Everybody is an individual Everything is one

[savethedreams]

Biologically speaking from what I have come to conclude, Humans are animals, there is no really main difference between the human species and the animal kingdom we all need air, food, reproduce, etc. The only difference from a human perspective is our brains, and the intelligence to make weapons, technology to destroy the earth, 'make' overpopulation, drama, and many things that are destructive to other (rather the earth or animal/plants) and gave us some gain while still maintaining destruction to us. So from a god standpoint, mainly speaking to those from Abrahamic religions (Islam, Christians, Jews etc)

Don't animals have soul? and if so don't the bible says the soul that is sinning it itself will die? Are animals really the 'lower' 'life form' for lack of a better word compared to US humans?

Because if animals are souls, and biologically there is no difference, and the bible says this and that about souls, then it would naturally include animals as well, if that is the case, and some animals naturally 'sin' according to our standards, wouldn't that throw the entire Bible off, as inaccurate or contradictory?

 

[james2ko]

The bible has a lot to say about this topic. Remember, the bible never contradicts itself (John 10:35) You are right, biologically, animals and humans are basically the same. Yet there is a great chasm between them when it comes to intellect. God created humans in His image (Gen 1:26) but created animals after their own [image] kind (Gen 1:24)

When a human dies, the body decomposes and their thoughts cease (Gen 3:19; Psa 104:29; Job 14:10; Job 17:1; Ecc 3:20; 9:5) Their human spirit, referred to as the "spirit in man" or "spirits of flesh"(Num 16:22; Num 27:16; Job 32:8; Jas 2:26; I Corinthians 2:11;Zec 12:1; Heb 12:9)---different from the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:16)-- cannot function on its own apart from the body (similar to how computer hardware cannot operate without software and vice versa), This "spirit" gives man his intellect/creativity and contains the person's personality and character traits. It will be stored in a type of heavenly file cabinet until one of the resurrections (Psa 146:4; Ecc 12:7; Heb 12:23). Ever seen or heard of a brain dead person in a hospital? Their hardware or body is still working (heart beating, blood circulating, etc) but their software (thinking power) or "spirit in man" has been removed! This "brain dead" analogy is not in scripture, but it hopefully illustrates the teaching.

Contrary to popular belief, man does not have an immortal soul (Eze 18:20) Man is a soul! (Gen 2:7 KJV). If we already had an immortal soul --one that can live independent from the human body ---what need would there be for a resurrection? At the appointed resurrection, (Isa 26:19; Acts 17:31 )this spirit will be reunited with the human body and if they were one of God's elect, God's Holy Spirit will also be reunited.

Like humans, animals are also souls but also have a "spirit",(Ecc 3:21) much different than the spirit in man. The spirit in animals is one which imparts instinct and personality and , akin to firmware, cannot be separated from its body. So when an animal dies, both body and spirit [firmware] simply cease to exist.

Don't animals have soul? and if so don't the bible says the soul that is sinning it itself will die? Are animals really the 'lower' 'life form' for lack of a better word compared to US humans?

I believe the scripture you are referring to here is Eze 18:4,20. The context clearly indicates it is talking about human beings [souls] notice verse 4, "Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine....." Verse 20 also refers to the fathers and sons.

Because if animals are souls, and biologically there is no difference, and the bible says this and that about souls, then it would naturally include animals as well, if that is the case, and some animals naturally 'sin' according to our standards, wouldn't that throw the entire Bible off, as inaccurate or contradictory?

Scripture defines sin as the breaking of God's law. (1 John 3:4 KJV) Humans were given the intellect and reasoning power to understand right from wrong (Job 32:8; 35:11), animals were not (Job 39:13-17) Therefore, God cannot hold animals accountable for sin. The word soul in the Hebrew is "nephesh" which is defined as "breathing creature" referring to both animals and humans. As I pointed out, when animals die, they cease to exist forever. There is no indication of a resurrection for animals. God has a different plan for humans. After being resurrected to physical mortal life and given one genuine opportunity for salvation, unrepentant humans [souls] will ultimately be destroyed on the day of judgment known as the second death (Rev 20:11:15) In the final judgment, the "soul" that sins shall die.
Hope this helps..

 

[savethedreams]

The bible has a lot to say about this topic. Remember, the bible never contradicts itself (John 10:35) You are right, biologically, animals and humans are basically the same. Yet there is a great chasm between them when it comes to intellect. God created humans in His image (Gen 1:26) but created animals after their own [image] kind (Gen 1:24)

When a human dies, the body decomposes and their thoughts cease (Gen 3:19; Psa 104:29; Job 14:10; Job 17:1; Ecc 3:20; 9:5) Their human spirit, referred to as the "spirit in man" or "spirits of flesh"(Num 16:22; Num 27:16; Job 32:8; Jas 2:26; I Corinthians 2:11;Zec 12:1; Heb 12:9)---different from the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:16)-- cannot function on its own apart from the body (similar to how computer hardware cannot operate without software and vice versa), This "spirit" gives man his intellect/creativity and contains the person's personality and character traits. It will be stored in a type of heavenly file cabinet until one of the resurrections (Psa 146:4; Ecc 12:7; Heb 12:23). Ever seen or heard of a brain dead person in a hospital? Their hardware or body is still working (heart beating, blood circulating, etc) but their software (thinking power) or "spirit in man" has been removed! This "brain dead" analogy is not in scripture, but it hopefully illustrates the teaching.

Contrary to popular belief, man does not have an immortal soul (Eze 18:20) Man is a soul! (Gen 2:7 KJV). If we already had an immortal soul --one that can live independent from the human body ---what need would there be for a resurrection? At the appointed resurrection, (Isa 26:19; Acts 17:31 )this spirit will be reunited with the human body and if they were one of God's elect, God's Holy Spirit will also be reunited.

Like humans, animals are also souls but also have a "spirit",(Ecc 3:21) much different than the spirit in man. The spirit in animals is one which imparts instinct and personality and , akin to firmware, cannot be separated from its body. So when an animal dies, both body and spirit [firmware] simply cease to exist.



I believe the scripture you are referring to here is Eze 18:4,20. The context clearly indicates it is talking about human beings [souls] notice verse 4, "Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine....." Verse 20 also refers to the fathers and sons.



Scripture defines sin as the breaking of God's law. (1 John 3:4 KJV) Humans were given the intellect and reasoning power to understand right from wrong (Job 32:8; 35:11), animals were not (Job 39:13-17) Therefore, God cannot hold animals accountable for sin. The word soul in the Hebrew is "nephesh" which is defined as "breathing creature" referring to both animals and humans. As I pointed out, when animals die, they cease to exist forever. There is no indication of a resurrection for animals. God has a different plan for humans. After being resurrected to physical mortal life and given one genuine opportunity for salvation, unrepentant humans [souls] will ultimately be destroyed on the day of judgment known as the second death (Rev 20:11:15) This final judgment is what Eze 18:4,20 is referring to.

Hope this helps..

So would it be better to live life as a human or an animal or plant and not suffer judgement?

 

[james2ko]

So would it be better to live life as a human or an animal or plant and not suffer judgement?

Scripture indicates, everything on the earth will eventually be destroyed (2 Pet 3:10) and renovated (Rev 21:1). The only ones left will be former human beings who overcame their sinful nature whom God has rewarded eternal life (1 Cor 15:50). They will have super natural, God like, powers (Php 3:21; Psa 17:15; 1 Jn 3:2; 1 Co 15:49) and inherit all things [the universe] !!! (Rom 8:18-22; Rev 21:7)

I would most certainly want to be human over a cat or a rose

 

[savethedreams]

Scripture indicates, everything on the earth will eventually be destroyed (2 Pet 3:10) and renovated (Rev 21:1). The only ones left will be former human beings who overcame their sinful nature whom God has rewarded eternal life (1 Cor 15:50). They will have super natural, God like, powers (Php 3:21; Psa 17:15; 1 Jn 3:2; 1 Co 15:49) and inherit all things [the universe] !!! (Rom 8:18-22; Rev 21:7)

I would most certainly want to be human over a cat or a rose

Wow exactly what I was saying. So based on that information. Could it be safe to say that "God" is evil and animal Cruelity for killing animals for no reason. Or one can say "God" kills innocent life forms?

Wow! Obey his rules or suffer. Glad my mom is not like that and allows me to be happy doing me and harming no one.

So really, god would look a my cat and say I know your innocent and u don't sin you have to die. I wonder what humans will think hearing animals and trees burn and my cat scream for his life.

 

[james2ko]

Wow exactly what I was saying. So based on that information. Could it be safe to say that "God" is evil and animal Cruelity for killing animals for no reason. Or one can say "God" kills innocent life forms?

Animal rights is a concept that stems from an argument that says a human is morally the same as any other animal. But is that true? Who legitimately decides the moral value of a person or an animal? The One who created them, of course. Animals are neither innocent or guilty, as far as God is concerned. God placed them here to help and serve man's needs. In God's eyes, they have no rights. Although, He commands us to treat the ones under our care with respect (Pro 12:10).

Wow exactly what I was saying. So based on that information. Could it be safe to say that "God" is evil and animal Cruelity for killing animals for no reason. Or one can say "God" kills innocent life forms?

God is not purging the earth in vain. As I stated, He is renovating it to make it His dwelling place (Rev 21:3). Does this make God an evil killer? That would be like me calling you a killer because you are killing innocent, essential microbes---which contribute to our nitrogen filled atmosphere and affect our weather---whenever you mop the floor, vacuum the carpet, dust your furniture. You have the right and authority to clean your house ....God has the same right and authority to clean His.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Animals are neither innocent or guilty, as far as God is concerned. God placed them here to help and serve man's needs. In God's eyes, they have no rights. Although, He commands us to treat the ones under our care with respect (Pro 12:10).

(emphasis mine)

so kinda like the other helper gave to man, women. ?
but i'm sure you don't contest that women have souls, do you?

 

[james2ko]

so kinda like the other helper gave to man, women. ?
but i'm sure you don't contest that women have souls, do you?

Thanks for the inquiry.

God does not consider animals and human beings on the same moral plane. Men and women have different roles. They are essential partners who need each other. Women share the same destiny and biological makeup (pun fully intended) as men, which I described in post #2 on this thread.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Thanks for the inquiry.

God does not consider animals and human beings on the same moral plane. Men and women have different roles. They are essential partners who need each other. Women share the same destiny and biological makeup (pun fully intended) as men, which I described in post #2 on this thread.

has the church always recognized that women and men share the same destiny?
if not, could it be possible that in the future the interpretation of scripture could include that since other animals and human animals do share a considerable amount of biological makeup that perhaps our destinies could be shared as well?

 

[james2ko]

has the church always recognized that women and men share the same destiny?

Yes. God's true church has...

could it be possible that in the future the interpretation of scripture could include that since other animals and human animals do share a considerable amount of biological makeup that perhaps our destinies could be shared as well?

If you show me where it says this in scripture, I may consider it.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

If you show me where it says this in scripture, I may consider it.

scripture has been used to distance the destinies of men and women. so since you said there are not contradictions in scripture, then what you're saying is that these scriptures must have been misinterpreted by those who would use it to separate men and women. (we'll leave post-pauline inclusion out of this for now). so, perhaps it's simply yet another misinterpretation of scripture to assume that non-human animals and human-animals don't share the same spiritual destiny.

or maybe god just never saw this one coming.

 

[james2ko]

scripture has been used to distance the destinies of men and women

Who says?

so, perhaps it's simply yet another misinterpretation of scripture

Perhaps??? That word denotes uncertainty. So your implying scripture could perhaps not be misinterpreted. All of the physical evidence I've looked at has convinced me that the bible, in its original languages, is infallible.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

as for who says, i'd simply point to the book in which we're referring.

and by the way, i used the word 'perhaps' to be kind.

All of the physical evidence I've looked at has convinced me that the bible, in its original languages, is infallible.

then let's allow you to get back to your inquiry, didn't mean to interrupt you.

 

[RomCat]

I believe there is a unbridgeable chasm
between human beings and animals.
Jesus died on the cross to save us; not
our pet dogs and cats.

 

[savethedreams]

I believe there is a unbridgeable chasm
between human beings and animals.
Jesus died on the cross to save us; not
our pet dogs and cats.

Why? seems so unfair for my pet Cat, Jesus is mean to him! He didn't do nothing..

 

[james2ko]

as for who says, i'd simply point to the book in which we're referring.

I have presented my evidence, based on the same book ..........I'm still waiting for yours...

 

[tomato1236]

Biologically speaking from what I have come to conclude, Humans are animals, there is no really main difference between the human species and the animal kingdom we all need air, food, reproduce, etc. The only difference from a human perspective is our brains, and the intelligence to make weapons, technology to destroy the earth, 'make' overpopulation, drama, and many things that are destructive to other (rather the earth or animal/plants) and gave us some gain while still maintaining destruction to us. So from a god standpoint, mainly speaking to those from Abrahamic religions (Islam, Christians, Jews etc)

Don't animals have soul? and if so don't the bible says the soul that is sinning it itself will die? Are animals really the 'lower' 'life form' for lack of a better word compared to US humans?

Because if animals are souls, and biologically there is no difference, and the bible says this and that about souls, then it would naturally include animals as well, if that is the case, and some animals naturally 'sin' according to our standards, wouldn't that throw the entire Bible off, as inaccurate or contradictory?

I disagree with you. Not just about this, but in general.

 

[savethedreams]

I disagree with you. Not just about this, but in general.

What do you disagree, on I'm open to all ears man. However, I can' say 'i'm better then my cat' that selfish, and I have choose to obtain the degree of non selfishness.

 

[tomato1236]

What do you disagree, on I'm open to all ears man. However, I can' say 'i'm better then my cat' that selfish, and I have choose to obtain the degree of non selfishness.

Hmmm. I disagree.

 

[no-body]

Don't forget: Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's infinite love.