Engagement problem/issue

[cfer]

My fiancee and I are getting married one month from today. But there's a problem.

First off, let me say that I love this woman with all my heart and being, and she feels the same for me. (At least that's what she says, and her actions back her words, so I don't doubt her for one instant!)

The problem is she is a Christian, solid believer in God and Jesus, and lately I have come to realize that I am not. I can see that this bothers her. I've tried to talk to her about it, but she usually changes the subject. I think she believes that if she ignores it long enough, I'll come around to her way of thinking.

I should say that I was brought up Lutheran and that I've tried to do Bible study with her and tried to make Christianity fit, but I just can't. I believe in spirituality and people having a soul, but I just don't know about God and Jesus, the miracles, etc. I am somewhat a cynical person, and tend not to believe things unless I see and/or hear with my own senses.

I'm not saying I don't believe in God, per se. I just don't know. At times I feel a connectedness with society and all living things, at others I feel far removed from anyone and any thing. I do know I have a problem with a lot of Christians and other "religious" people not practicing what they preach, so organized religion is really tough for me. I just can't find any one doctrine that does it for me.

The problem is I know it hurts my fiancee, and I don't want to do that. Her belief is that if I don't believe, I am going to go to Hell when I die. And that upsets her. She doesn't want that, she wants me to be in heaven with her when I die. (I don't want to go to Hell, either! But, having a problem with the "You must believe to be saved" idea, I don't think that's going to happen. Of course, there is part of me that wonders what's gonna happen if I'm wrong. But I think that's just a lot of my Christian upbringing coming through. If I was exposed to something else during my 30 years on Earth, Buddhism, Taoism, Wicca, etc., I'm sure the Christian thought of Hell wouldn't scare me nearly as much, if at all.)

So, my question. What do I do? I don't want to hurt the love of my life. But I have to be true to myself, too. Please advise!

Thanks!

 

[Rex]

Me and you are in the same boat my friend.

And I have no answers.

 

[Green Gaia]

Wow, spiritual or religious differences can be a relationship killer, or at the very least make things tough. I suggest couples counseling, and possible postponement of the wedding until this is resolved. Not what you want to hear, I'm sure, but its far better to deal with this now than 5 years down the road when things could possibly be worse.

 

[jewscout]

communication communication communication communication

cornerstone of any relationship, cfer if you and your fiance can't sit down and discuss this what are you going to do when you get married and other problems arise? You would have already set a precedent for not discussing the issue.
I don't have a clear answer for you man but i think that's the best first step you can make i think...

aside from that it's up to ya'lls ability to understand that nothing is ever going to be perfect and if you truely love each other you'll find a way to work through this...

it sux tho

 

[Halcyon]

I'm sorry cfer, you're in a difficult situation. I only know that, yes, you must be true to yourself.
If i know anything about God (which i'm not saying i certainly do) its that if you follow your conscience God will not condemn you to any form of hell, because you've done what you know is right. A truly good God would not condemn people with good hearts to torture, it wouldn't be in its nature.
I guess that's not much help with you're problem, but in any case, I wish you and your fiance the best of luck

 

[linwood]

cfer,

Take the advice Maize gave you.
Right now it is just about you and her and it`s obvious that your beliefs are in a process of serious inquiry.

What if you come to the conclusion that you believe none of it or something entirely different than Christianity?
What if you come to this conclusion a couple years after you marry?
What if you have a child a year after that?
What iof she wants to indioctrinate this child into a religion you have absolutely no belief in?

What happens then?

Wait and work it out if you can.
if you can`t then move on, love does not make the world go `round.

 

[michel]

Oh this is so sad !- and, I am sure, all too often.
I don't believe that either of you will ever be happy whilst one of you is 'keeping the peace' by saying nothing.

However much you love each other, and even though your fiancee doesn't seem to want to broach the subject.
1) Go to see a relationship councillor (as both Maize and Lynwood have suggested)
2) Sit down together and explain to her how worried you are, because you sense that she's unhappy; give her the opportunity to bring up the subject, and go from there. Whatever you do, make sure you make it obvious that you want to resolve this so that you are both happy. Maybe you can find a compromise; meet each other half way. Love conquers all.If you're unsure you can handle it between the two of you, then go for the councellor; I personally think you will both feel better without a third party.
Good luck, and I wish you and your Fiancee all the very best

 

[Prima]

Maize is entirely right. Couples counseling is a must.

Also, as nerve-wracking as it is, you really need to talk to her about what SHE thinks, not just what you think.

- why does she feel uncomfortable about it?
- would she agree to disagree?
- if you two agree to disagree, what religion are you going to raise the (possible) children?


You need to understand where she's coming from if you guys are going to be able to work it out.

But keep in mind that sometimes it's NOT work-out-able. You might love her with all your heart, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a marriage will work.

I wish you the best of luck *virtual hug*

 

[cfer]

Thanks, everyone, for your responses.

I know it's going to be a hard road ahead.

Some of you brought up the idea of children. I have told her repeatedly that I don't mind her having the children being brought up in a Christian upbringing, and I still stand by that. But, as they get older, I won't get in the way of them exploring other possibilities, like my parents did with me.

I still think that, between the two of us, we can find common ground here, because we do both care for one another so much. It ain't gonna be easy, I'm sure, and it very well might involve some kind of couples counciling, but I'm not about to throw it away because we have different beliefs. I've invested too much into this relationship to just toss it aside like that. (We've been engaged for 2 years.)

This is just kind of depressing, that's all.

 

[Green Gaia]

I think is it very possible to have a wonderful relationship and not believe the same thing, however both parties have to agree to disagree and if you can do that, I think you'll be OK. But I would still suggest talking to someone about it together and to each other.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[michel]

Thanks, everyone, for your responses.

I know it's going to be a hard road ahead.

Some of you brought up the idea of children. I have told her repeatedly that I don't mind her having the children being brought up in a Christian upbringing, and I still stand by that. But, as they get older, I won't get in the way of them exploring other possibilities, like my parents did with me.

I still think that, between the two of us, we can find common ground here, because we do both care for one another so much. It ain't gonna be easy, I'm sure, and it very well might involve some kind of couples counciling, but I'm not about to throw it away because we have different beliefs. I've invested too much into this relationship to just toss it aside like that. (We've been engaged for 2 years.)

This is just kind of depressing, that's all.

I'm sure it is, and I can't say 'I know how you feel'-no one can truly empathise; again, I wish you all the best of luck and happiness.

 

[Prima]

I greatly admire your strength. If I were in that situation, I would feel the same way you would - I don't think any of us would suggest you give up such a loving relationship for one issue Thankfully, once my boyfriend and I discussed it, we agreed to disagree So have faith! it IS possible. One thing I did was to explain to him WHY I felt that way. Wicca helps me a lot with my self-esteem, which could use helping. When put that way, my boyfriend understood why I love Wicca so much Again, I wish you the best.

 

[Ceridwen018]

You know what, cfer? I don't think it will be as hard as everyone is making it out to be. I mean, change always requires adjustment, but with as much as you two love each other, I don't see how you can't work through this.

 

[linwood]

You know what, cfer? I don't think it will be as hard as everyone is making it out to be. I mean, change always requires adjustment, but with as much as you two love each other, I don't see how you can't work through this.

You may very well be right Ceredwin but you may be wrong.

It might be a good idea to have a chat with some of the folks at Atheistparents.org to see the troubles it can cause from a firsthand source.

Granted cfer you aren`t atheist but the problems would be roughly the same.

There are many many people there struggling for years with this problem in their marriages.

I just want to repeat..
Love does not make the world go `round, nor will it make everything "alright".
Things like this that may not seem that big a deal at the outset often grow over time into something that makes you wonder why you loved the person in the first place.

At the very least cfer please have a long discussion that actually accomplishes the goals of stating exactly what you both expect of each other as far as respecting each others beliefs and lifestyles formed by those beliefs and how your children will be taught/raised.

I cannot stress the importance of this enough.

It will eventually mean the difference between eutopia or misery.

 

[Lightkeeper]

My fiancee and I are getting married one month from today. But there's a problem.

First off, let me say that I love this woman with all my heart and being, and she feels the same for me. (At least that's what she says, and her actions back her words, so I don't doubt her for one instant!)

The problem is she is a Christian, solid believer in God and Jesus, and lately I have come to realize that I am not. I can see that this bothers her. I've tried to talk to her about it, but she usually changes the subject. I think she believes that if she ignores it long enough, I'll come around to her way of thinking.

I should say that I was brought up Lutheran and that I've tried to do Bible study with her and tried to make Christianity fit, but I just can't. I believe in spirituality and people having a soul, but I just don't know about God and Jesus, the miracles, etc. I am somewhat a cynical person, and tend not to believe things unless I see and/or hear with my own senses.

I'm not saying I don't believe in God, per se. I just don't know. At times I feel a connectedness with society and all living things, at others I feel far removed from anyone and any thing. I do know I have a problem with a lot of Christians and other "religious" people not practicing what they preach, so organized religion is really tough for me. I just can't find any one doctrine that does it for me.

The problem is I know it hurts my fiancee, and I don't want to do that. Her belief is that if I don't believe, I am going to go to Hell when I die. And that upsets her. She doesn't want that, she wants me to be in heaven with her when I die. (I don't want to go to Hell, either! But, having a problem with the "You must believe to be saved" idea, I don't think that's going to happen. Of course, there is part of me that wonders what's gonna happen if I'm wrong. But I think that's just a lot of my Christian upbringing coming through. If I was exposed to something else during my 30 years on Earth, Buddhism, Taoism, Wicca, etc., I'm sure the Christian thought of Hell wouldn't scare me nearly as much, if at all.)

So, my question. What do I do? I don't want to hurt the love of my life. But I have to be true to myself, too. Please advise!

Thanks!

Continue to be true to yourself. It's difficult for two people to stay on the same spiritual path. We all grow at different rates. I think you need to be honest with her that you have your own spirituality and that's why she loves you. You shouldn't have to change for her. Spirituality is a very personal thing. I think you need to decide before you are married how religion will be handled with any children you have. She also needs to know that you probably won't become a full blown Christian. If you were more sure about your feelings about heaven and hell she might not worry.

 

[Melody]

The problem is she is a Christian, solid believer in God and Jesus, and lately I have come to realize that I am not. I can see that this bothers her. I've tried to talk to her about it, but she usually changes the subject. I think she believes that if she ignores it long enough, I'll come around to her way of thinking.

So, my question. What do I do? I don't want to hurt the love of my life. But I have to be true to myself, too. Please advise!

Cfer,

She is not likely to change her beliefs....and she needs to realize that you may never change yours. Disastrous results await those who enter marriage with the idea that "I can change them after we're married."

I would recommend sitting down with a counselor and discuss some of the issues that may crop up (such as children) as a result of the different beliefs. Find out how she's going to feel going to church every Sunday on her own (unless, of course, you're planning on going just to please her) and knowing that this is a part of her life the two of you may never share. Discuss how you'll handle the various situations.

Better to find out it's a problem now, than after innocent children are involved.

Good luck.

 

[robtex]

Have Cfer I felt you on the fence when soon after you registered here. I would give you advice by my ex gf kicked me to the curb in part to my asention from theistic UU to atheist UU. Now when I date woman I just tell them right up front I don't believe in God but its a delicate situation when you are in a relationship already.

Can I ask how does she know you are not a Christian? If I remember correctly you were when you got here. I wish the best for you.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Figure out where your heart is with religion and explain that to her. Do not try and intellectualize it with her. And as Melody said, she must go into the marriage not expecting you to change. If she is ok with that, you're golden.

I hope for the best!

 

[mrscardero]

I think is it very possible to have a wonderful relationship and not believe the same thing, however both parties have to agree to disagree and if you can do that, I think you'll be OK. But I would still suggest talking to someone about it together and to each other.

I wish you the best of luck.

carrdero and I don't believe in the same things. We may agree and disagree but we are still together. We didn't believe in the same things before we met and we are still like this to this day. I will ask him about what his beliefs or ask questions, but that does not mean that I will have to follow. Understanding each other is the key.
carrdero is Patrickism and I am Elmolufian.

 

[cfer]

Can I ask how does she know you are not a Christian? If I remember correctly you were when you got here. I wish the best for you.

You're right. When I first signed up for the forums, I considered myself Christian, but with a lot of questions and issues. After spending time on this site, I decided to back myself up a little and say "I'm not sure", so I decided I can no longer call myself Christian, per se. I officially call myself unsure with taoist leanings if anyone asks.

As for how my fiancee found out, that's simple. I told her. We have a very open relationship and tend to communicate very well, which is why this problem has upset me -- we weren't communicating on this issue. It seemed that the subject always got changed when it was brought up. Thankfully that has changed.

Last night we sat down and really had a good talk about the whole situation. It was rough at some points, but overall it was very good! I started out telling her my issues with and doubts about Chrisitanity and saying I don't think I can be called a Christian because of them. Then I told her of my worries for the relationship, and then asked her directly what she thought of it all. She said it used to matter (when she was single) that she date a Christian. She no longer thinks that. (I guess I must've changed her mind on that one. :woohoo: ) She says she still would like our children raised as Christians, and I have no problem with that. I'm a tolerant person, and I feel that it's good for kids to have a moral base, and Christianity was a good *start* for me. Plus, little kids have such a pure faith, it's really nice to see. She mainly wants us to go to church together, as a family. I told her I could still do that, because, being tolerant of any religion, I would gladly go, especialy for the sake of our children. (I'd do it if she were Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever). But I also made it clear that when they start to question (for they will), that I'm not going to gloss over anything. I'll let my doubts be known and help them explore other religions so they can find one that's right for them. My fiancee had no problem with that, either.

To make a long story short, the crises has been averted. :jiggy:

I would like to thank you all for the advice and good lucks that I have received from this thread. I was pretty down yesterday, thinking about the whole situation. But since we can agree to disagree, there is no issue. We can go back to being the happy, loving couple that we are! (Sorry. Didn't mean to make any of you gag on that one.... :jiggy: )