Empirical Evidence for God

[Ostronomos]

I think that's a very silly question to ask. By "meta-reality" I mean to describe the design underlying the content of reality, akin to describing the physics by which a ball exists and interacts in its environment, as opposed to describing a ball and what you think the ball is doing. That seems like a far more useful and pragmatic view than chocking up one's experience to say a visitation by Christ or Mohomed, for instance. In any case, one must formulate the experience into something conceptual if we are to package it up for communication to others. What's the alternative? Just shutting up about it and forgetting it ever happened?

The way I envision "meta-reality", a subject which I discussed on another forum, is exactly the same as reality except on a higher plane. It links mind and reality together under one construct.

 

[Ostronomos]

Well you have to first accept the idea that on the whole any knowledge a human being has doesn't pop magically into consciousness but is a result of brain activity. That brain activity re-presents the world to the knower in the form of neural activity. That representation is, at best, a model or analogy to reality and not, strictly speaking, reality itself. From this I make the assumption that anything the human brain knows is as much a product of the brain itself as it is the reality that that brain is knowing.

If so, then what part is the brain inventing and what part is the real reality? I don't think we can know the universe accept with our "brain-colored glasses". For an example, when one gets inspired by the notion of the Tao one realizes how much balance and opposites interact and switch their places. But if you study how the brain works you also see this. So our minds are very Tao-y and everything is Tao-unified because of that.

So if we have a conscious experience of an ultimate nature we can never be sure to what extent our own minds are shaping that experience and to what extent that reality reflects a truth external to our mind.

I disagree with your premise that the universe cannot be known except through the brain. Although I do recall studies in consciousness that the reality we know is but a controlled hallucination. The brain may hallucinate and project false images but that's about it really. Other than that our picture of reality is a clear and understandable one.

At best we might say that a certain type of experience which people claim to have may share certain qualities such that we can recognize that type of experience. These experiences sincerely reported represent an objective reality about what the mind can experience. These experiences happen to people without their being subject to the control of that person although a person can foster that experience perhaps by certain preparatory actions.

I have spent many years studying dreams and the power of their reality and meaning. I take such things seriously and to the extent that they provide meaning to the individual they should be valued and cherished. They need not have any demonstrable reality in their specific form to fulfill this meaning, but to the extent that they fall into a class of experiences that are similar to the experiences of others, that experience is both made valuable by the objectivity implied by its commonality (even if rare) but it is also diminished in personal meaning because by that very same fact it becomes something that might happen to anyone given the right peculiar conditions.

In all of this there no implied need to posit another reality outside that which is created by any fiction. Any dream might be understood as merely the outcome of universal brain processes but the particular content is always unique due to the unique experience of the dreamer. Admitting to the subjectivity of the experience should not be seen as making that truth any less important. A personal experience with deep impact is worth more than any merely taught truth which is supposedly true for anyone simply because of the fact that that which makes us common typically doesn't speak to us of our personal value. For that we require uniqueness for uniqueness signals our special value and the implied need for our presence in the world.

I agree 100% with the last part. The rest I can't confirm anything about.

 

[sealchan]

I disagree with your premise that the universe cannot be known except through the brain. Although I do recall studies in consciousness that the reality we know is but a controlled hallucination. The brain may hallucinate and project false images but that's about it really. Other than that our picture of reality is a clear and understandable one.



I agree 100% with the last part. The rest I can't confirm anything about.

We could discuss the reality of the conscious experience of the color red or how we know that anyone else is conscious as we know ourselves to be...

There are deep mysteries which cannot be trapped in a scientist's lab.

 

[Truthseeker]

https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.08448

2014 - https://www.nasa.gov/ames/kepler/na...-planet-in-the-habitable-zone-of-another-star

2017 - https://edition-m.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/exoplanets-nasa-kepler-announcement/index.html

https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.06714

https://arxiv.org/abs/1705.06288


https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0205014


Now can you show me a scientific study that says god did it

What I'm talking about is the constants in the universe that came into being at the beginning of the Cosmos. It is very unlikely that this Universe would have life. You are talking about something else.

 

[ChristineM]

What I'm talking about is the constants in the universe that came into being at the beginning of the Cosmos. It is very unlikely that this Universe would have life. You are talking about something else.

That is not what you asked for, i provided to your request now you move the goalposts.

And still no evidence of god magic

And your evidence for your claim "It is very unlikely that this Universe would have life" .because i have provided several scientific papers that contradict that claim

Btw, thermodynamics predicts life and those laws have been valid since the beginning of this universe