Ethics, Morals, and Philosophy ... or should I say Life

[ZenMonkey]

That's what they say right? That's life ... What's ethical what's not ethical? Why should I adopt your morals is I enjoy what you're against? Values ... Do you adopt a positive value system or negative value system and why? I enjoy finding balance but it's not always easy, given social conditioning and cultural differences and what not. Anyway, What would you consider an attack on something ethical? I mean what would you find immoral about life itself? For example: Is casual sex immoral? What about showing more skin than not? What about the art of communication ... like if someone said **** ... would you be offended? What about multiple spouses, or a single spouse for that matter? From what object should we base or moral values and ethics? I guess that's the real question.

 

[Sunstone]

Why do you assume values are adopted from outside of you? Is it not the case, they can be discovered within you? Are you not born with at least some values?

 

[ZenMonkey]

Why do you assume values are adopted from outside of you? Is it not the case, they can be discovered within you? Are you not born with at least some values?

That was actually where I was leading ... The object is self. I determine my own moral values and the way I live or choose to live, but then much of that depends on environment too ... circumstances and culture clashes and other variables. But yeah, on a whole we're responsible for what we value and what we don't.

 

[ZenMonkey]

We're born liking and not liking certain things. It's the difference between what we find good and evil and yes, we're born with this understanding being made how we are.

 

[RoaringSilence]

all those 3 are ever evolving, take this for a fact that there are other realms and worlds that co- exist in this universe who live by different values /philosophies etc.. and the three you mentioned are a flux that we create as we evolve.
the real question is what is missing from our lives that we keep trying to fill... if we find the answer to that ..everything comes to a halt within.

all those 3 are important as a conduct for a community or a society.. but unless the inner person is not at peace within ..values mean nothing to that individual.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That's what they say right? That's life ... What's ethical what's not ethical? Why should I adopt your morals is I enjoy what you're against? Values ... Do you adopt a positive value system or negative value system and why? I enjoy finding balance but it's not always easy, given social conditioning and cultural differences and what not. Anyway, What would you consider an attack on something ethical? I mean what would you find immoral about life itself? For example: Is casual sex immoral? What about showing more skin than not? What about the art of communication ... like if someone said **** ... would you be offended? What about multiple spouses, or a single spouse for that matter? From what object should we base or moral values and ethics? I guess that's the real question.

I try to have a positive outlook at like, even in difficult times.
To take the example you provide in the OP, Casual sex is in my understanding very immoral,
I prefer more covered than people showing of to much skin because nakedness is a private thing to me.
Art to me is something that is beautiful, so a lot of "art" today is focused on sex/provoking and I do not see art in it.
I do not use profanity my self, and yes it can be offending if it is used toward me.
To have one spouse is more morally correct than having multiple partners.

Morality to me is

to refrain from taking life.
to refrain from taking that which is not freely given.
to refrain from sexual misconduct.
to refrain from unwise/unskillful speech.
to refrain from intoxication that clouds the mind.

 

[ZenMonkey]

all those 3 are ever evolving, take this for a fact that there are other realms and worlds that co- exist in this universe who live by different values /philosophies etc.. and the three you mentioned are a flux that we create as we evolve.
the real question is what is missing from our lives that we keep trying to fill... if we find the answer to that ..everything comes to a halt within.

all those 3 are important as a conduct for a community or a society.. but unless the inner person is not at peace within ..values mean nothing to that individual.

Self acceptance and even on to being happy and loving who we are. It gets difficult with so many different views of what is and what isn't acceptable. Social norms, cultural expectations, and so on but if we could get past caring what others thought about us and on to loving ourselves and who we are we could make great strides in quality of life ... at least on an individual level. It would qualify as a personal problem to the naysayers , who would then need to follow suit and/or let some **** be (imo). I mean, at one time breast feeding in public was common place, then frowned upon, then back to fighting for the right or at least the right to not be made to feel ashamed for feeding your child in public.

 

[joe1776]

We humans are extremely proud of our ability to reason. That excess of pride has made us devalue intuition so we don't trust our conscience which is comprised of immediate intuitive judgments of moral situations emerging from the unconscious mind. If we are considering an act that is immoral, we will feel the wrongness immediately.

In other words, the same brain function that signals us with pain when we sprain an ankle is employed to signal us of wrongdoing.

Since human acts happen in an almost infinite variety, the ability of conscience to separate the moral from the immoral to give us immediate judgments is extraordinary -- the wisdom necessary to accomplish that is beyond our understanding.

Research over the last 30 years or so is confirming that our moral judgments are intuitive and not reasoned but researchers are still not trusting them for that very reason.

 

[ZenMonkey]

I try to have a positive outlook at like, even in difficult times.
To take the example you provide in the OP, Casual sex is in my understanding very immoral,
I prefer more covered than people showing of to much skin because nakedness is a private thing to me.
Art to me is something that is beautiful, so a lot of "art" today is focused on sex/provoking and I do not see art in it.
I do not use profanity my self, and yes it can be offending if it is used toward me.
To have one spouse is more morally correct than having multiple partners.

Morality to me is

to refrain from taking life.
to refrain from taking that which is not freely given.
to refrain from sexual misconduct.
to refrain from unwise/unskillful speech.
to refrain from intoxication that clouds the mind.

Cool, so at one time I agreed with the one spouse and I still agree with covering skin more than not, I disagree with the language contention but then I'm all about free speech free expression and having the liberty to express onesself in a manner that is easily understood ...with impact. I like staying sober, but enjoy taking the edge off on occasion. I wouldn't take a life unless I felt it necessary, but sexual misconduct, depending on how you're using the phrase, is a personal matter and one I don't try to push or rather I don't think it's my business how many partners or what people do when engaging in such activities. As for things like porn ... If you don't like it, don't view it. It's fairly simple.

In our society, we have a comfort level to attain on a collective, not just individually, so the clothes and taking life and lack of sobriety...I mean I don't enjoy being around sloppy, angry, sappy cry me a river drunks and what not, so I def agree with that. On that same note, no harm no foul so I don't care at the same time ... at least when they're not a social nuisance.

 

[ZenMonkey]

We humans are extremely proud of our ability to reason. That excess of pride has made us devalue intuition so we don't trust our conscience which is comprised of immediate intuitive judgments of moral situations emerging from the unconscious mind. If we are considering an act that is immoral, we will feel the wrongness immediately.

In other words, the same brain function that signals us with pain when we sprain an ankle is employed to signal us of wrongdoing.

Since human acts happen in an almost infinite variety, the ability of conscience to separate the moral from the immoral to give us immediate judgments is extraordinary -- the wisdom necessary to accomplish that is beyond our understanding.

Research over the last 30 years or so is confirming that our moral judgments are intuitive and not reasoned but researchers are still not trusting them for that very reason.

Social norms, cultural norms, how we were raised and what not play a huge role in that department. I wasn't ashamed when I born, yet I was naked. I can't remember ever feeling ashamed when diaper changes came, so by and large the problem rests on judgment of some things by society. Typically a negative judgment leads to a feeling of shame, which then leads to not being happy with self, which then leads to depression, suicide ... so on so forth. In the end, we born naked, we learn language and how to express ourselves, then face monumental challenges by society who deem some things as immoral and unfit for a civil society.

 

[Spirit of Light]

but sexual misconduct, depending on how you're using the phrase.

It means I do not look at other people than my fianceè, And it means my mind is not on other than my fianceè when it comes to private things like sex and flirting.
But sexual misconduct can also mean to not harm others by forcing them into something they do not want( in a sexual way)

 

[ZenMonkey]

It means I do not look at other people than my fianceè, And it means my mind is not on other than my fianceè when it comes to private things like sex and flirting.
But sexual misconduct can also mean to not harm others by forcing them into something they do not want( in a sexual way)

I agree with that completely. So modest clothing on the docket and a will to be with only one and the effort to not entice. I like that. How about those who feel and think differently than you? Like me for example, at one time I agreed with one spouse and up until about 2 years ago. Now, given my past history and life experience and ongoing disastrous relationships, I question why I ever held that view.

 

[leov]

That's what they say right? That's life ... What's ethical what's not ethical? Why should I adopt your morals is I enjoy what you're against? Values ... Do you adopt a positive value system or negative value system and why? I enjoy finding balance but it's not always easy, given social conditioning and cultural differences and what not. Anyway, What would you consider an attack on something ethical? I mean what would you find immoral about life itself? For example: Is casual sex immoral? What about showing more skin than not? What about the art of communication ... like if someone said **** ... would you be offended? What about multiple spouses, or a single spouse for that matter? From what object should we base or moral values and ethics? I guess that's the real question.

I think the Golden Rule covers this. Imo. If your action hurts others it is wrong., e.g. Wrongs may be justified e.g. reasonable self defense. Opinions and thoughts is much more complicated but actions upon opinions can be filtered.

 

[ZenMonkey]

I think the Golden Rule covers this. Imo. If your action hurts others it is wrong., e.g. Wrongs may be justified e.g. reasonable self defense. Opinions and thoughts is much more complicated but actions upon opinions can be filtered.

Of course ... It necessary to act on an opinion about someone or something. Is that what you're suggesting? and wrongs ... can you truly justify a wrong? What if some wrongs or rather what some consider wrongs are in actuality right? For example: You have a family. Your is to protect your family. You're literally forced to kill another to protect them. Some say killing is wrong. Which would be more right ... allowing your entire family to be killed or to kill to protect them? Or is it ... it would have been wrong not to kill to protect your family? Seriously ...

 

[Spirit of Light]

I agree with that completely. So modest clothing on the docket and a will to be with only one and the effort to not entice. I like that. How about those who feel and think differently than you? Like me for example, at one time I agreed with one spouse and up until about 2 years ago. Now, given my past history and life experience and ongoing disastrous relationships, I question why I ever held that view.

I can not judge others for their views and choice in life, I can only speak for me in this matter, even other Buddhists does not see it always the way I do. so to be open to that others see it different then I is something I must be aware of

 

[ZenMonkey]

I can not judge others for their views and choice in life, I can only speak for me in this matter, even other Buddhists does not see it always the way I do. so to be open to that others see it different then I is something I must be aware of

How about judging action when action harms others? That's a biggie ... Say I disagree with what someone does because it makes me feel bad about me ... should that be accepted as valid?

 

[Spirit of Light]

How about judging action when action harms others? That's a biggie ... Say I disagree with what someone does because it makes me feel bad about me ... should that be accepted as valid?

If I could I would tell "them" that what they do or are about to do is wrong, and if they ask why, I would tell them, But of course they are free to listen or not. But if I see they brake the law, I would report them to the police.
But if they attack me for telling them that they do wrong, I will not go into a fight with them. I would back off.
If I see someone attacking others I would probably stop them if I see I would be able to, without harming them physically, or if i could not stop them my self i would call the police

 

[RoaringSilence]

Self acceptance and even on to being happy and loving who we are. It gets difficult with so many different views of what is and what isn't acceptable. Social norms, cultural expectations, and so on but if we could get past caring what others thought about us and on to loving ourselves and who we are we could make great strides in quality of life ... at least on an individual level. It would qualify as a personal problem to the naysayers , who would then need to follow suit and/or let some **** be (imo). I mean, at one time breast feeding in public was common place, then frowned upon, then back to fighting for the right or at least the right to not be made to feel ashamed for feeding your child in public.

There are those who are ever conscious of self conduct , and there are those who live to break rules, rare are those who are self contained and their footprint is like a floating lotus .i ve given up on trying to be the way to be .... and trying to find "that BE" which is ever tranquil.

 

[leov]

How about judging action when action harms others? That's a biggie ... Say I disagree with what someone does because it makes me feel bad about me ... should that be accepted as valid?

things you can only do within 'reach' of your consciousness. we have limited 'reach' in terms if actions, people work and pay taxes to government while their government use taxes to hurt others, what can you do? it is in most cases beyond our 'reach'.

 

[ZenMonkey]

If I could I would tell "them" that what they do or are about to do is wrong, and if they ask why, I would tell them, But of course they are free to listen or not. But if I see they brake the law, I would report them to the police.
But if they attack me for telling them that they do wrong, I will not go into a fight with them. I would back off.
If I see someone attacking others I would probably stop them if I see I would be able to, without harming them physically, or if i could not stop them my self i would call the police

I'm thinking more along the lines of personal decisions and/or lifestyles. Say someone is a stripper and you don't like it because you think they're wrong and it makes you feel bad ... either for them or you or their families or whatever. I'm alluding to coming to terms with who people are and their life choices and instead of judging life choices to rather accept that it's part of life and not your business, particularly when they aren't hurting, harming, or damaging anyone or anything aside from those who might think or view what they do as immoral or wrong. I guess it comes down to this question: Why do we judge others? Here's another one: What good does judging others do?