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Empowerment by the Holy Spirit

Muffled

Jesus in me
When a person receives Jesus as Lord and Savior, he is promised the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. I believe these are some of the ways that happens. I f you know of more please feel free to add them.

1. The fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace etc are present because The HS is present.

2. The gifts of the spirit: healing, tongues, discernment of spirits etc become available as God sees your need for them.

3. Guidance: He will bring in remembance and tell about things in the future.

4. Salvation: He can keep us from committing sin.

I am sure there are many ways some of these things work out in practice but this generally covers the subject I hope.
 

augusta

Member
What happens to an individual who comes forward to denounce this character Jesus, as an actor and a fraud? Does that free the genuine intellect of that individual from being psychologically possesed by this counterfeit holy spirit, which is a spirit full of holes(lies)?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Form aside, that is a fair question. How is one supposed to know whether the Holy Spirit is indeed acting, or if one is simply deluded or self-deluded?
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
When a person receives Jesus as Lord and Savior, he is promised the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. I believe these are some of the ways that happens. I f you know of more please feel free to add them.

Scripture connects the imparting of the Holy Spirit with baptism and the laying on of hands (which has become Confirmation in liturgical settings). That's not to say that the Spirit is not imparted in any way at all at conversion (however that's understood, although "receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior" in the modern evangelical sense -- not sure if that's the way you're using the phrase -- is not a scriptural or traditional way of understanding it). But there's an intimate role played by such Christian ceremonies as baptism, confirmation, and Eucharist in the imparting of the Holy Spirit and of grace to live the Christian life. So I would add baptism, confirmation, and Eucharist as some of the ways in which the "empowerment of the Holy Spirit" happens.
 

augusta

Member
Or, if one has not simply been mesmerized, terrorized, or hypnotised by religious merchants...for these are counterfeit ways...which desire that you recruit more tithing and alms payers...for their banking religions. But then...you are free...to beg...those who conned you for a few crumbs. Such is the way of the bankers, and their holy spirits...filled with holes.
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Form aside, that is a fair question. How is one supposed to know whether the Holy Spirit is indeed acting, or if one is simply deluded or self-deluded?

Fair, but the implication is that there ought to be some easy rubric by which we can make this discernment. There's not. But it involves analyzing the results of the actions putatively produced by that so-called spirit. The actions of the Holy Spirit lead to peace, love, joy, faithfulness, self-control, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and so forth. It may or may not be attended by flashy displays of miraculous powers -- usually not. It's also a matter of comparison of the results with what scripture says are the typical actions of the Holy Spirit.

Of course, that opens the Christian up to the charge of circularity. We know it's the Holy Spirit in case A because scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit behaves as in case A. Well, how do you know that the bible is trustworthy? Well, it's because it has been given us by God, the Holy Spirit. Is there a way to break the circle?

Yes. We can treat the bible as a book of trustworthy history (of course, arguments can be marshalled for this, but I don't need to do so for the present thread). That book explains how Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and therefore Lord of the whole world. He promised that his departure from this world would usher the Holy Spirit into the world, particularly among the community he had formed. He said that the Holy Spirit would remind them of all truth concerning Jesus and lead them into all other truth. As a result of this coming of the Holy Spirit to the primitive church, some of the members, particularly apostles and their first converts, wrote books by the power of that Holy Spirit. Because they were so empowered, the books/letters they wrote are authoritative. It's those books and letters that tell us how to discern the Holy Spirit.

This argument may have myriad problems and needs for qualification and clarification, but at least it's not circular. And it shows that it's epistemologically sound to use the scriptures as a basis for discerning whether a phenomenon, effect, influence, or action has been a result of the Spirit's work.

There's a question about just how much information the scripture provides. I don't think that the scripture provides us enough information to discern things in all cases. So we have to appeal to our own familiarity with the Spirit in discerning the Spirit. It's imperfect and there are plenty of opportunities to get it wrong. No doubt we get it wrong sometimes. But that's no reason not to make judgments.
 

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
...it involves analyzing the results of the actions putatively produced by that so-called spirit. The actions of the Holy Spirit lead to peace, love, joy, faithfulness, self-control, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and so forth. ...
Greetings Dunemeister. Enjoy reading the thoughts you and Muff have expressed about the Holy Spirit. One question. A human close to me is agnostic yet demonstrates all the characteristics you list including selflessness, thoughtfulness, compassion and so forths. In your opinion would it be said that the HS is active there or something else?
Regards,
a..1
 
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Muffled

Jesus in me
What happens to an individual who comes forward to denounce this character Jesus, as an actor and a fraud? Does that free the genuine intellect of that individual from being psychologically possesed by this counterfeit holy spirit, which is a spirit full of holes(lies)?

The way I understand Paul, if a person could deny his salvation then it would be impossible for him to return to it because having had all the advantages there would be nothing to motivate him to go back to what he rejected.

Sometimes people stray from the HS for awhile but return because they realize how bereft they have become. It is called a desert experience.
 
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augusta

Member
I whole heartedly denounce this character Jesus Christ , as an actor and a fraud. I demand the wicked holy spirit which has spirited away...the intellect and goodness of the Wholesome Spirit of Righteousness...to depart. I also recognize that the character Paul, is an actor and a fraud. I do not honor or recognize dead and fraudulent spirits. This would not be logical, or intelligent.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Greetings Dunemeister. Enjoy reading the thoughts you and Muff have expressed about the Holy Spirit. One question. A human close to me is agnostic yet demonstrates all the characteristics you list including selflessness, thoughtfulness, compassion and so forths. In your opinion would it be said that the HS is active there or something else?
Regards,
a..1

It would take some discerrnment on my part and that doesn't come as easily second hand.

I can think of a couple of possiblities:

1. The person is influenced by an evil spirit to produce a counterfeit in order to discredit Christianity.

2. The person has a cleansed conscience from a previous life.

3. The person has a cleansed conscience from having known the HS in this life.

One of the Hillsong songs has this statement in it, "We will never be the same again." It is somewhat like a virgin losing her virginity. She can never return to a virginal state.
 

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I whole heartedly denounce this character Jesus Christ , as an actor and a fraud. I demand the wicked holy spirit which has spirited away...the intellect and goodness of the Wholesome Spirit of Righteousness...to depart. I also recognize that the character Paul, is an actor and a fraud. I do not honor or recognize dead and fraudulent spirits. This would not be logical, or intelligent.
Greetings augusta. What makes you say that? What is the Wholesome Spirit of Righteousness?
EDIT: AUGUSTA, NEVER MIND RESPONDING TO MY QUESTIONS HERE. JUST NOTICED THAT THIS THREAD IS WITHIN THE CHRISTIANITY FORUMS AND THE QUESTIIONS PROBABLY ARE NOT APPROPRIATE HERE. MODERATOR, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DELETE THIS POST.
 
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autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It would take some discerrnment on my part and that doesn't come as easily second hand.

I can think of a couple of possiblities:
1. The person is influenced by an evil spirit to produce a counterfeit in order to discredit Christianity.
2. The person has a cleansed conscience from a previous life.
3. The person has a cleansed conscience from having known the HS in this life.
....
Greetings Muffled. Thank you for responding to my enquiry. Just for further clarification, could a 4. be added to the effect that the HS works in ways that we may not understand? Is it correct to conclude that you would interpret a really, really 'good' person only in some relation to the Holy Spirit?
 

Minister_E

Member
Form aside, that is a fair question. How is one supposed to know whether the Holy Spirit is indeed acting, or if one is simply deluded or self-deluded?

It's a personal thing a lot of the time...The Holy Spirit won't fall on every at the same time.... It's a personal thing.... The holy spirit aslo known as the holy ghost at times can be identified through gifts...Read the book of Act it gives a lot of clarity on how you know
 

opuntia

Religion is Law
I believe you may need to read the following:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." (John 14:26-27; KJV).

The Holy Ghost is a revelator, meaning that the task of instructing saints occurs within the spirit of the saint. That there is a spirit within us has been touched upon in scripture. "But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding." (Job 32:8).

The heavenly feeling of peace is not something the Devil can duplicate since he has none himself. You will likely feel terror instead of peace.

"But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

"The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble." (Proverbs 4:18-19).

That inspiration comes should be natural to someone who knows what it is and how it acts upon the person. So until you actually receive and get to know inspiration you will likely be groping in the dark, wondering where to go. If you have inspiration you will be able to do what the apostles did:

"And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles [non-Jews].

"But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

"For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." (Matthew 10:18-20).

They remembered the words of Jesus and understood what they should say at that certain hour. It is like having a stroke of genius but in this case it is knowing the correct response to certain questions. This is how Jesus always confounded those who opposed him in argument.

"Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?

"The officers answered, Never man spake like this man." (John 7:45-46).

Jesus studied the scriptures of His day ("the law and the prophets" - Matthew7:12) according to Luke 4:16. And while young He amazed the learned "doctors" at the Jerusalem temple (Luke 2:46-47).

According to the Holy Bible, inspiration is not just a concept to argue about in the streets or on websites but a vital, lively aspect of Christian religion.
 
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