lottery is minute, THAT means it's enough to GUARANTEE that I'll be the one who wins it!

Gotta LOVE your pretend logic. Though it does fit perfectly with the logic of your OP. My brain imagined something while I was in a state of altered consciousness, therefor it MUST be real!
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But you cannot equate winning the lottery to a self-creative God. If the most minute chance that a God can exist is even minutely possible, then this guarantees the inevitability of His existence due to self-creative capacity. The omnipotence allows Him to pop into existence when the mere need arises.
 
Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Ostronomos said:
But you cannot equate winning the lottery to a self-creative God. the mosIft minute chance that a God can exist is even minutely possible, then this guarantees the inevitability of His existence due to self-creative capacity. The omnipotence allows Him to pop into existence when the mere need arises.
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Okay, based on what you just wrote, tell me if what I'm about to write is just as valid.

If the most minute chance that magical unicorns can exist is even minutely possible, then this guarantees the inevitability of magical unicorns existence due to self-creative capacity.
 
Ostronomos

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
QuestioningMind said:
Okay, based on what you just wrote, tell me if what I'm about to write is just as valid.

If the most minute chance that magical unicorns can exist is even minutely possible, then this guarantees the inevitability of magical unicorns existence due to self-creative capacity.
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Are unicorns self-creative? Can they generate their own existence from nothing the way God and virtual particles are able to?
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Ostronomos said:
A God is a One. A supreme reality or non-separation or unity by spirit.
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That doesnt make sense. Reality isnt supreme. If it were, it wouldnt be a reality. Sounds more like science fiction. Realms. Ultimate.

Try not to make it complicated. Take the universe, as already mentioned.

What exactly did you find to match the universe with god?

If reality, it cannot:

1. Be subjective. Believers cannot just say "well, atheist believe in false doctine etc or cohabit with peers that everyone else is blind". Confirmation bias is not evidence

2. Be an essences, supreme,spirit,force,etc

These are abstract words. They are experienced and cannot be explained by fancy sci-fi terms. It does not need to be objective to exist.

However, when you try to that leaves you with the role of supporting your statement with something concrete not just agreed upon you and your peers.

3. It cannot rely on sycronized and pattern evidence. Most of us experienced both of these. A lot of us dont attribute it to god.

Explain how these experiences are from god that are alien (but not sci-fi) to those who dont believe in god.
 
Ostronomos

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
Unveiled Artist said:
That doesnt make sense. Reality isnt supreme. If it were, it wouldnt be a reality. Sounds more like science fiction. Realms. Ultimate.

Try not to make it complicated. Take the universe, as already mentioned.

What exactly did you find to match the universe with god?
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I have found on many an occasion that the universe can double as a mind, thus possessing its own consciousness.

If reality, it cannot:

1. Be subjective. Believers cannot just say "well, atheist believe in false doctine etc or cohabit with peers that everyone else is blind". Confirmation bias is not evidence

2. Be an essences, supreme,spirit,force,etc

These are abstract words. They are experienced and cannot be explained by fancy sci-fi terms. It does not need to be objective to exist.
Click to expand...

Exactly, it does not need to be objective to exist. One cannot describe God without reference to words like "One", "Supreme", "Spirit" etc...

However, when you try to that leaves you with the role of supporting your statement with something concrete not just agreed upon you and your peers.
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Would the observation of intelligent behaving reality and omens such as intelligent self-aware light count? I bet it would.

3. It cannot rely on sycronized and pattern evidence. Most of us experienced both of these. A lot of us dont attribute it to god.
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Neither do I.

Explain how these experiences are from god that are alien (but not sci-fi) from those who dont believe in god.
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There was an appearance of intelligent behaving or self-aware light a number of times. This light "knew" what I was doing and thinking. Also, what I observed was absolute evil and its urge for me to die when my injury was critical. There was something distinct in the atmosphere and my experience. It was all during an altered state of consciousness in which universal oneness and my apprehension of it was attained.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ostronomos said:
But probability is the very bane of your argument as the very chance or probability that God exists is minute, and that is enough to guarantee His existence.
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Nope, you misunderstood the argument. By "odds" there are countless possibilities. It could be your God, equally so it could have been Universe Farting Pixies that began our universe. Or most likely in my book natural causes that are not fully understood right now.
 
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