Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

[Subduction Zone]

Sheesh @shunyadragon and @SpiritualisT ....haven't you guys been paying attention? Every supposed "objection" you raise to @Hockeycowboy has a very obvious and simple resolution.....Jehovah did it.

So there's no real point to any of this, is there?

And yet he gets irritated when we point out that he is relying on magic.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Wow! ”The springs of the vast watery deep burst forth.” — Genesis 7:11

Those were not from the ‘waters above’.

And BTW, screaming is by using capital letters.

Hmmm...and you believe that water "bursting forth" from the earth would be anything but violent? Maybe you meant to say that "The springs of the vast watery deep kind of oozed out gently"?

 

[RedhorseWoman]

If the animals came to Noah then is even more illogical than Noah bringing the animals to the ark. How had the animals knew about the flood and that Yahve will kill everything breathing on earth? Where did they know where is the ark? Have the animals been smart enough to realize this? The answer is ”No”. If tomorrow Yahve will bring another flood, no animal will realize this because animals are just animals and not smart enough to take such actions. And if you are still blindly believing that the Ark had the ideal sizes, let's do the counting
(let's consider 50 centimeters per cubit)
Length - 300 cubits = 150 meters = about 11.200 inches
Width - 50 cubits = 25 meters = about 1000 inches
Height - 30 cubits = 15 meters = about 600 inches

To calculate the surface, you will have 150 x 25 = 3750 x 3 (levels) = 11.250 square meters / 44.300 inches

If you put every pair of animals in a cell, you will split 11.250 meters to 35.000 species = 0,32 square meters per cell (12,5 inches).
This is ridiculous. You might say: "smaller species had smaller cells", but still, at this numbers is ridiculous to believe that you can fit a male and a female of 35.000 species of animals in a 11.250 square meters ark. It is also ridiculous to believe that a few thousands of years ago there were only 35.000 species of animals when now there are millions. Seems like the animals had incest just like Eve and repopulated the earth by only two individuals. And basically you have no proofs that there was 35.000 species on earth, you have no proof that Noah really existed, you have no proofs about the story itself. Even your biblical assumptions which are based on blind faith are ridiculous. How brainwashed and ignorant can be someone to believe this BS? Is like jews are calling Christians "stupid" in their face and they are agreeing with the jews.

Don't forget that that area needed to also store hundreds of tons of food and water, as well as afford living quarters for the humans. Seems that larger animals would have a wee bit of a problem with the amount of space accorded to them.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Oh my, another Christian that thinks the Ninth Commandment does not apply to him. You are the one that is either forgetful or lacks comprehension. It would take over five miles of water to cover Everest. You have not been able to refute one iota of geology.

You claim that over 5 miles of water fell from the sky...

No, this is your false assumption / Strawman....all yours.
One more time....did all the floodwaters come from above?
What does the account say?

And you call me ignorant. Rich.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, this is your false assumption / Strawman....all yours.
One more time....did all the floodwaters come from above?
What does the account say?

And you call me ignorant. Rich.

It does not matter where they came from. Not only would you cook Noah and company you would make a massive storm in doing so.

Again, you do not know how to use the term "strawman" correctly. Since you won't clearly lay out exactly what you mean refutations of your wrong no matter what your excuse is claims are not "strawman arguments".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Also, claiming not to be a YEC, but having all sorts of YEC beliefs is self contradictory.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Meanwhile I am still waiting for an explanation of why one can't get a kidney transplant from anyone?

 

[Skwim]

I already did, the study from the University of Leicester.

Here's credentials of Dr. Soon Won Hong:

https://www.zoominfo.com/p/name/515337181

Ah yes, Zoominfo. Where all good peer reviewed science is published.

ZoomInfo is a subscription-based software as a service (SaaS) company based in Waltham, Massachusetts that sells access to its database of information about business people and companies to sales, marketing and recruiting professionals.

Zoominfo is a database marketing company. In Zoominfo's original business model, it sold access to its database of information about business people; its initial customers were human resources professionals, and people interested in targeting ads to business people and tracking their responses In 2005 it said had information on about 25 million people and 1.5 million companies; by 2007 it said it had information on about 40 million people
Zoominfo acquired and maintains its database by copying data from the internet using a proprietary web crawler called NextGenSearchBot analyzing the copied data to extract information, and storing the information in a database.
Source: Wikipedia
​

And, which if you have taken a look at the articles, amounts to nothing more than fundie preaching.

The animals came in two by two, hurrah! — University of Leicester

Which is nothing more than silly pap coming from "University of Leicester students."

Good grief man, get a grip. Although this stuff may impress you, most of us have at least graduated from high school and actually recognize crap when we smell it.


.

.​

 

[shunyadragon]

No, this is your false assumption / Strawman....all yours.
One more time....did all the floodwaters come from above?
What does the account say?

And you call me ignorant. Rich.

It is impossible that that amount of water can come from below nor above nor both. No objective evidence has been provided to support any of this and the volume of water involved.

Is there any source that objectively justifies 5 miles of water?

Please give academic sources that explain the vast limestone formations folded and faulted inside Mount Everest containing the fossils and coral reefs the same as found at the surface in the limestone rock.

Again and again and again limestone is ONLY deposited in shallow warm seas with lots of coral reefs.

Still waiting . . . .

 

[nPeace]

It is impossible that that amount of water can come from below nor above nor both. No objective evidence has been provided to support any of this and the volume of water involved.

Is there any source that objectively justifies 5 miles of water?

Please give academic sources that explain the vast limestone formations folded and faulted inside Mount Everest containing the fossils and coral reefs the same as found at the surface in the limestone rock.

Again and again and again limestone is ONLY deposited in shallow warm seas with lots of coral reefs.

Still waiting . . . .

I'm just wondering, how did you arrive at 5 miles of water?
Where in the Genesis account does it say how much water?
The only thing I read was that the waters covered the tallest mountains 21.8333 ft high.

The account also specifically says that the ark was covered inside and outside with tar.
God was the one who gave them instructions on how to build the ark, and what to do. God led the animals to the ark, and God shut the door. The Bible says God sustained and delivered them.
2 Peter 2:5 . . .but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people.

Therefore the ark was sturdy enough to float on the water, and the occupants were well protected.
It is evident that God knew exactly what he was doing.
Dimensions of the ark.
437.5 ft long
72.92 ft wide
43.75 ft high

THE SYRACUSIA
When Archias of Corinth built the ship according to Archimedes’ plans, it turned out that she was so big that no harbor in Sicily was large enough to admit her. Hiero II had to think long and hard what to do with her. Eventually, he decided to send the ship as a present to Ptolemy, the king of Egypt. The Alexandrian port appeared to be the only one that could host this marvelous construction. Hence, originally named as “Syracusia,” the ship was renamed “Alexandria” and prepared for loading.

Athenaeus in his book Deipnosophistae, cited the only description of the vessel and its load was written by the historian Moschion of Phaselis. According to his narrative, the Syracusia/Alexandria was loaded with:
- 60, 000 measures of corn
- 10, 000 jars of Sicilian salt-fish
- 20, 000 talents (500,000 – 600,000 kg/ 1,102,000 - 1,323,000 lb) weight of wool
- 20, 000 talents of other cargo (500,000 – 600,000 kg/ 1,102,000 - 1,323,000 lb)
- 2, 000 measures of water in a container for drinking and bathing
Besides all this, on board there were also the crew, passengers, soldiers and even horses.

DIMENSIONS
The facts we know about the Syracusia come from the text of Athenaeus and they are as follows:
Length – 55 m (180 ft), some other sources give 110m (360 ft)
Cargo capacity – between 1, 600 and 1, 800 tons and 1940 passengers, warriors and crew, as well as 20 horses with separate stalls for everyone.
Timber used for building the Syracusia – equal to the material needed for 60 standard triremeships (40 m long and 6 m wide)
Construction period – 1 year, built by 300 workers

We know about ancient authors’ tendency to exaggerate facts in their enthusiasm to describe something extraordinary. Even so, the Syracusia must have been a remarkable ship.

Unfortunately, the Syracusia sailed just once – on that trip from Sicily to the North Africa. It is not known for sure what happened to her after that, as she was never mentioned again in any later historical sources.

Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia
Description
Wyoming was 450 ft (140 m) overall, 350 ft (110 m) on deck, and 329.5 feet (100.4 m) between perpendiculars. She was 50 ft 1 in (15.27 m) wide, and had a draft of 30 ft 5 in (9.27 m). Her gross register tonnage (GRT) was 3730.54, equivalent to an internal volume of 373,054 cubic feet (10,563.7 m3). Her net register tonnage (NRT) was 3036.21, reflecting a cargo capacity of 303,621 cubic feet (8,597.6 m3), determined by subtracting the volume consumed by the helm and crew quarters and other areas not suitable for cargo from her GRT. She had a deadweight tonnage (DWT) of 6,004 long tons, that is, the weight of the ship fully loaded, including the crew, cargo (6,000 tons), fuel, water and stores, less the weight of the ship when totally empty (4,000 tons). It could carry 6,000 long tons of coal. Wyoming was built of yellow pine with 6" planking and there were 90 diagonal iron cross-bracings on each side.

 

[nPeace]

I think you are forgetting something.
If you are going to mention the Flood account, you cannot apply natural science, since if you are trying to deny the flood account in Genesis, you have to include the supernatural, and since that doesn't fit, you have a choice - admit you cannot disprove the flood happened, or accept that it could have happened, and there is evidence.

 

[metis]

Since the Holy Scripture's Author is Jehovah God, and in it He reveals some details of the Noachian Flood describing His hand in it

Why are you assuming that a literalistic interpretation is the only viable one, and why are you assuming that all that's found in the Bible is inerrant and supposedly directly from God? What evidence do you have for these positions?

In science, we go by evidence and not assumptions.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm just wondering, how did you arrive at 5 miles of water?
Where in the Genesis account does it say how much water?
The only thing I read was that the waters covered the tallest mountains 21.8333 ft high.

Actually 29,029/5280= 5.9 miles. Where do you get the water to cover these mountains. Where did all the water go after the flood?

The account also specifically says that the ark was covered inside and outside with tar.
God was the one who gave them instructions on how to build the ark, and what to do. God led the animals to the ark, and God shut the door. The Bible says God sustained and delivered them.
2 Peter 2:5 . . .but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people.

Therefore the ark was sturdy enough to float on the water, and the occupants were well protected.
It is evident that God knew exactly what he was doing.
Dimensions of the ark.
437.5 ft long
72.92 ft wide
43.75 ft high

The fact that it would float means nothing. The design as cited was not sea worthy. Despite contemporary technology no one has built a sea worthy arc.

THE SYRACUSIA
When Archias of Corinth built the ship according to Archimedes’ plans, it turned out that she was so big that no harbor in Sicily was large enough to admit her. Hiero II had to think long and hard what to do with her. Eventually, he decided to send the ship as a present to Ptolemy, the king of Egypt. The Alexandrian port appeared to be the only one that could host this marvelous construction. Hence, originally named as “Syracusia,” the ship was renamed “Alexandria” and prepared for loading.

Athenaeus in his book Deipnosophistae, cited the only description of the vessel and its load was written by the historian Moschion of Phaselis. According to his narrative, the Syracusia/Alexandria was loaded with:
- 60, 000 measures of corn
- 10, 000 jars of Sicilian salt-fish
- 20, 000 talents (500,000 – 600,000 kg/ 1,102,000 - 1,323,000 lb) weight of wool
- 20, 000 talents of other cargo (500,000 – 600,000 kg/ 1,102,000 - 1,323,000 lb)
- 2, 000 measures of water in a container for drinking and bathing
Besides all this, on board there were also the crew, passengers, soldiers and even horses.

DIMENSIONS
The facts we know about the Syracusia come from the text of Athenaeus and they are as follows:
Length – 55 m (180 ft), some other sources give 110m (360 ft)
Cargo capacity – between 1, 600 and 1, 800 tons and 1940 passengers, warriors and crew, as well as 20 horses with separate stalls for everyone.
Timber used for building the Syracusia – equal to the material needed for 60 standard triremeships (40 m long and 6 m wide)
Construction period – 1 year, built by 300 workers

We know about ancient authors’ tendency to exaggerate facts in their enthusiasm to describe something extraordinary. Even so, the Syracusia must have been a remarkable ship.

Unfortunately, the Syracusia sailed just once – on that trip from Sicily to the North Africa. It is not known for sure what happened to her after that, as she was never mentioned again in any later historical sources.

There is absolutely no evidence that this ship was ever built.

The design of the Wyoming was a modern engineered ship and not as large as the arc. The arc was not well designed to be sea worthy, and as referenced the design was not sea worthy regardless of whether it could float or not. Actually without a well defined reinforced keel, rounded hull, and steel beam structural support it would break up. The design of the arc does not include steel, and to add the technology of the time was not capable of building such a sea worthy ship.

 

[Muffled]

Ah so, you dont believe the bible, you believe
yourself.

I believe that is a non-sequitur.

 

[Muffled]

As previously noted, an argument or belief from ignorance.

"evolution is formed from a lack of evidence"
does not even make sense.

As for your last part there-

Knowing nothing of science does not
keep you from disbelieving it.

Show me the eyewitness reports of scientists living 30,000 years ago.

 

[nPeace]

Actually 29,029/5280= 5.9 miles. Where do you get the water to cover these mountains. Where did all the water go after the flood?

Where did you come up with that figure, is my question?

The fact that it would float means nothing. The design as cited was not sea worthy. Despite contemporary technology no one has built a sea worthy arc.



There is absolutely no evidence that this ship was ever built.

The design of the Wyoming was a modern engineered ship and not as large as the arc. The arc was not well designed to be sea worthy, and as referenced the design was not sea worthy regardless of whether it could float or not. Actually without a well defined reinforced keel, rounded hull, and steel beam structural support it would break up. The design of the arc does not include steel, and to add the technology of the time was not capable of building such a sea worthy ship.

You mean ark. The ark was not built for a voyage across the sea. We don't read that in Genesis, do we?
Also,what is your evidence against a lack in technology.

 

[shunyadragon]

Where did you come up with that figure, is my question?

Do the math and google the height of Everest and the other mountains. Mount Everest is 29,029 feet/5280 feet= 5.9 miles elevation.

From: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...130.130.0j1....1..0....1..gws-wiz._qQPyVfn6_A
Mount Everest
Mountain in Asia
4.2Wikipedia

Elevation: 29,029′
First ascent: May 29, 1953
Prominence: 29,029′

Again, Again, and again - Where did the water come from, and where did the water go?????

You mean ark. The ark was not built for a voyage across the sea. We don't read that in Genesis, do we?

A flood that covers the earth is the largest ocean possible. The journey was 40 days on this ocean

Also,what is your evidence against a lack in technology.

There is absolutely no evidence of any such technology capable of the Bronze Age world of the ancient Middle East.

The design is not sea worthy. No one today, even using modern technology has been able to build a wooden ship on the design of the Ark that will make a journey fully loaded even in calm water.

 

[Muffled]

Reminds me of this:

I believe like most political ads that one only provides enough truth to deceive people.

The fact remains God was an eyewitness and scientists are not.

I am reminded of the case where a person fingerprints are on the murder weapon (fictitiously) but there were no eyewitnesses that the person committed the murder. It looks like he might have done it but there is no solid proof.

 

[nPeace]

Do the math and google the height of Everest and the other mountains. Mount Everest is 29,029 feet/5280 feet= 5.9 miles elevation.

From: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...130.130.0j1....1..0....1..gws-wiz._qQPyVfn6_A
Mount Everest
Mountain in Asia
4.2Wikipedia

Elevation: 29,029′
First ascent: May 29, 1953
Prominence: 29,029′

Again, Again, and again - Where did the water come from, and where did the water go?????



A flood that covers the earth is the largest ocean possible. The journey was 40 days on this ocean



There is absolutely no evidence of any such technology capable of the Bronze Age world of the ancient Middle East.

The design is not sea worthy. No one today, even using modern technology has been able to build a wooden ship on the design of the Ark that will make a journey fully loaded even in calm water.

Oh. I see. You are assuming that the mountains were the same height over 4,000 years ago. You perhaps are also assuming that the mountains grew at the same rate over 4,000 years ago. You are also assuming that you know how high the tallest mountains were, and what mountains those were 4,000 year ago.
Sorry. Your assumptions are not facts.

You say there is no evidence that Syracusia was built.
What to you is evidence? Fossils?
It is documented as a historical event.
Syracusia - Wikipedia
Syracusia
The people were real people, and the ship was a real ship.
Historical record are not regarded as scrap, because they are no physical remains.

Regarding technology, you are again making assumptions - not stating facts.
Ancient civilizations
Mesopotamia
They were one of the first Bronze age people in the world. Early on they used copper, bronze and gold, and later they used iron. Palaces were decorated with hundreds of kilograms of these very expensive metals. Also, copper, bronze, and iron were used for armor as well as for different weapons such as swords, daggers, spears, and maces.

According to the assyriologist Stephanie Dalley, the earliest pump was the Archimedes' screw, first used by Sennacherib, King of Assyria, for the water systems at the Hanging Gardens of Babylon and Nineveh in the 7th century BCE. This attribution, however, is refuted by the historian of ancient water-lifting devices Olseon in the same paper, who still credits, as well as most other scholars, Archimedes with the invention.

Perhaps the most important advance made by the Mesopotamians was the invention of writing by the Sumerians. With the invention of writing came the first recorded laws called the Code of Hammurabi as well as the first major piece of literature called the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Although archaeologists don't know for sure who invented the wheel, the oldest wheel discovered was found in Mesopotamia. It is likely the Sumer first used the wheel in making pottery in 3500BC and used it for their chariots in around 3200 BC.

 

[shunyadragon]

Oh. I see. You are assuming that the mountains were the same height over 4,000 years ago. You perhaps are also assuming that the mountains grew at the same rate over 4,000 years ago. You are also assuming that you know how high the tallest mountains were, and what mountains those were 4,000 year ago.
Sorry. Your assumptions are not facts.

The laws of thermodynamics are working against your mythical assertions without evidence for the growth of mountains and the flood for that matter. . The energy needed to raise up mountains in such a very short time are impossible. There is historical evidence of the existence of the Himilayas, Andes, and the Alps going back to at least 1000 BCE.

Again, again, again and again . . . Where did the water come from, and where did the water go?????

There is absolutely no evidence that the flood occurred. What physical evidence can you cite to support the flood?

You say there is no evidence that Syracusia was built.
What to you is evidence? Fossils?
It is documented as a historical event.
Syracusia - Wikipedia
Syracusia
The people were real people, and the ship was a real ship.
Historical record are not regarded as scrap, because they are no physical remains.

Historical records are not evidence the ship was ever built. As you said exaggeration is common in ancient historical records.

Regarding technology, you are again making assumptions - not stating facts.

Ancient civilizations
Mesopotamia
They were one of the first Bronze age people in the world. Early on they used copper, bronze and gold, and later they used iron. Palaces were decorated with hundreds of kilograms of these very expensive metals. Also, copper, bronze, and iron were used for armor as well as for different weapons such as swords, daggers, spears, and maces.

According to the assyriologist Stephanie Dalley, the earliest pump was the Archimedes' screw, first used by Sennacherib, King of Assyria, for the water systems at the Hanging Gardens of Babylon and Nineveh in the 7th century BCE. This attribution, however, is refuted by the historian of ancient water-lifting devices Olseon in the same paper, who still credits, as well as most other scholars, Archimedes with the invention.

Perhaps the most important advance made by the Mesopotamians was the invention of writing by the Sumerians. With the invention of writing came the first recorded laws called the Code of Hammurabi as well as the first major piece of literature called the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Although archaeologists don't know for sure who invented the wheel, the oldest wheel discovered was found in Mesopotamia. It is likely the Sumer first used the wheel in making pottery in 3500BC and used it for their chariots in around 3200 BC.

You are not stating facts concerning the technology at the time the Ark was claimed to be built. Copper, bronze will not help building an Ark.


Iron was not used until after 1200 BC.