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Europe's multiculturalist (authoritarians?), trying to make mass immigration mandatory?
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Culture is a composite of all member of a society. So, what culture are you referring to? A past one or a current one?
No doubt pagans were defending their cultures when Christianity came along and displaced them.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Absolutely nothing with people who actually care about it.
In this case Poland wants to defend its culture. It does NOT want Islamists to destroy Polish culture. The EU wants to force Poland (and all EU countries), to accept the mass immigration of Islamists who want to destroy European cultures.
To be clear, Islamists are NOT A RACE. This is not about race. It's about ideas. Islamists promote misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, tribalism, and theocracy.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
What were Poles before they were Christian?
Who said anything about racism? What I see in the video is bigotry.
BTW, Polish Christianity has done a pretty good job promoting misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, tribalism, and theocracy as well over the centuries.
Heyo
Veteran Member
When I'm for immigration, I'm defending my own culture. The Enlightenment and Humanism is one of the greatest achievements of western culture and we have always profited from immigration. Falling into xenophobia would be a step back.
Secret Chief
Degrow!
The Torygraph.
Next.
Next.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
The problem is with equivocating all Muslim migrants with Islamists. It's still bigotry.
I'm reminded of a time in US history where there was anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant nativist movements "defending" their Protestant culture from a Catholic "overthrow". It only resulted in violence against people such as Irish Catholics fleeing abject poverty and famine or German/Polish Catholics fleeing poverty and war. These nativist movements always use the same hyperbole found in your OP. Nativists are bigots, plain and simple. Any excuse or exaggeration will serve a bigot.
JDMS
Academic Workhorse
As someone with a second major in anthropology and religious studies who's spent a significant amount of time actually reading about this subject, it's actually an interesting topic as to what constitutes as the "culture" of a country.
Oftentimes, the individuals within a given border are actually attempting to "protect" an ahistorical caricature of their "culture" rather than actually knowing anything about their history. There have been extreme alterations to public memory in the last few decades with the development of globalization. The concept of "people's Europe" is a relatively modern invention that's meant to defend against it. People are so afraid of losing their culture that they literally invent new traditions and histories that don't reflect reality.
You'd be surprised by how derisive definitions of Europe are.
In certain eras of history, Orthodox Christianity wasn't considered "European enough", and any regions where Orthodox Christianity was prevalent weren't considered part of Europe either. Now, as "Europe" trembles and fears other religions like Islam, suddenly Orthodox Christianity is good enough for them. Strength in numbers.
Not to mention that historical Islamic influences or populations in Europe are entirely ignored. Muslim architecture is forever ingrained in Hispania, and the Tatars are a largely Islamic group that belongs to Eastern Europe.
Not to mention that Europe has been churned up, mixed, and blended together for thousands of years. There's a constant flow of emigration and immigration to and fro European countries and territories, from other areas in Europe, and beyond. There was never, ever a static "culture" to protect in the first place.
Nationalistic ideas about cultures "being destroyed" by "foreign invaders" come from fear more often than fact.
While I believe these issues naturally bring up questions about European, Polish, German, etc. identity, it must be acknowledged that many public assertions and fears are reactionary and ahistorical in nature, and must be inspected as such. There are solutions to be made that aren't solely based in fear of the "other".
Otherwise, these nations may find their cultures changing from the inside as they attempt to fortify themselves.
Oftentimes, the individuals within a given border are actually attempting to "protect" an ahistorical caricature of their "culture" rather than actually knowing anything about their history. There have been extreme alterations to public memory in the last few decades with the development of globalization. The concept of "people's Europe" is a relatively modern invention that's meant to defend against it. People are so afraid of losing their culture that they literally invent new traditions and histories that don't reflect reality.
You'd be surprised by how derisive definitions of Europe are.
In certain eras of history, Orthodox Christianity wasn't considered "European enough", and any regions where Orthodox Christianity was prevalent weren't considered part of Europe either. Now, as "Europe" trembles and fears other religions like Islam, suddenly Orthodox Christianity is good enough for them. Strength in numbers.
Not to mention that historical Islamic influences or populations in Europe are entirely ignored. Muslim architecture is forever ingrained in Hispania, and the Tatars are a largely Islamic group that belongs to Eastern Europe.
Not to mention that Europe has been churned up, mixed, and blended together for thousands of years. There's a constant flow of emigration and immigration to and fro European countries and territories, from other areas in Europe, and beyond. There was never, ever a static "culture" to protect in the first place.
Nationalistic ideas about cultures "being destroyed" by "foreign invaders" come from fear more often than fact.
While I believe these issues naturally bring up questions about European, Polish, German, etc. identity, it must be acknowledged that many public assertions and fears are reactionary and ahistorical in nature, and must be inspected as such. There are solutions to be made that aren't solely based in fear of the "other".
Otherwise, these nations may find their cultures changing from the inside as they attempt to fortify themselves.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Orthodox Christianity was European but it wasn't "Western". For the longest time the divide between "East" and "West" was between Rome and Byzantium/Constantinople.
JDMS
Academic Workhorse
While what you say is true, there was periods in the twentieth century where Western Europe was Europe, and Eastern Europe was "not" in popular imagination. There were times when Russia didn't consider itself European. The Danish often refer to trips to Germany as "a trip to Europe". Isreal often competes in Eurovision. Many Asian populations and Asian anthropologists have entirely different definitions of Europe than what European anthropologists do (I say as someone who studied for part of my degree in anthropology at a Japanese university)...
The list goes on.
There's an entire field devoted to European ethnology and defining what "Europe" is in various manners, so much so that there's another field of study devoted to studying the study of Europe.
It's an intense process. Far more complex than just "The West" and Western Europe and Eastern Europe.
So while you're mostly correct, there's a bit more to it, depending on how you look at it. Are you asking a geography expert? An anthropologist? A normal European citizen? Someone from Eastern Asia? When are you asking the question? 8th century? 20th? 21st?
As I said in my original post, it's a very interesting topic.
And this all ties into my original comment, too, that the idea of "preserving" XYZ "culture" is often an ahistorical pursuit as it ignores the constantly changing tides of Europe and European boundaries.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Yep. Ask those people who want to defend "Western European" culture where that culture came from, they'll name people from Eastern Europe (Greece), Asia and Northern Africa.
JDMS
Academic Workhorse
Couldn't say it better myself.
Secret Chief
Degrow!
I didn't use the word Great Replacement. The UN did.
This document is very clear.
We don't want to be replaced. The more the lounge-loving élites push for that, the more nationalist leaders will be elected in Europe.
Fortunately the East is all nationalistic, already. Poland, Hungary, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Albania, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, and so on.
But accidentally Italian Nationalists nowadays call Moscow The Third Rome, and worship Putin.
I wonder why.
My culture is that I can wear miniskirt, fishnet stockings and high heels and the Government protects my choice to wear these things.
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I speak five European languages: Italian, French, German, Spanish and English. If I become fluent in Russian, I will speak six European languages.
Europe is a concept.
It's a spiritual entity.
And I can promise you that within the European Union, the European awareness is stronger and stronger.
I don't think so.
I believe Americans apply their multiculturalism on Europe.
That's not true, at all.
This is rewriting history. Russia has always been considered part of Europe since the XVI century when the myth of the Third Rome arose. Catherine II was born as a German, Lutheran princess that later became the empress of all Russias, the most powerful ruler of the XVIII century.
Germany and Russia were so politically united that they managed to occupy Poland, and to divy up the cake. That's how Poland disappeared from the map.
From the Fall of the Roman Empire onward. So?
That strengthens the European unity as civilization.
They come from threats. Threats from the fundamentalist countries that have never hidden their agenda.
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Yerda
Veteran Member
The Great Replacement is a nazi conspiracy theory.
This doesn't mention the Great Replacement and is talking about maintaing levels of working age population through immigration. The word replacement refers to making up the shortfall. It would take you about 4 seconds of thinking to work this out.
Nationialism is the cancer that threatens our culture. Not immigrants.