eternal reincarnation?

[horntooth]

we know that the abrahamic religions and zoroastianism preach eternal heaven, and interestingly, almost all religion that preach reincarnation have a similar teaching, too. hinduism, jainism, buddhism, platonism, sikhism, spiritism, etc, but there are exceptions..

arya samaj, a religious movement founded in 1875 that accepts the vedas as it's scripture teaches that there's no eternal heaven or eternal moksha; after you die you go to heaven or hell, you stay there for some time (as much as you earned), and then you reincarnate in the material world again; and that's it.

some neopagans believe in reincarnation without believing in some eternal heaven, or "escape from the circle of reincarnation", it's the general opinion that some ancient "pagans" believed the same thing, like pythagoreans and druids.

why would there be a need to escape reincarnation? do you know of any more religious traditions that favor eternal reincarnation?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

we know that the abrahamic religions and zoroastianism preach eternal heaven, and interestingly, almost all religion that preach reincarnation have a similar teaching, too. hinduism, jainism, buddhism, platonism, sikhism, spiritism, etc, but there are exceptions..

arya samaj, a religious movement founded in 1875 that accepts the vedas as it's scripture teaches that there's no eternal heaven or eternal moksha; after you die you go to heaven or hell, you stay there for some time (as much as you earned), and then you reincarnate in the material world again; and that's it.

some neopagans believe in reincarnation without believing in some eternal heaven, or "escape from the circle of reincarnation", it's the general opinion that some ancient "pagans" believed the same thing, like pythagoreans and druids.

why would there be a need to escape reincarnation? do you know of any more religious traditions that favor eternal reincarnation?

Many Neo-pagans do tend to favor eternal reincarnation through an understanding of the cyclical nature of life.

Interestingly, the Pythagorean's suggested the idea of eternal recurrence (which Nietzsche also wrote about) where, if the universe is finite and time is infinite, there will be an endless series of infinite progressions of existences. Eternal return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[LuisDantas]

we know that the abrahamic religions and zoroastianism preach eternal heaven, and interestingly, almost all religion that preach reincarnation have a similar teaching, too. hinduism, jainism, buddhism, platonism, sikhism, spiritism, etc, but there are exceptions..

I'm not sure I can convince you, but IMO Spiritism does not have a similar teaching to any of the others. Its doctrine has a very interesting build, in fact, albeit one not accompanied by particularly healthy contents.

As for Buddhism, it is neither reincarnationist nor particularly directed towards any ideas of an eternal heaven. You may have been reading too much into concepts such as Pure Land and Nirvana, which are in fact mental states.

arya samaj, a religious movement founded in 1875 that accepts the vedas as it's scripture teaches that there's no eternal heaven or eternal moksha; after you die you go to heaven or hell, you stay there for some time (as much as you earned), and then you reincarnate in the material world again; and that's it.

some neopagans believe in reincarnation without believing in some eternal heaven, or "escape from the circle of reincarnation", it's the general opinion that some ancient "pagans" believed the same thing, like pythagoreans and druids.

why would there be a need to escape reincarnation? do you know of any more religious traditions that favor eternal reincarnation?

In a way, Spiritism does. One of its main dogmas is that people keep reincarnating with ever more elevated "levels of spiritual evolution". According to them, it is only a matter of time for each and every person to eventually reach and then surpass the level that Jesus had when alive. But even then, people will supposedly keep reincarnating, albeit no longer in Earth or even in a necessarily physical planet.

 

[horntooth]

I'm not sure I can convince you, but IMO Spiritism does not have a similar teaching to any of the others. Its doctrine has a very interesting build, in fact, albeit one not accompanied by particularly healthy contents.

the point is that spiritism eaches reincarnation, and that reincarnation can be "escaped" by becoming an "angel", a morally perfected being that does not incarnate any more, read about "angels" in kardec's five books.

As for Buddhism, it is neither reincarnationist nor particularly directed towards any ideas of an eternal heaven.

in buddism, there are doctrines of "rebirth" and "nirvana". it fits.

 

[LuisDantas]

the point is that spiritism eaches reincarnation, and that reincarnation can be "escaped" by becoming an "angel", a morally perfected being that does not incarnate any more, read about "angels" in kardec's five books.

Never heard of that, despite some heavy (way too heavy) exposure to Kardecism. I'll take your claim at face value, but it is still true that Spiritism teachings are an ill fit to those of any traditional religion. Even Hinduism's reincarnation beliefs are quite unlike Spiritism's.

in buddism, there are doctrines of "rebirth" and "nirvana". it fits.

Uh, no, it really does not. Not at all.

 

[horntooth]

Uh, no, it really does not. Not at all.

it's close enough.. x)

 

[LuisDantas]

Really, no, it isn't. If you are willing to stretch your standards that much, there isn't even a point in making the exercise in the first place. You might as well include Christian beliefs as well; they're much closer to reincarnation that Rebirth would be.

 

[horntooth]

are you bloody kidding me? christianity teaches eternal heaven/hell, whereas buddhism teaches karma, and multiple temporary heavens and hells, and teaches that consciousness reincarnates, and calles that "rebirth", to differentiate it from the teaching that a soul reincarnates. and christianity is closer to reincarnation than buddhism? gimme a break <_<

 

[Engyo]

in buddism, there are doctrines of "rebirth" and "nirvana". it fits.

Rebirth is quite different from reincarnation, as well as NOT being eternal. Nirvana is cessation, or enlightenment, depending on your preferred interpretation. Neither are eternal.

For proof, investigate the Buddhist concepts of emptiness and dependent arising.

 

[horntooth]

For proof, investigate the Buddhist concepts of emptiness and dependent arising.

not interested..
okay, let us pretend that in the first post i didn't include buddhism.

 

[Penumbra]

why would there be a need to escape reincarnation?

Eternal reincarnation would be pretty hellish in my opinion.

 

[horntooth]

Eternal reincarnation would be pretty hellish in my opinion.

and eternal heaven wouldn't?

 

[Penumbra]

and eternal heaven wouldn't?

Nah, that sounds hellish too. Something like Moksha or Nirvana sounds better than eternal reincarnation though.

 

[horntooth]

Nah, that sounds hellish too. Something like Moksha or Nirvana sounds better than eternal reincarnation though.

and how would moksha or nirvana be different than eternal heaven?

 

[Penumbra]

and how would moksha or nirvana be different than eternal heaven?

Well eternal heavens are generally described as having a body and just kinda chillin' in a paradise for an infinite amount of time.

Moksha and Nirvana are generally described in more vague terms. They are sometimes described as timeless, sometimes not. In Nirvana, one has no body. Sometimes they are described as limitless consciousness. Sometimes it's union with god or becoming one with god (for Moksha), etc.

There are heavens that one can go to in the Buddhist and Hindu cosmological systems but they aren't desirable because there isn't true joy there. They are just temporary reincarnations/rebirths.

-Lyn

 

[839311]

There are heavens that one can go to in the Buddhist and Hindu cosmological systems but they aren't desirable because there isn't true joy there. They are just temporary reincarnations/rebirths.

Well, BOO-HOO for them! I bet their heavens are far more "desirable" than this world. Sign me up!

 

[Penumbra]

Well, BOO-HOO for them! I bet their heavens are far more "desirable" than this world. Sign me up!

Well yeah, but the point is that in this religious cosmology, their karma eventually runs out and they might be reborn here again, or somewhere else.

 

[YmirGF]

Many Neo-pagans do tend to favor eternal reincarnation through an understanding of the cyclical nature of life.

Interestingly, the Pythagorean's suggested the idea of eternal recurrence (which Nietzsche also wrote about) where, if the universe is finite and time is infinite, there will be an endless series of infinite progressions of existences. Eternal return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The supposition suggest that physical existence is the be all and end all of existence. Some of us aren't quite so short-sighted.

Physical reality is a wonderful place, but eventually each will learn its secrets well.

That said, following the idea in the OP, given that time as it is commonly conceived is somewhat erroneous, in a sense, incarnations do go on "forever".

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The supposition suggest that physical existence is the be all and end all of existence. Some of us aren't quite so short-sighted.

Sure. Though some would say that by placing something transcendent beyond the normal mundane existence, we are side-stepping the wonder that's already here--suggesting a short-sightedness in that point of view.

That said, following the idea in the OP, given that time as it is commonly conceived is somewhat erroneous, in a sense, incarnations do go on "forever".

What's your view on time as related to this topic? I agree that our sense of time is somewhat erroneous, though I'm sure folks are tired of hearing my own idea of it. I'm curious about yours.

 

[YmirGF]

Sure. Though some would say that by placing something transcendent beyond the normal mundane existence, we are side-stepping the wonder that's already here--suggesting a short-sightedness in that point of view.

I understand and that normally a big "turn off" for me in regards to many schools of thought. That isn't really what I am meaning though. I am meaning that eventually, after a few million incarnations................ the average entity will glean about as much as it can from physical incarnations and will, quite naturally, begin to explore other equally valid realms of intrigue.

What's your view on time as related to this topic? I agree that our sense of time is somewhat erroneous, though I'm sure folks are tired of hearing my own idea of it. I'm curious about yours.

All time exists simultaneously in an "spacious present" or "now". In that sense, there is no past or future. There is only now. In that sense, incarnations DO go on "forever" in an infinite loop of sorts. The link or connection for each aspect exists in its own perception of the "present moment" of their experience. Now, in that respect, serves as a doorway between aspects, as it is one thing they all have in common in their perspective. I would go as far as saying that in order to "touch" other aspects in their "now", that aspect would also need to be stretching its wings, as it were and seeking out other aspects. You will, for example, never be able to contact or "touch" aspects that are totally focused in their reality, as they will blithely regard your intrusions as that of a phantasm or ghost... In effect, you will not be deemed "real" to them. Such is not the case to those aspects of your identity that have begun to see more of their overall identity and realize there is a bit more to themselves than meets the I (eye).