Everyone worships

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's true per Arabic language. Atheists overcomplicate the definition and English definitions often are too complicated. For example the definition of religion in English, way too complex. Worship is what we value the most. If there is no ultimate Creator that is the One God, then there are multiple things we would value the most, potentially and most likely, ourselves.

I will grant that it is possible to think things in one language that can't be expressed in another. However, I disagree the rest of your post, for the simple reason that you say "we" instead of "I." Once again, neither you nor @ElishaElijah can speak for anyone other than yourselves in matters of what you "value the most." Even more importantly, what any one of us values "the most" changes from moment to moment, varying with our current circumstance and frame mind.

Try this "thought experiment." You have a wife and a child. Which do you "value the most?" I mean, if you were forced to choose (it's a thought experiment, after all) which would you sacrifice?

Frankly, I think most sane people would be very hard-put to answer that question, and in my own opinion there is only one correct answer: "Neither! They are equally important."

Now let's change it up a bit -- let's give your wife cancer, with maybe a year to live. Same question.

 

[Revoltingest]

If English word was coherent, the conclusions of a religion class on how to define "religion" would not be so confusing and the conclusion of the professor teaching it would not be "there is no coherent definition without problems at the end".

There's been attempts, but there is no coherent universal definition of religion in the west. All of them from what I recall have holes.

This is what happens when you overcomplicate such a simple usage of a term.

I'm uncomplicating things
buy using standard modern
English.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Once again, neither you nor @ElishaElijah can speak for anyone other than yourselves in matters of what you "value the most."

That’s true but let me see the history on your phone and computer, see where you spend your time and money and I can get a good idea.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's a crock of assumption

Breathing motivates me. OH mighty breath of life, thank god I dont have to worship anything to be alive an appreciate each moment.

You just gave thanks to god…

 

[Link]

I will grant that it is possible to think things in one language that can't be expressed in another. However, I disagree the rest of your post, for the simple reason that you say "we" instead of "I." Once again, neither you nor @ElishaElijah can speak for anyone other than yourselves in matters of what you "value the most." Even more importantly, what any one of us values "the most" changes from moment to moment, varying with our current circumstance and frame mind.

Try this "thought experiment." You have a wife and a child. Which do you "value the most?" I mean, if you were forced to choose (it's a thought experiment, after all) which would you sacrifice?

Frankly, I think most sane people would be very hard-put to answer that question, and in my own opinion there is only one correct answer: "Neither! They are equally important."

Now let's change it up a bit -- let's give your wife cancer, with maybe a year to live. Same question.

Highest valuing is a relative thing. As I said, if there is no highest being way above others, it would be would that we value many things at the highest. I'm not giving the narrow definition it has to be the #1. There can a #1 or not, but there is at least one thing we value that high. It can be other humans we value at the highest degree of our relatively scale.

In fact, Imams (a) talk about making our intentions for God and not to show off our deeds, because they say if your intention behind actions is to show off actions, you are making others into gods.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's a crock of assumption

Breathing motivates me. OH mighty breath of life, thank god I dont have to worship anything to be alive an appreciate each moment.

You just gave thanks to god…

 

[Link]

I'm uncomplicating things
buy using standard modern
English.

It makes it very complicated and confuses everyone about what the word worship means. I was confused and thought it was a special word, till, I sought clarification in Quran and hadiths. Then I realized it's just a form taqdir (valuing), but higher, it's a form tathim (deeming great) which includes taqdir, and furthermore it's exalting which includes deeming great and finally it has to be that the Creator is given an exaltation that all pale to, so it's God.

But if you make a word just for God and it has no relationship to other words, and no build up, we don't know what it means at all.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That’s true but let me see the history on your phone and computer, see where you spend your time and money and I can get a good idea.

I seriously doubt it. I rarely use my phone at all, almost never to visit the internet. My computer is mostly used for work, and a little bit for RF, news, research. I have an e-Reader, with hundreds of books covering every subject under heaven. The only real money I spend now is for theatre (of all kinds, plays modern and classical, opera, ballet). And when I'm not entertaining myself with those, I remember that I'm old and running out of time to learn everything there is to learn, and I buckle down and learn some more.

Then, of course, there's my new family. As an orphan, I knew nobody in my family until I was 70 years old and joined Ancestry -- and now I've discovered I have 16 half-brothers and sisters, hundreds of nieces/nephews and great and great-great nieces and nephews, and ancestors I can now trace back 8 generations. This is interesting, but even in all of that, there is nothing you could say I "worship."

But what you can't even begin to see is that, even if I did somehow "value" all of those things, I don't worship them -- and the amount of "value" I place on any of them changes from moment to moment. That is because I accept all of that and more as nothing more than just parts of what it is to live my life, for as long as I'm going to live it. From moment to moment, depending on my mood or situation, I can walk away from any and all of it. In that sense, none of it can be said to be things I really "value," let alone "worship."

 

[Revoltingest]

It makes it very complicated and confuses everyone about what the word worship means.

"Worship" has multiple meanings depending upon context.
To worship a god is one.
To worship money is a metaphor that means to value exceedingly.
Translating from a word in the Koran into English wont be a perfect
match. It's best to deal with concepts in modern English without
adding non-standard usages.

 

[Kfox]

People worship whatever they give their lives to, time, attention, money, love and adoration to.

I do that for my family, but that doesn't mean I worship my family. Do you worship your family?

 

[ElishaElijah]

I do that for my family, but that doesn't mean I worship my family. Do you worship your family?

I gave myself to the Lord first, family second, they have the same priorities. So not necessarily but your family can be an idol.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I seriously doubt it. I rarely use my phone at all, almost never to visit the internet. My computer is mostly used for work, and a little bit for RF, news, research. I have an e-Reader, with hundreds of books covering every subject under heaven. The only real money I spend now is for theatre (of all kinds, plays modern and classical, opera, ballet). And when I'm not entertaining myself with those, I remember that I'm old and running out of time to learn everything there is to learn, and I buckle down and learn some more.

Then, of course, there's my new family. As an orphan, I knew nobody in my family until I was 70 years old and joined Ancestry -- and now I've discovered I have 16 half-brothers and sisters, hundreds of nieces/nephews and great and great-great nieces and nephews, and ancestors I can now trace back 8 generations. This is interesting, but even in all of that, there is nothing you could say I "worship."

But what you can't even begin to see is that, even if I did somehow "value" all of those things, I don't worship them -- and the amount of "value" I place on any of them changes from moment to moment. That is because I accept all of that and more as nothing more than just parts of what it is to live my life, for as long as I'm going to live it. From moment to moment, depending on my mood or situation, I can walk away from any and all of it. In that sense, none of it can be said to be things I really "value," let alone "worship."

I just want to say how happy I am for you to have connected with your family! I think that is one of the best stories I heard all day!

 

[Revoltingest]

I seriously doubt it. I rarely use my phone at all, almost never to visit the internet. My computer is mostly used for work, and a little bit for RF, news, research. I have an e-Reader, with hundreds of books covering every subject under heaven. The only real money I spend now is for theatre (of all kinds, plays modern and classical, opera, ballet). And when I'm not entertaining myself with those, I remember that I'm old and running out of time to learn everything there is to learn, and I buckle down and learn some more.

Then, of course, there's my new family. As an orphan, I knew nobody in my family until I was 70 years old and joined Ancestry -- and now I've discovered I have 16 half-brothers and sisters, hundreds of nieces/nephews and great and great-great nieces and nephews, and ancestors I can now trace back 8 generations. This is interesting, but even in all of that, there is nothing you could say I "worship."

But what you can't even begin to see is that, even if I did somehow "value" all of those things, I don't worship them -- and the amount of "value" I place on any of them changes from moment to moment. That is because I accept all of that and more as nothing more than just parts of what it is to live my life, for as long as I'm going to live it. From moment to moment, depending on my mood or situation, I can walk away from any and all of it. In that sense, none of it can be said to be things I really "value," let alone "worship."

I too use ancestry.com. By never using it, I don't
discover any long lost or unknown relatives.
It's wonderful limiting family to the ones not
shunned.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I too use ancestry.com. By never using it, I don't
discover any long lost or unknown relatives.
It's wonderful limiting family to the ones not
shunned.

Well, I think we come at it from different angles! My father never saw my face, even as an infant. I didn't even know his name. I didn't know my maternal grandmother's name, though she was who I loved until she died when I was 4 (I remember that!). I had hints and suggestions and vague memories that I couldn't put together. Now I can.

Will I ever get close enough to really "feel like family" with these people? Honestly, I don't think so. But it's nice to at least try to like them, and to know they're at least trying to like me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, I think we come at it from different angles! My father never saw my face, even as an infant. I didn't even know his name. I didn't know my maternal grandmother's name, though she was who I loved until she died when I was 4 (I remember that!). I had hints and suggestions and vague memories that I couldn't put together. Now I can.

Will I ever get close enough to really "feel like family" with these people? Honestly, I don't think so. But it's nice to at least try to like them, and to know they're at least trying to like me.

Family...
You want more.
I want less.
On average, we have just the right amount.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm not an academic.
Just a simple groundskeeper.

Good for you. I sure wish you'd come and maintain my grounds. There are so many trees now that I cannot even see the ground anymore.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Everyone does worship:
Worship doesn’t have to be the exact act of bowing down to the ground or a song it is a lifestyle of what motivates you in life, what you give your life, money, love and adoration to.

I definitely don't do any of that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Good for you. I sure wish you'd come and maintain my grounds. There are so many trees now that I cannot even see the ground anymore.

My own trees are demanding so much work.
(Winter's heavy wet snow was brutal.)

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Family...
You want more.
I want less.
On average, we have just the right amount.

You know, I'm not at all sure that I "want more." It's very, very hard for me to even assess how much my interest is mere intellectual (or historical) curiousity and how much is wanting family. Frankly, I lean somewhat strongly towards the former. It has been an adventure -- confusing, emotionally fraught, terrifying, disappointing (sometimes) -- out of which I remain mostly ambivalent.

 

[Trailblazer]

My own trees are demanding so much work.

That's okay. I finally found a handyman who does everything so he also trims and cuts down trees.
I call him the Handyman from Heaven.
Now I don't have to get married again after all.