Everyone worships

[Revoltingest]

You know, I'm not at all sure that I "want more." It's very, very hard for me to even assess how much my interest is mere intellectual (or historical) curiousity and how much is wanting family. Frankly, I lean somewhat strongly towards the former. It has been an adventure -- confusing, emotionally fraught, terrifying, disappointing (sometimes) -- out of which I remain mostly ambivalent.

Did any of them sue you?
If not, then you've done well.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I definitely don't do any of that.

Just need to look at your profiles on here and that says a lot right there.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's okay. I finally found a handyman who does everything so he also trims and cuts down trees.
I call him the Handyman from Heaven.
Now I don't have to get married again after all.

That'll avoid a lot of grief.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have found this to be true in our day and time, sometimes worded differently but people worship the One True God or something else. May be something tangible, themselves, objects but we were made to worship. People are no different than these philosophers.

That is true in a sense if you consider loving these things worshiping them, but that isn't what worship means

worship
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

what does worship mean - Google Search

www.google.com

I love my cats but I do not worship them.

I believe that most people love material things more than God, which is rather sad.

 

[Trailblazer]

That'll avoid a lot of grief.

It may or may not, I just go with the flow.

 

[Dao Hao Now]

It's what you value the most. For example, if it's your caprice that navigates your life and you value that above all else, the Quran says such people have take their caprice as a god.

I value many things.
I worship nothing.

Since your definition of “worship” is based on teachings in the Quran, and you view the Quran as an authoritative source, that’s understandable that you might view “worship” in that light, at least within the context of the Quran.
However, surely you also understand that the majority of the world does not follow the teachings of the Quran, nor recognize it as an authoritative source, nor are they compelled to accept the teachings of the Quran as the arbitrator of definitions that they use.
Thus attempting to impose the Quran’s definition of worship is futile where the majority of the world is concerned.
I for one, do not recognize it as a valid use of the word.
I question whether you could be successful in imposing it on those that do accept the Quran as an authoritative source.

Since the purpose of language is to impart an idea between people, and words are a part of language……
Wouldn’t it cause less confusion to use words that are more universally accepted as that idea, as opposed to attempting to impose a meaning that those persons you are attempting to impart the idea to are not likely to recognize as the idea you are attempting to impart?

Semantics is half the battle between truth and falsehood.

Nice deepity.
In my experience, semantics are often used in an attempt to defend falsehoods against the truth.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just need to look at your profiles on here and that says a lot right there.

Except I don't actually worship anything.

 

[1213]

I have found this to be true in our day and time, sometimes worded differently but people worship the One True God or something else. May be something tangible, themselves, objects but we were made to worship. People are no different than these philosophers.

I think Bob Dylan says it well in his song Gotta Serve Somebody. And I think the word "serve" is better in this case, because the word "worship" leads easily to too complicated ideas. In any case, I think everyone serves somebody with their actions and words.

For example liars serve the father of lies and those who love as told in the Bible, serve the Bible God.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I think Bob Dylan says it well in his song Gotta Serve Somebody.

That's from Dylan's "Jesus freak" days. He began writing religiously themed music, which is a nice illustration of how the Christian mindset affects thought. Compare that with this from Desolation Row written over a decade before his religious experience:

Ophelia, she's 'neath the window, for her I feel so afraid
On her twenty-second birthday she already is an old maid
To her, death is quite romantic she wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion, her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peeking into Desolation Row

This is a depressing portrait of a zealously religion Christian. "her eyes are fixed on Noah's great rainbow." Isn't that how @ElishaElijah defined worship. Isn't that what he means by, "My love for Jesus Christ is above anything or anyone else" and "I gave myself to the Lord first, family second."

That's a mindset I once shared with other zealous Christians, but have since shed. It's cardinal characteristic is an attitude of submission and in substituting the perceived will of a deity for one's own values, methods, behaviors, and agenda.

The Enlightenment represents a transformation from the religious thinking of the Middle Ages, which facilitated kings, who piggy-backed onto that and presented themselves as gods of a sort, chosen by god for the subject to submit to and extol as great and mighty. We see this in the use of words like king and lord applied to each. God is king of kings and the men of high station were lords of their manor or realm.

Here's a bit of that Enlightenment thinking linking the submission to and worship of gods and kings and saying goodby to both: "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -Diderot

One consequence of the transformation from subject with no rights expected to submit to and worship a king to an autonomous citizen with guaranteed rights was shedding that mindset, and with it, worship. The modern free citizen doesn't worship. He outgrown that. The atheistic humanist living in a modern secular democracy has no god or king. He alone has authority over his life and finds the idea of worship off-putting and undignified.

Everyone does worship: Worship doesn’t have to be the exact act of bowing down to the ground or a song it is a lifestyle of what motivates you in life, what you give your life, money, love and adoration to.

You render the word meaningless in your effort to try to categorize everybody under that rubric. I prefer to call the kind of thing you describe yourself doing as worship and find other language for the kind of thinking I just described in the atheistic, autonomous, free citizen.

So why do the religious try to apply their language to the irreligious? Why do many like to call all worldviews religions and all attitudes about what is valuable worshiping? Why is all belief called faith to such people? Why do you want to call my attitude worship? I can think of only a few possible reasons, and neither is flattering to the believer. One involves a poverty of imagination, another insecurity ("you're no better than me"), and a third mean-spiritedness (the hope of offending). I suspect that it's a combination of these.

For someone else they would have to answer that for themselves, offer an alternative if you don’t. Are you number 1 above everything else

Yes, I am, as I explained above using words like free and autonomous, and I understand what that answer means to a zealous Christian having been one. How I use that power and authority is different from what the zealot understands. I use it to attempt to live an upright life, make a difference, and experience satisfaction, which for many if not most including me means having constructive relationships and sharing and loving. This is very different from the cartoonish depiction of people who live without gods as hedonistic, immoral, and undisciplined - rebellious, defiant people who consider themselves gods.

I gave myself to the Lord first, family second, they have the same priorities. So not necessarily but your family can be an idol.

Here's more of that attempt to define liberated people using that religious mindset. Now, what we value are idols, which is a very negative term in Christianity. I guess you would call my family an idol, since it comes first in my life. But that's because you likely disapprove of the choice to un-"give myself to the Lord" and promote family back to first - its rightful position in my estimation. And aren't you making this god you believe in an idol? Not as you use the word. Anything else which is highly esteemed is an idol except gods, but if the word is to retain its negative connotation, then it applies here, as I consider that kind of thinking undesirable in myself and in others.

 

[ElishaElijah]

This is very different from the cartoonish depiction of people who live without gods as hedonistic, immoral, and undisciplined - rebellious, defiant people who consider themselves gods.

Sorry to say this is a false concept of how I live, being born again and walking in the the Spirit has allowed me to live an unselfish life and agape people like Jesus Christ, to deny fleshly lusts and live a Holy life.

”I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.“
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬-‭26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Sorry to say this is a false concept of how I live, being born again and walking in the the Spirit has allowed me to live an unselfish life and agape people like Jesus Christ, to deny fleshly lusts and live a Holy life.

I think you misunderstood. The cartoonish depiction which you quoted above is how many of the faithful view atheists, not a "concept of how [you] live, being born again and walking in the Spirit."

Also, just as you see me differently than I see myself, the reverse is true as well. I don't respect religiosity like you do. Faith is not a virtue, nor is piety. The avoidance of pleasure is also not a virtue.

You would likely call much of my life selfish ambition, but I call it living life fully, and it didn't involve "uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery" although it did bring me to a place of peace and joy long ago (after a few drunken revelries and some fornication in my youth), where I have remained since.

And I still enjoy the "pleasures of the flesh," like a good meal with a mango or passion fruit margarita, or air conditioning in summer.

 

[1213]

That's from Dylan's "Jesus freak" days. He began writing religiously themed music,

But can you say his idea is wrong? I think also you serve somebody, if not consciously, then unconsciously. I recommend to be conscious of your actions and what you serve.

Here's a bit of that Enlightenment thinking linking the submission to and worship of gods and kings and saying goodby to both: "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -Diderot

And you take that simplistic idea seriously? I recommend continuing thinking.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I think you misunderstood. The cartoonish depiction which you quoted above is how many of the faithful view atheists, not a "concept of how [you] live, being born again and walking in the Spirit."

Also, just as you see me differently than I see myself, the reverse is true as well. I don't respect religiosity like you do. Faith is not a virtue, nor is piety. The avoidance of pleasure is also not a virtue.

You would likely call much of my life selfish ambition, but I call it living life fully, and it didn't involve "uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery" although it did bring me to a place of peace and joy long ago (after a few drunken revelries and some fornication in my youth), where I have remained since.

And I still enjoy the "pleasures of the flesh," like a good meal with a mango or passion fruit margarita, or air conditioning in summer.

Thanks for clarifying although I don’t see what I posted as cartoonish.
I think you misunderstand what it means to walk in the Spirit compared to walking in the flesh.
Walking in the Spirit is allowing God to satisfy your desires and not be ruled by your fleshy passions, fleshly passions and emotions drive most people and you can see that in advertising.
The word for sorcery or witchcraft is pharmekia/drugs, if you look at some ABC stores they say “spirits” as well, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, manipulation, control of people are also witchcraft, doesn’t have to be palm reading, horoscopes, mediums, dream catchers, crystals or things like that. All this is idolatry.
The point of the post was not for me to evaluate people, more for self reflection, but yes we were made to worship and we all do whether we discern that or are deceived. It does come out though when you are put in situations where things don’t go your way, when times are tough, these are the times I find out where I really am as a person, where I place my trust or my worship. Where does my help come from? As for me, my help comes from the Lord, He directs my steps, He also brings people into my life to help or sends me to help someone else.