Escapism (or Nah)

[SalixIncendium]

Escapism is practiced voluntarily in different forms such as alcohol/drug use or abuse when dealing with adverse circumstances in "reality."

My question has more to do with escapism at subconscious level.

Have any of you experienced an involuntary slip into a meditative state when dealing with an unpleasant situation? If so, what is your take on such an experience?


ETA: By meditative state, I am not speaking of daydreaming. I am speaking of a state of consciousness where one is separated from active thought. The state of simple awareness.

ETA2: After 13 posts ITT, we have finally established the state that I was attempting to communicate in the OP. If you're unclear what I'm asking here, you can feel free to jump here.

 

[Kemosloby]

Sure, all the time. When someone's conversation starts to lag they get zoned out, my mind starts to wander and daydream about other things while consciously nodding in agreement so not to be rude.

 

[Revoltingest]

When stuck in some boring movie...or worse yet,
a play, I close my eyes & design machinery.

 

[BSM1]

Escapism is practiced voluntarily in different forms such as alcohol/drug use or abuse when dealing with adverse circumstances in "reality."

My question has more to do with escapism at subconscious level.

Have any of you experienced an involuntary slip into a meditative state when dealing with an unpleasant situation? If so, what is your take on such an experience?

Sure, all the time. When someone's conversation starts to lag they get zoned out, my mind starts to wander and daydream about other things while consciously nodding in agreement so not to be rude.

When stuck in some boring movie...or worse yet,
a play, I close my eyes & design machinery.

I'm sorry. What did you say?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Escapism is practiced voluntarily in different forms such as alcohol/drug use or abuse when dealing with adverse circumstances in "reality."

My question has more to do with escapism at subconscious level.

Have any of you experienced an involuntary slip into a meditative state when dealing with an unpleasant situation? If so, what is your take on such an experience?

Are you talking about day dreaming or some other more active kind of meditative state?

 

[bobhikes]

Escapism is practiced voluntarily in different forms such as alcohol/drug use or abuse when dealing with adverse circumstances in "reality."

My question has more to do with escapism at subconscious level.

Have any of you experienced an involuntary slip into a meditative state when dealing with an unpleasant situation? If so, what is your take on such an experience?

When ever I have been in an extreme situation for example I lost control of my car avoiding a deer and headed straight into a Highway sign my brain checks out. I get extremely calm and watch the scenario play out in slow motion. I can see everything that is happening but have no feelings but calm. Once control of the incident comes back my brain switches back on with a burst of feelings and actions flooding my system. I have to take a moment once out of danger to resolve my feelings and need for action this for me is the most uncomfortable part.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Are you talking about day dreaming or some other more active kind of meditative state?

Thanks for this question. I'll adjust the OP to be more specific.

The latter. I'm speaking of a meditative state where one is separated from active thoughts.

 

[Windwalker]

My question has more to do with escapism at subconscious level.

Have any of you experienced an involuntary slip into a meditative state when dealing with an unpleasant situation? If so, what is your take on such an experience?

To clarify what you might mean here, being in a meditative state makes you far more present and aware of things than escapism, which is more about distracting oneself from being present and aware. Are you meaning involuntarily withdrawing from something, like slipping into a shutdown, protective state?

Meditative states can happen spontaneously, but I find that rather the result of encountering profound Beauty, not fear. On the other hand, in an extreme situation the mind can instantly become hyper-present and hyper aware. But I think I'd call that more a fight-flight response where the mind shuts out everything but that one single thought of survival. I've had that experience before, and it's rather remarkable. I don't directly equate that with meditative states since its so single-pointed focus (my meditation is much more a 'defocal' or awareness meditation, as opposed to concentrative).

 

[Windwalker]

I'm speaking of a meditative state where one is separated from active thoughts.

Are you more present and engaged as a result, or detached and removed, lethargic and dulled? If the latter, that sounds more like what is termed "sinking mind".

 

[Windwalker]

Here's something intersting I found on sinking mind, if you're interested:

We want to develop a mind that is both Tranquil and Alert. Too much tranquility without alertness and we’re in dreamland. We sometimes call it “sinking mind”, it tends to be dreamy and pleasant. It’s relaxing, but it’s not conducive to awareness, to mindfulness. The first thing to do is to recognize it when it happens. Then to consciously intend to put a little more effort into staying mindful. How is the posture? The breathing? Sometimes it helps to start the sitting with a clear intention that we want to stay present with each breath. Pay particular attention to this balance in the coming week.

• We want to develop a mind that is both Tranquil and Alert. Too much tranquility without alertness and we’re in dreamland. Too much alertness and no tranquility, and we can be tense or quickly either planning or worrying about the future, or regretting the past…
​

From here: http://insightmeditationcenter.org/articles/FiveHindrances.pdf

 

[SalixIncendium]

To clarify what you might mean here, being in a meditative state makes you far more present and aware of things than escapism, which is more about distracting oneself from being present and aware. Are you meaning involuntarily withdrawing from something, like slipping into a shutdown, protective state?

Good question. It's difficult to describe. I'm not sure I would describe it as a shutdown or a protective state resulting from fear, because I've experience this before and what I'm describing here is quite different. It is is more of the experience of the transition when one chooses to enter a meditative state, but in this circumstance not actively choosing to do so. It is a transition not brought on by fear, but perhaps by the knowledge that the ego self has not arrived at a reaction that would be productive to the situation.

Not sure if that makes sense to you, but it did in my head...well...kind of.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Are you more present and engaged as a result, or detached and removed, lethargic and dulled? If the latter, that sounds more like what is termed "sinking mind".

Here's something intersting I found on sinking mind, if you're interested:

We want to develop a mind that is both Tranquil and Alert. Too much tranquility without alertness and we’re in dreamland. We sometimes call it “sinking mind”, it tends to be dreamy and pleasant. It’s relaxing, but it’s not conducive to awareness, to mindfulness. The first thing to do is to recognize it when it happens. Then to consciously intend to put a little more effort into staying mindful. How is the posture? The breathing? Sometimes it helps to start the sitting with a clear intention that we want to stay present with each breath. Pay particular attention to this balance in the coming week.

• We want to develop a mind that is both Tranquil and Alert. Too much tranquility without alertness and we’re in dreamland. Too much alertness and no tranquility, and we can be tense or quickly either planning or worrying about the future, or regretting the past…
​

From here: http://insightmeditationcenter.org/articles/FiveHindrances.pdf

I've experienced the "sinking mind" you are describing during the shutdown mode you mentioned in a previous post.

When I slip into the meditative state I am speaking of, I am acutely aware of what is going on around me, what I see, what I hear, what I feel, but I am detached and inactive, and in more of an observation mode than an action mode. I'm not compelled to respond to stimuli until I realize mentally what is happening and snap myself back to "reality."

ETA: Thanks for the link. Reading the PDF now.

 

[Windwalker]

When I slip into the meditative state I am speaking of, I am acutely aware of what is going on around me, what I see, what I hear, what I feel, but I am detached and inactive, and in more of an observation mode than an action mode. I'm not compelled to respond to stimuli until I realize mentally what is happening and snap myself back to "reality."

I understanding being in the Witness state fairly well. It is much more the norm for me these days. Sort of a nice break from all the stuff we normally chew on with our minds, ruminating about this or that, engaging in all the emotional concerns that comes with that. We can still experience them, but more as an observer versus the participant. We watch ourselves, from above so to speak. But this brings up the other thing that comes to mind that is a very important distinction to make. There is a very big difference between detachment, versus non-attachment, which is largely what is experienced in that Witnessing state.

I did a quick search and found this I think explains this difference pretty well:

The teachings of non-attachment shouldn't be mistaken for a lack of love or compassion.

It's often mistaken as detachment, which is something altogether different.

Non-attachment is essentially a practice of presence and mindfulness. It is not allowing your sense of wellbeing to rely upon anything other than your own presence of awareness. It means to be in the world, but not of the world.

Detachment however, means to distance oneself from the world out of total disinterest. It’s an aloofness that separates oneself from the rest of the world. Essentially, it is escapism—which is a form of suffering.

A practice of non-attachment however, doesn’t affect how you appreciate, love, admire and enjoy life. It simply means that your happiness is no longer defined by anything outside of you. In other words, you remain free.
​

From here: Understanding the Difference Between Non-Attachment vs. Detachment

It is interesting they used that very word, escapism, to describe it. Does this sound about right?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I understanding being in the Witness state fairly well. It is much more the norm for me these days. Sort of a nice break from all the stuff we normally chew on with our minds, ruminating about this or that, engaging in all the emotional concerns that comes with that. We can still experience them, but more as an observer versus the participant. We watch ourselves, from above so to speak. But this brings up the other thing that comes to mind that is a very important distinction to make. There is a very big difference between detachment, versus non-attachment, which is largely what is experienced in that Witnessing state.

I did a quick search and found this I think explains this difference pretty well:

The teachings of non-attachment shouldn't be mistaken for a lack of love or compassion.

It's often mistaken as detachment, which is something altogether different.

Non-attachment is essentially a practice of presence and mindfulness. It is not allowing your sense of wellbeing to rely upon anything other than your own presence of awareness. It means to be in the world, but not of the world.

Detachment however, means to distance oneself from the world out of total disinterest. It’s an aloofness that separates oneself from the rest of the world. Essentially, it is escapism—which is a form of suffering.

A practice of non-attachment however, doesn’t affect how you appreciate, love, admire and enjoy life. It simply means that your happiness is no longer defined by anything outside of you. In other words, you remain free.
​

From here: Understanding the Difference Between Non-Attachment vs. Detachment

It is interesting they used that very word, escapism, to describe it. Does this sound about right?

I think you hit the nail on the head with the Witness state. And based on what I'm reading, it appears my perceived 'detachment' is more accurately described as 'non-attachment.' I suppose that means my 'escapism' thread really has little to nothing to do with escapism.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Now that we've finally established (with @Windwalker's assistance) what I was attempting to describe in the OP, has anyone here ever entered the above described Witness state without actively making the choice to do so?

 

[Nakosis]

Escapism is practiced voluntarily in different forms such as alcohol/drug use or abuse when dealing with adverse circumstances in "reality."

My question has more to do with escapism at subconscious level.

Have any of you experienced an involuntary slip into a meditative state when dealing with an unpleasant situation? If so, what is your take on such an experience?


ETA: By meditative state, I am not speaking of daydreaming. I am speaking of a state of consciousness where one is separated from active thought. The state of simple awareness.

Sure, when I'm teaching a group of folks on a technical subject I have complete certainty about.

I find myself (my conscious self) sitting back passively while I let my subconscious self take over. Don't even need to be consciously present. My subconscious has all of the knowledge, can answer all of the questions faster, more accurately than I consciously could. Knows how to keep the presentation interesting, entertaining.

I see my conscious self as such a small part of my entire being I suspect I'd get along quite well without it. The only thing that would be missing is the subjective experience. As far as the people I was teaching went, they'd have no idea that I wasn't subjectively present.

Of course I am. I just observe, more or less amazed at how unnecessary consciousness is at times.