Everything's Fine.

[dust1n]

This is today...

"WASHINGTON — In the Obama administration’s last days, some White House officials scrambled to spread information about Russian efforts to undermine the presidential election — and about possible contacts between associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump and Russians — across the government. Former American officials say they had two aims: to ensure that such meddling isn’t duplicated in future American or European elections, and to leave a clear trail of intelligence for government investigators.

American allies, including the British and the Dutch, had provided information describing meetings in European cities between Russian officials — and others close to Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin — and associates of President-elect Trump, according to three former American officials who requested anonymity in discussing classified intelligence. Separately, American intelligence agencies had intercepted communications of Russian officials, some of them within the Kremlin, discussing contacts with Trump associates."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/01/us/politics/obama-trump-russia-election-hacking.html

"The Pentagon says Navy SEALs scooped up laptops, hard drives and cell phones in last month's Yemen raid, but multiple U.S. officials told NBC News that none of the intelligence gleaned from the operation so far has proven actionable or vital — contrary to what President Trump said in his speech to Congress Tuesday.

In a dramatic moment before a joint session of Congress, Trump introduced Carryn Owens, the widow of Senior Chief William "Ryan" Owens, the SEAL who lost his life in the Jan. 29 operation. Tears streamed down the widow's face as the president praised her husband.

"I just spoke to General (James) Mattis," Trump said, referring to his defense secretary, "who reconfirmed that, and I quote, 'Ryan was a part of a highly successful raid that generated large amounts of vital intelligence that will lead to many more victories in the future against our enemies.'"

Officials: Despite Trump claim, still no actionable intel from raid

But more importantly:

Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) spoke twice last year with Russia’s ambassador to the United States, Justice Department officials said, encounters he did not disclose when asked about possible contacts between members of President Trump’s campaign and representatives of Moscow during Sessions’s confirmation hearing to become attorney general.

One of the meetings was a private conversation between Sessions and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak that took place in September in the senator’s office, at the height of what U.S. intelligence officials say was a Russian cyber campaign to upend the U.S. presidential race.

The previously undisclosed discussions could fuel new congressional calls for the appointment of a special counsel to investigate Russia’s alleged role in the 2016 presidential election. As attorney general, Sessions oversees the Justice Department and the FBI, which have been leading investigations into Russian meddling and any links to Trump’s associates. He has so far resisted calls to recuse himself.

Sessions met with Russian envoy twice last year, encounters he later did not disclose

I.E. The attorney general committed something that vaguely resembles perjury.

 

[Sunstone]

I.E. The attorney general committed something that vaguely resembles perjury.

Vaguely? He told an explicit, unambiguous lie while under oath during his confirmation hearing on January 10th of this year. That's pretty much the very definition of perjury.

 

[Stevicus]

It's hard to know just how much foreign meddling there might be in the electoral process or in the US government. I would think that most of the senior officials in our government have had extensive foreign travel and contacts, so just being friends with a foreigner or having a meeting with a foreign official doesn't necessarily mean anything illicit is going on. But by the same token, there have also been those who have expressed their concerns over growing foreign influence in the US government and power structure - even long before the present concerns about Russia ever came up.

If the US government and electoral process are vulnerable to this kind of external manipulation and influence, then that's what should be addressed. There is also some irony in that Trump is often painted as "xenophobic" by the same people howling that "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!"

 

[Quetzal]

Vaguely? He told an explicit, unambiguous lie while under oath during his confirmation hearing on January 10th of this year. That's pretty much the very definition of perjury.

The question is this: will there be consequence?

 

[icehorse]

I *hope* the Dems will persist in this investigation, and of course if they do the GOP will whine about it, and ultimately he'll dodge the bullet because of some technicality, and the corruption will become even more evident, and the debate will be red-herring-ed.

 

[Quetzal]

It is time for him to resign. He lied under oath and any repub who called for Clinton's impeachment should uphold that same standard to Sessions.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is time for him to resign. He lied under oath and any repub who called for Clinton's impeachment should uphold that same standard to Sessions.

I'd prefer that he keep his job, but be investigated.
The question.....do you trust him to investigate himself?

 

[Quetzal]

I'd prefer that he keep his job, but be investigated.
The question.....do you trust him to investigate himself?

My Senators are already beginning that process and my representative has heard what I have to say. I would prefer to have staffers who don't lie under oath. You know, that whole perjury thing. Wouldn't you?

 

[Revoltingest]

My Senators are already beginning that process and my representative has heard what I have to say. I would prefer to have staffers who don't lie under oath. You know, that whole perjury thing. Wouldn't you?

If it's good enuf for Bill Clinton, it's good enuf for Sessions, eh?
Joking aside, perjury law is complicated, so an investigation would be useful.

 

[metis]

It is time for him to resign. He lied under oath and any repub who called for Clinton's impeachment should uphold that same standard to Sessions.

And remember how many Benghazi investigations the Republicans called for and conducted.

But like with Watergate, whereas it took a while for Nixon's complicity with the cover-up to surface, are we seeing deja vu all over again? I don't know, but I have to admit that with all of the defending by Trump of his bromance with Putin, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

This is serious stuff, so an independent investigation needs to be called, and both many Democrats and Republicans are already on board with this. If the Trump administration has nothing to hide, then they also should be aboard.

 

[Quetzal]

If it's good enuf for Bill Clinton, it's good enuf for Sessions, eh?
Joking aside, perjury law is complicated, so an investigation would be useful.

Didn't answer my question! You are under oath sir! I call for your resignation! #impeachRevolt

 

[Revoltingest]

Didn't answer my question! You are under oath sir! I call for your resignation! #impeachRevolt

Uh oh......something tells me this won't end here.

 

[dust1n]

Vaguely? He told an explicit, unambiguous lie while under oath during his confirmation hearing on January 10th of this year. That's pretty much the very definition of perjury.

I'm pretty sure the out for that will always been the proof of intention, why might be harder to prove. I also don't really no what kind of intel they are working with in the Faux House Investigative Committees, and in various branches of military/security apparatuses.

But I imagine as long as he maintains a, "I can't recall" stance, then more and more physical evidence is necessary... recording of the phone calls, for instance.

 

[Stevicus]

And remember how many Benghazi investigations the Republicans called for and conducted.

But like with Watergate, whereas it took a while for Nixon's complicity with the cover-up to surface, are we seeing deja vu all over again? I don't know, but I have to admit that with all of the defending by Trump of his bromance with Putin, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

This is serious stuff, so an independent investigation needs to be called, and both many Democrats and Republicans are already on board with this. If the Trump administration has nothing to hide, then they also should be aboard.

I agree that there should be an investigation. If everything is above board, then no one should have anything to hide.

I can't really say much about Trump's bromance with Putin, nor am I certain just how much the Russians might have interfered with the election.

I do happen to think that we'd be far better off having a friendly relationship with Russia rather than an antagonistic one. I've always thought that, long before any of this.

All I can say is that I don't want another Cold War with Russia, and I certainly don't want a hot war with Russia either. Why some people seem hellbent on wanting to rekindle the enmities of the old days, I just can't understand. If we tried to look at things from their point of view, there'd be a lot fewer misunderstandings. In any case, it's a far more favorable situation that Trump and Putin have a "bromance" rather than become mortal enemies. That would be much worse.

 

[metis]

I do happen to think that we'd be far better off having a friendly relationship with Russia rather than an antagonistic one.

Agreed.

In any case, it's a far more favorable situation that Trump and Putin have a "bromance" rather than become mortal enemies. That would be much worse.

Ditto again, but we also have to remember that the Russian actions have shown that they are looking at this differently, namely the invasion of Crimea, ramping up hostilities in the Ukraine, close fly-bys with our ships, hacking into out political affairs that they're also doing with the European democracies, etc.

This is very serious stuff that they're doing, and I don't think there's much doubt left that Putin preferred Trump over Hillary, and it's become pretty clear why.

 

[metis]

If I'm innocent of charges that have been brought against me, I want every piece of information that's involved to come out so as to show that I'm innocent. OTOH, if I'm guilty of said charges, then I certainly don't want all this information to come out.

With the Trump camp, which approach are they taking?

 

[esmith]

The way I see the Russian involvement in our affairs is that they see us as their adversaries and anything they can do to weaken us in their best interest.
The way I see things are as follows.
Russian hacking the DNC and John Podesta emails and releasing the information. Now I really don't think they preferred one candidate over the other, but they basically wanted to disrupt the US anyway they could. What better way to destabilize the American public than appearing to favor one candidate over the other, and it worked. We are at each others throat and we are more concerned with investigating our own vice really looking at the real culprit, the Russians. The Russians are becoming more influential in parts of the world than they have in many years and we do not seem that concerned. Seems that what the old USSR was really good at still applies to the new(?) Russia.

Now on another note.
It seems that the Russians are now a very large threat to the US as evidenced by the idea that there is a Russian behind every politician. Yet, how many years ago was the famous line "the 1980's are calling, they want their foreign policy back" uttered about the Russians. Seems that someone was right and someone was wrong.
Where was the outrage over the hot mike comment "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."?
So have the Democrats woken-up to the idea that maybe the Russians aren't our friends? Or is it they have decided that the Russians are bad but they can not do anything about them, but they can win elections by showing their opponents in a bad light?
Sure is a sorry state of affairs when one puts winning elections over national security. And this goes for both parties.

 

[Stevicus]

Agreed.

Ditto again, but we also have to remember that the Russian actions have shown that they are looking at this differently, namely the invasion of Crimea, ramping up hostilities in the Ukraine, close fly-bys with our ships, hacking into out political affairs that they're also doing with the European democracies, etc.

This is very serious stuff that they're doing, and I don't think there's much doubt left that Putin preferred Trump over Hillary, and it's become pretty clear why.

I try to look at it in the context of their overall history and try to understand their perspective that way. This is especially true regarding the long and intertwined histories of both Russia and Ukraine. It's not that I'm unsympathetic, but I think that sticking our nose into that particular hornets' nest will probably do far more harm than good. Whatever issues exist between Russia and Ukraine, they've existed for a long time. It would be analogous to trying to interfere in the British/Northern Ireland situation. There are some things that we're better off not getting involved.

We've been doing serious stuff, too. For the past 30 years or so, we've been actively militarily involved in areas of the world which are pretty close to the Russians' backyard. Even longer than that, we've been fixing elections in other countries, organizing coups, interfering in other countries' internal affairs, etc.

We do stuff, they do stuff. There's still no reason that we can't come to some sort of agreement or rapprochement.

I'm not sure how Putin might have acted differently if Hillary had been elected instead of Trump. That's why I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm still not entirely convinced of all this, mainly because I can't really imagine what the "endgame" is supposed to look like in all of this. Trump's campaign has been mostly about "America First," which might suggest a lessened interest in being part of international coalitions or the world's policeman. He's mentioned how much America has to pay for all of this, and expects other countries to pony up their share of the expense. Is it possible that the Russians could see this as an opportunity to make more mischief, if America no longer takes an active interventionist role in global politics? Is that the underlying fear regarding these allegations about the Russians?

 

[metis]

Is that the underlying fear regarding these allegations about the Russians?

Yes, because this fits into a pattern that the Russians have been using that includes them meddling also into European elections.

So, the concern is why is it that there were these numerous meetings between at least four of Trump's campaign staff, whereas their response was to deny there ever was such meetings, but when they got exposed, they've come up with excuses? IOW, if nothing sinister was involved, why lie? Why did Trump claim to never have talked to Putin when there are recordings showing them together? Why did Trump say he had no business dealings with the Russians when his son said they had a lot of business dealings with them the year before, which should show up if true if his taxes were released? Why does Trump continually defend Putin while dissing our NATO allies?

But there's another factor here, namely British and Dutch investigations that suggest that maybe Trump could have been caught doing something, let's say, not quite "kosher" when he was in Moscow. If so, they could hang this over his head, threatening to release this if he didn't comply with them. The former MI6 agent who released some information apparently on this, who has always been considered trustworthy by our own CIA, is now in hiding, undoubtedly because Putin has a "tendency" to have political opponents suddenly get "ill", if you know what I mean.

This is very serious stuff, plus there's some other issues involved as well.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, because this fits into a pattern that the Russians have been using that includes them meddling also into European elections.

So, the concern is why is it that there were these numerous meetings between at least four of Trump's campaign staff, whereas their response was to deny there ever was such meetings, but when they got exposed, they've come up with excuses? IOW, if nothing sinister was involved, why lie? Why did Trump claim to never have talked to Putin when there are recordings showing them together? Why did Trump say he had no business dealings with the Russians when his son said they had a lot of business dealings with them the year before, which should show up if true if his taxes were released? Why does Trump continually defend Putin while dissing our NATO allies?

But there's another factor here, namely British and Dutch investigations that suggest that maybe Trump could have been caught doing something, let's say, not quite "kosher" when he was in Moscow. If so, they could hang this over his head, threatening to release this if he didn't comply with them. The former MI6 agent who released some information apparently on this, who has always been considered trustworthy by our own CIA, is now in hiding, undoubtedly because Putin has a "tendency" to have political opponents suddenly get "ill", if you know what I mean.

This is very serious stuff, plus there's some other issues involved as well.

If these secret Russian connections are serious, then Nancy Pelosi should be investigated too.
She denied ever meeting them, but records show otherwise.
Photo contradicts Pelosi's statement about not meeting Kislyak