End of Greatness?

[sayak83]

If you see the early and mid twentieth century in any field, you will see people of immense character and caliber dominating the world...great people so to speak. For example:-
Science:- People like Einstein, Neils Bohr, Turing, Bertrand Russel
Pholosophers:- Wiitgenstein, Heidegger, Rawls, Sartre, Huxley etc
Arts:- Picasso, Dali
Literature:- Orwell, Hemmingway, Joyce, Woolf, Elliot, Tagore, (and many others in many other cultures)
Politicians and Social Reformers:- Churchill, Gandhi, MLK, Mandella, Thatcher,
Movies:- Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Satyajit Ray,

These are to just to name a few off the top. Yet if an trying to remember living people of similar stature who are active over the last 30-years (1990 onwards say)...I am drawing blank.....literally.

Is this the case that our society's structure has changed in a way that we are no longer producing great people, but only efficient self-serving mediocrity? Or are we misled by portrayals of history that tends to magnify the past?

Comments and thoughts

 

[Quintessence]

Honestly?

The first thing that came to mind in reading the litany of names in the opening post is how... well... I guess you basically have to be white and male - with few exceptions - to be considered great. And sadly, that hasn't really changed in our mainstream cultural narratives. If that's what greatness means - you've got to be white and male to gain that title, more or less - let it die.

The second thing that came to mind is... I never actually care about the so-called great humans. They mean nothing to me. They are letters on a screen, vacant names that have had no impact on my day-to-day life. I don't know any of them. I do not worship them or idolize them. They are nobodies to me. But my parents? My awesome co-workers? They're not nobodies and have a greatness that vastly outstrips these so-called great humans in my life.

 

[Rival]

Science:- Richard Dawkins, Steven Hawking, David Attenborough.
Philosophers:- Alvin Plantinga, Peter Singer, William Lane Craig, Sam Harris (I think he's crappy but he will be remembered).
Arts:- I don't know artists!
Literature:- Rowling, Christopher Hitchens (alright he's dead but he was very active in the noughties), Douglas Murray and many other journalists.
Politicians and Social Reformers:- Trump, Thomas Sowell, Merkel, Blair, Putin, Zenelsky, Malala Yusafzai, Pope Francis (for good or ill).
Movies:- The Lion King (one of the highest grossing movies of all time), Titanic (same), Harry Potter series, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Passion of the Christ, Jurassic Park, The Matrix.

 

[sayak83]

Honestly?

The first thing that came to mind in reading the litany of names in the opening post is how... well... I guess you basically have to be white and male - with few exceptions - to be considered great. And sadly, that hasn't really changed in our mainstream cultural narratives. If that's what greatness means - you've got to be white and male to gain that title, more or less - let it die.

The second thing that came to mind is... I never actually care about the so-called great humans. They mean nothing to me. They are letters on a screen, vacant names that have had no impact on my day-to-day life. I don't know any of them. I do not worship them or idolize them. They are nobodies to me. But my parents? My awesome co-workers? They're not nobodies and have a greatness that vastly outstrips these so-called great humans in my life.

I put these names because they are recognisable.
I do not deny the immense value of community and family. But I was more thinking of people who shape national and international narratives.

 

[sayak83]

Science:- Richard Dawkins, Steven Hawking, David Attenborough.
Philosophers:- Alvin Plantinga, Peter Singer, William Lane Craig, Sam Harris ( I think he's crappy but he will be remembered).
Arts:- I don't know artists!
Literature:- Rowling, Christopher Hitchens (alright he's dead but he was very active in the noughties), Douglas Murray and many other journalists.
Politicians and Social Reformers:- Trump, Thomas Sowell, Merkel, Blair, Putin, Zenelsky, Malala Yusafzai, Pope Francis (for good or ill).
Movies:- The Lion King (one of the highest grossing movies of all time), Titanic (same), Harry Potter series, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Passion of the Christ, Jurassic Park, The Matrix.

Apart from the movie list, the names you put do not, in my humble opinion, compare in level with the kind of names I am talking about. My opinion only. They are famous enough...but not in that league.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If you see the early and mid twentieth century in any field, you will see people of immense character and caliber dominating the world...great people so to speak. For example:-
Science:- People like Einstein, Neils Bohr, Turing, Bertrand Russel
Pholosophers:- Wiitgenstein, Heidegger, Rawls, Sartre, Huxley etc
Arts:- Picasso, Dali
Literature:- Orwell, Hemmingway, Joyce, Woolf, Elliot, Tagore, (and many others in many other cultures)
Politicians and Social Reformers:- Churchill, Gandhi, MLK, Mandella, Thatcher,
Movies:- Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Satyajit Ray,

These are to just to name a few off the top. Yet if an trying to remember living people of similar stature who are active over the last 30-years (1990 onwards say)...I am drawing blank.....literally.

Is this the case that our society's structure has changed in a way that we are no longer producing great people, but only efficient self-serving mediocrity? Or are we misled by portrayals of history that tends to magnify the past?

Comments and thoughts

It takes time to make most people generally well-known (with the exception of rulers and actors, I suppose -- and the actors, though famous during their lives, fade rapidly from the general memory as new ones come to take their places). Many authors, philosophers and artists who earned little during their lifetimes have been best sellers ever since. Today's best-sellers might not last nearly so long. I suspect that there are many people working, often unnoticed, today who will one day loom large in people's memories for their accomplishments.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

What I see that's different--and which might be cast in historical narratives as causing 'Greatness,'--is the rapid technological and social changes that were taking place from the late 1800s to today...New technologies and scientific theories were rapidly developing, and looking back we can see those who led those discoveries and innovations stand out to us today...in another century, who knows how historians will portray the discoverers and innovators of today...and how they'll assess those that you listed...

Likewise, there was social, political and economic change...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Science:- Richard Dawkins, Steven Hawking, David Attenborough.

I guess one out of three is not too bad.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Science

Maryam Mirzakhani​

Literature

Margaret Atwood​

Political Leaders

Malala Yousafzai​

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If you see the early and mid twentieth century in any field, you will see people of immense character and caliber dominating the world...great people so to speak. For example:-
Science:- People like Einstein, Neils Bohr, Turing, Bertrand Russel
Pholosophers:- Wiitgenstein, Heidegger, Rawls, Sartre, Huxley etc
Arts:- Picasso, Dali
Literature:- Orwell, Hemmingway, Joyce, Woolf, Elliot, Tagore, (and many others in many other cultures)
Politicians and Social Reformers:- Churchill, Gandhi, MLK, Mandella, Thatcher,
Movies:- Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Satyajit Ray,

These are to just to name a few off the top. Yet if an trying to remember living people of similar stature who are active over the last 30-years (1990 onwards say)...I am drawing blank.....literally.

Is this the case that our society's structure has changed in a way that we are no longer producing great people, but only efficient self-serving mediocrity? Or are we misled by portrayals of history that tends to magnify the past?

Comments and thoughts

The greatest reformers have names such as Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, etc

To me that is a great lesson, as all the Names you have offered, mostly embraced the reforms given of those great spiritual teachers.

Regards Tony

 

[Debater Slayer]

If you see the early and mid twentieth century in any field, you will see people of immense character and caliber dominating the world...great people so to speak. For example:-
Science:- People like Einstein, Neils Bohr, Turing, Bertrand Russel
Pholosophers:- Wiitgenstein, Heidegger, Rawls, Sartre, Huxley etc
Arts:- Picasso, Dali
Literature:- Orwell, Hemmingway, Joyce, Woolf, Elliot, Tagore, (and many others in many other cultures)
Politicians and Social Reformers:- Churchill, Gandhi, MLK, Mandella, Thatcher,
Movies:- Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Satyajit Ray,

Are we talking about influence strictly independently of ethics or desirable character qualities? If so, I would have also included Lenin, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Harry Truman (among others) in the category of politicians. Influential scientists that come to mind are also J. Robert Oppenheimer, Richard Feynman, and Marie Curie.

For the present day, I think it will take at least two more decades for us to have a clear picture of the most influential people of the late 20th century and early to mid-21st century. Some names that I think might end up qualifying:

Science, technology, and research: Stephen Hawking, Jane Goodall, Andrew Ng, Terence Tao, and Yann LeCun.

Philosophers: Noam Chomsky, Alvin Plantinga, William Lane Craig, and Slavoj Zizek.

Literature: J. K. Rowling, George R. R. Martin, Stephen King, Margaret Atwood, Neil Gaiman, and Cormac McCarthy.

Politicians: Too early to tell, especially with the unprecedently uncertain times the world is heading into (mainly due to climate change).

Movie directors or producers: Christopher Nolan, Steven Spielberg, Guillermo del Toro, John Carpenter, James Cameron, Quentin Tarantino, and Peter Jackson.

I'm sure I'm missing many, many other names, but for pure influence in different fields (again, strictly independently of judgments about ethics or desirable personal qualities), I think there are a lot of suitable candidates living today.

 

[SomeRandom]

If you see the early and mid twentieth century in any field, you will see people of immense character and caliber dominating the world...great people so to speak. For example:-
Science:- People like Einstein, Neils Bohr, Turing, Bertrand Russel
Pholosophers:- Wiitgenstein, Heidegger, Rawls, Sartre, Huxley etc
Arts:- Picasso, Dali
Literature:- Orwell, Hemmingway, Joyce, Woolf, Elliot, Tagore, (and many others in many other cultures)
Politicians and Social Reformers:- Churchill, Gandhi, MLK, Mandella, Thatcher,
Movies:- Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Satyajit Ray,

These are to just to name a few off the top. Yet if an trying to remember living people of similar stature who are active over the last 30-years (1990 onwards say)...I am drawing blank.....literally.

Is this the case that our society's structure has changed in a way that we are no longer producing great people, but only efficient self-serving mediocrity? Or are we misled by portrayals of history that tends to magnify the past?

Comments and thoughts

I think we tend to magnify the past and then conveniently forget all the downfalls of otherwise great minds. Whilst not to slight the great names of the past, they’re still human and therefore not perfect and that’s fine.
But that can give a false impression for us.

Given the lists already on this thread I don’t think I can offer much more but there are still great names to list among our generation and that’s cool.


As an aside, whilst I largely agree with the names listed by other posters, I find it interesting that many included J K Rowling among the literary names.
Now don’t get me wrong I grew up on Harry Potter and still consider myself a fan of the series. I honestly don’t think she is as great an author. Her world building was pretty good. I find her prose not that great.
Though I suppose given the impact her series has had on pop culture, it makes sense to include her.
I’m just a little mixed on putting her alongside the likes of Tolkien and George R R Martin.
Just my opinion.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Though I suppose given the impact her series has had on pop culture, it makes sense to include her.

Yeah, that's why I included her. I understood the thread to be about influence regardless of any other factors, so I think she definitely qualifies in the literary field.

 

[Quagmire]

Literature: J. K. Rowling, George R. R. Martin, Stephen King, Margaret Atwood, Neil Gaiman, and Cormac McCarthy

I find it interesting that many included J K Rowling among the literary names.

I’m just a little mixed on putting her alongside the likes of Tolkien and George R R Martin.
Just my opinion

I understand the appeal, but I have to admit I smirk a little bit at how far are standards have fallen when it comes to what society now considers "great" literature.

Don't get me wrong, I get a guilty pleasure from reading Stephen King, R R Martin, Ann Rice, and a few other popular authors, but the idea of their names ever winding up on the same lists with Shakespeare, Dickens, Hugo, Tolstoy, Austen, Verne, Stevenson, Orwell, Sinclair, Hemingway, Steinbeck, . . . um, no.

I mean, a lot of today's authors are a lot of fun to read, but could you see King, Rice, Martin, Tolkien or any of them ever becoming required reading in a literature class?

What I find lacking in todays authors is that, while they may entertain us, do they really teach us anything?

To me, what makes the great authors of the past great is the insights they give us into human nature. They actually help us understand things about ourselves and our world.

I don't see much of that in today's offerings. There are a few exceptions: John Grisham, John Clancy, Ken Follett, Barbara Kingslover come to mind.

But I think the fact that names like King, Rowling, Martin, and Rice are more recognizable says something about us as a society: we would rather be distracted than enlightened.
(then again maybe it's always been that way).

 

[Debater Slayer]

I understand the appeal, but I have to admit I smirk a little bit at how far are standards have fallen when it comes to what society now considers "great" literature.

Don't get me wrong, I get a guilty pleasure from reading Stephen King, R R Martin, Ann Rice, and a few other popular authors, but the idea of their names ever winding up on the same lists with Shakespeare, Dickens, Hugo, Tolstoy, Austen, Verne, Stevenson, Orwell, Sinclair, Hemingway, Steinbeck, . . . um, no.

I mean, a lot of today's authors are a lot of fun to read, but could you see King, Rice, Martin, Tolkien or any of them ever becoming required reading in a literature class?

What I find lacking in todays authors is that, while they may entertain us, do they really teach us anything?

To me, what makes the great authors of the past great is the insights they give us into human nature. They actually help us understand things about ourselves and our world.

I don't see much of that in today's offerings. There are a few exceptions: John Grisham, John Clancy, Ken Follett, Barbara Kingslover come to mind.

But I think the fact that names like King, Rowling, Martin, and Rice are more recognizable says something about us: we would rather be distracted than enlightened.
(then again maybe it's always been that way).

I think a part of it is that so much has already been written and done that truly novel ideas are much harder to conceive of now. In different fields of knowledge and even entertainment, we're mostly expanding and building up on past knowledge instead of doing much that's radically new.

Even AI, arguably the defining technology of our current era, is largely just an amalgamation of multiple disciplines such as software engineering, psychology, mathematics, and cognitive science. I don't know whether we will ever have another moment as radical as Einstein's publication of the theory of relativity or Darwin's proposal of the theory of evolution.

Then again, some of the best the works of H. P. Lovecraft and John Carpenter were overlooked or snubbed when they were first released but gained significant praise in later decades. I think changing tastes and cultures also affect what we consider to be "great" in any given field.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Literature:- Rowling, Christopher Hitchens (alright he's dead but he was very active in the noughties), Douglas Murray and many other journalists.

How does a Brit not include Douglas Adams?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A modern artist fir everyone is Hansruedi Giger.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The second thing that came to mind is... I never actually care about the so-called great humans. They mean nothing to me. They are letters on a screen, vacant names that have had no impact on my day-to-day life.

Actually your day to day life exists amd happens as it does because of those like Faraday (magnetics), Einstein (Relativity) and Tesla (radio waves and more).

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I think we tend to magnify the past and then conveniently forget all the downfalls of otherwise great minds. Whilst not to slight the great names of the past, they’re still human and therefore not perfect and that’s fine.
But that can give a false impression for us.

Given the lists already on this thread I don’t think I can offer much more but there are still great names to list among our generation and that’s cool.


As an aside, whilst I largely agree with the names listed by other posters, I find it interesting that many included J K Rowling among the literary names.
Now don’t get me wrong I grew up on Harry Potter and still consider myself a fan of the series. I honestly don’t think she is as great an author. Her world building was pretty good. I find her prose not that great.
Though I suppose given the impact her series has had on pop culture, it makes sense to include her.
I’m just a little mixed on putting her alongside the likes of Tolkien and George R R Martin.
Just my opinion.

Just goes to my point, earlier -- we don't get to decide who among us history will regard as having been important.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No votes for Alfred or Steven? Afterall, they are among the few regarded as the Great who weren't warmongers and actually did quite a bit for their people (including tirelessly and endlessly defending them from invasions).