Evolution & Creationism are both Faith & Supernatural based

[Patriottechsan]

To illustrate this. Answer this question Evolutionist, Darwin or Theistic, Do you believe in eternal existence?
We know Creationist do already due to belief in eternal God, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.

 

[SalixIncendium]

To illustrate this. Answer this question Evolutionist, Darwin or Theistic, Do you believe in eternal existence?
We know Creationist do already due to belief in eternal God, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.

I'm an eternally existing theist that accepts the theory of evolution. How does this illustrate that both evolution and creationism are faith and supernatural based?

 

[Brickjectivity]

To illustrate this. Answer this question Evolutionist, Darwin or Theistic, Do you believe in eternal existence?
We know Creationist do already due to belief in eternal God, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.

I am not a researcher, but I know some do some don't. Evolution is an explanation for why all creatures appear related and how they could speciate. It was never a secret that all species were similar, but nobody had discovered how any creature could speciate into separate groups until Naturalists wandered into a group of islands called the Galapagos. They found evidence of speciation due to the separations between the islands. Then many naturalists began looking to see similar separations that could cause speciation and found more of them. More recently its been discovered that speciation can be encouraged by symbiotic relationships, too. For example if some arachnids find a human camp and begin to drink human blood they can survive differently than some that don't find a human camp, thus directing their development in two different directions. It doesn't relate to the beginning of time or whether existence is ongoing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To illustrate this. Answer this question Evolutionist, Darwin or Theistic, Do you believe in eternal existence?
We know Creationist do already due to belief in eternal God, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.

You appear to have a rather strange view of what evolution is. Evolution does not say that there is no God . It only explains the diversity of life. Many, if not most, Christians accept the theory of evolution. Christians that demand the myths of Genesis are true is mostly a U.S. Phenomenon.

 

[Brickjectivity]

*** Mod: moved thread from Science & Technology to Evolution vs. Creationism located under Religious Debates ***

 

[Patriottechsan]

You need to answer the question for me to show you by steps. But I'll go ahead & show you by explanation. Esp because you have been exceedingly kind & helpful to me this my first day.

I'll do my best to make this clearly understandable.

If an evolutionist doesn't believe in eternal existence. They have a huge problem. They have to explain the origin of the original energy w/o using Faith or Supernatural & it coming into existence from nothing. See that takes both Faith & Supernatural. Science law says something can't come from nothing! Again that proves its using Faith & Supernatural.

Now if they believe in eternal existence. Then what is the difference between them & creationist & believing in an eternal God. Both are using Faith & Supernatural to explain eternal existence whether it be energy or God. So then the question becomes Why do they then have such a problem believing in an eternal existent God & their eternal existent energy or Faith or Supernatural that produced that energy from nothing.

They both come from the same place no matter how or where you cut it.

All of it comes from Faith & Supernatural ultimate Base from the start!

I hope I explained this well enough.

Again my deepest appreciation to you personally for your help today! Thanks!

 

[Ellen Brown]

To illustrate this. Answer this question Evolutionist, Darwin or Theistic, Do you believe in eternal existence?
We know Creationist do already due to belief in eternal God, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.

I am sorry if this seems too pointed, but I am old and frustrated. There are not many who will agree with me.

Religion is a part of Science and the two are inseparable. The sad part is that some vocal egotistical people who try to prove that either system does not exist just create a lot of inflammatory emotion with no tangible result. Sadly the uber religious are so busy with their rigid and Godless doctrines that they exclude anyone who is not in lock step with them. Many of them try to define God and to limit him by their inane and condemning pronouncements that he is three in one or three only, and are so busy with their sordid arguments that they exclude the real following of God, "having a form of Godliness but who deny the power there in".

On the other hand, often Scientists with faith are ridiculed and discredited by those who see that as weakness.

 

[Patriottechsan]

Ultimately we are discussing ORIGINS! So we must start at the beginning!

 

[Subduction Zone]

You need to answer the question for me to show you by steps. But I'll go ahead & show you by explanation. Esp because you have been exceedingly kind & helpful to me this my first day.

I'll do my best to make this clearly understandable.

If an evolutionist doesn't believe in eternal existence. They have a huge problem. They have to explain the origin of the original energy w/o using Faith or Supernatural & it coming into existence from nothing. See that takes both Faith & Supernatural. Science law says something can't come from nothing! Again that proves its using Faith & Supernatural.

Nope, they don't. This has nothing to do with evolution. Now you have moved the goalposts all the way to the Big Bang theory and tacitly admitted that evolution is a fact.

Now if they believe in eternal existence. Then what is the difference between them & creationist & believing in an eternal God. Both are using Faith & Supernatural to explain eternal existence whether it be energy or God. So then the question becomes Why do they then have such a problem believing in an eternal existent God & their eternal existent energy or Faith or Supernatural that produced that energy from nothing.

They both come from the same place no matter how or where you cut it.

All of it comes from Faith & Supernatural ultimate Base from the start!

I hope I explained this well enough.

Again my deepest appreciation to you personally for your help today! Thanks!

Yes, you are very confused. Do you understand your error yet?

 

[SalixIncendium]

You need to answer the question for me to show you by steps. But I'll go ahead & show you by explanation. Esp because you have been exceedingly kind & helpful to me this my first day.

I'll do my best to make this clearly understandable.

If an evolutionist doesn't believe in eternal existence. They have a huge problem. They have to explain the origin of the original energy w/o using Faith or Supernatural & it coming into existence from nothing. See that takes both Faith & Supernatural. Science law says something can't come from nothing! Again that proves its using Faith & Supernatural.

Now if they believe in eternal existence. Then what is the difference between them & creationist & believing in an eternal God. Both are using Faith & Supernatural to explain eternal existence whether it be energy or God. So then the question becomes Why do they then have such a problem believing in an eternal existent God & their eternal existent energy or Faith or Supernatural that produced that energy from nothing.

They both come from the same place no matter how or where you cut it.

All of it comes from Faith & Supernatural ultimate Base from the start!

I hope I explained this well enough.

Again my deepest appreciation to you personally for your help today! Thanks!

You're quite welcome.

Back to the topic, I did answer the questions. I stated that I accept the theory of evolution, but I am also a theist that has an eternal existence. I have no issue reconciling my worldview with the theory of evolution and don't see either as supernatural or faith based.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ultimately we are discussing ORIGINS! So we must start at the beginning!

Nope. You moved the goalposts so far that you lost any debate on evolution.

 

[ChristineM]

Evolution & Creationism are both Faith & Supernatural based

Except evolution is evidence based

And welcome to RF

 

[HonestJoe]

Now if they believe in eternal existence. Then what is the difference between them & creationist & believing in an eternal God.

Specificity. Your previous paragraph gave a perfectly logical argument against there being some definitive origin which makes believing that there has always been something in existence perfectly rational. Once you start making any kind of specific and detailed assertions about what that "something" is without any evidential or logical basis though, you're going beyond the rational and in to faith.

A couple of side-points from your OP;

There's not really any such thing as an "evolutionist". It's just one of countless sub-fields of science and nothing that special or worthy of specific focus. The general beliefs and opinions of all the people who causally accept evolution as a reasonable explanation for the diversity of life and that of the much smaller group of people who have actually studied the field will be largely independent of that specific aspect. There are even people who believe in some kind of Creator but also in evolutionary process.

You also seem to presume that all Creationists are Christians (and a specific type of Christian at that). This is obviously not the case and so suggests a major flaw in your perceptions which you might wish to reconsider.

 

[Patriottechsan]

No I have not. See evolution uses the Big Bang as part of the start to begin teaching ORIGINS. So I'm starting where they do. You can't just ignore that & pick & choose where else you want to start. Esp true for pure atheistic evolutionist that claim pure naturalistist origins & in no way will allow for Faith nor Supernatural. I'm showing that that is false. Origins starts by Faith & Supernatural with atheistic evolution by how they teach origins starting with Big Bang.


I'll even go you one further. So let's assume the Big Bang was the start. Now Creationist & Theistic can use Faith & Supernatural to explain God used His guiding hand to set the heavens in the precision we see in the heavens that are so fine tuned that if one of so many measurements of any kind were off any life couldn't exist on this planet.

Yet for atheist evolutionist They don't have the option of Faith or Supernatural as Atheist. So they are in a bind. They have to "BELIEVE" W/O "FAITH or " SUPERNATURAL" & any scientific experiment that proves any explosion of Energy creates precision & order!! See my Dad was in WWII & on a Navy warship on the way to Japan to be ready for the first wave of attack like Normady when the atomic bomb was dropped. Yet did that explosion of atomic energy, or any hurricane, tornado, etc we've ever seen leave behind & create precision & order?
The problem is real science has experimental proofs to validate theories or hypothesis. Not one has ever validated that one. So atheistic evolutionist MUST USE FAITH & SUPERNATURAL AGAINST THEIR WILL to have to BIG BANG create the heavens in such precise order so that life could exist on earth.

We haven't gotten to the other parts evolution has to use Faith & Supernatural for evolution because for it to occur it actually violates the very laws of science & nature that evolution itself had to create since it is credited with creating everything. Right now my phone is running out of energy. I need to recharge it. Due to my being on disability I can hardly sit at my computer to do this as it puts my back & me in excruciating pain. I will return asap.
Be patient. Thanks.

 

[ChristineM]

No I have not. See evolution uses the Big Bang as part of the start to begin teaching ORIGINS. So I'm starting where they do. You can't just ignore that & pick & choose where else you want to start. Esp true for pure atheistic evolutionist that claim pure naturalistist origins & in no way will allow for Faith nor Supernatural. I'm showing that that is false. Origins starts by Faith & Supernatural with atheistic evolution by how they teach origins starting with Big Bang.


I'll even go you one further. So let's assume the Big Bang was the start. Now Creationist & Theistic can use Faith & Supernatural to explain God used His guiding hand to set the heavens in the precision we see in the heavens that are so fine tuned that if one of so many measurements of any kind were off any life couldn't exist on this planet.

Yet for atheist evolutionist They don't have the option of Faith or Supernatural as Atheist. So they are in a bind. They have to "BELIEVE" W/O "FAITH or " SUPERNATURAL" & any scientific experiment that proves any explosion of Energy creates precision & order!! See my Dad was in WWII & on a Navy warship on the way to Japan to be ready for the first wave of attack like Normady when the atomic bomb was dropped. Yet did that explosion of atomic energy, or any hurricane, tornado, etc we've ever seen leave behind & create precision & order?
The problem is real science has experimental proofs to validate theories or hypothesis. Not one has ever validated that one. So atheistic evolutionist MUST USE FAITH & SUPERNATURAL AGAINST THEIR WILL to have to BIG BANG create the heavens in such precise order so that life could exist on earth.

We haven't gotten to the other parts evolution has to use Faith & Supernatural for evolution because for it to occur it actually violates the very laws of science & nature that evolution itself had to create since it is credited with creating everything. Right now my phone is running out of energy. I need to recharge it. Due to my being on disability I can hardly sit at my computer to do this as it puts my back & me in excruciating pain. I will return asap.
Be patient. Thanks.

Two different starts

The BB occured about 13.8 billion years ago
The universe evolved

Abiogenesis occured a little over 3.5 billion years ago
Life evolved.

Unless you want to say that life evolved before if actually existed.

What is atheistic evolution? The catholic acceptance of evolution any different?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No I have not. See evolution uses the Big Bang as part of the start to begin teaching ORIGINS. So I'm starting where they do. You can't just ignore that & pick & choose where else you want to start. Esp true for pure atheistic evolutionist that claim pure naturalistist origins & in no way will allow for Faith nor Supernatural. I'm showing that that is false. Origins starts by Faith & Supernatural with atheistic evolution by how they teach origins starting with Big Bang.


I'll even go you one further. So let's assume the Big Bang was the start. Now Creationist & Theistic can use Faith & Supernatural to explain God used His guiding hand to set the heavens in the precision we see in the heavens that are so fine tuned that if one of so many measurements of any kind were off any life couldn't exist on this planet.

Yet for atheist evolutionist They don't have the option of Faith or Supernatural as Atheist. So they are in a bind. They have to "BELIEVE" W/O "FAITH or " SUPERNATURAL" & any scientific experiment that proves any explosion of Energy creates precision & order!! See my Dad was in WWII & on a Navy warship on the way to Japan to be ready for the first wave of attack like Normady when the atomic bomb was dropped. Yet did that explosion of atomic energy, or any hurricane, tornado, etc we've ever seen leave behind & create precision & order?
The problem is real science has experimental proofs to validate theories or hypothesis. Not one has ever validated that one. So atheistic evolutionist MUST USE FAITH & SUPERNATURAL AGAINST THEIR WILL to have to BIG BANG create the heavens in such precise order so that life could exist on earth.

We haven't gotten to the other parts evolution has to use Faith & Supernatural for evolution because for it to occur it actually violates the very laws of science & nature that evolution itself had to create since it is credited with creating everything. Right now my phone is running out of energy. I need to recharge it. Due to my being on disability I can hardly sit at my computer to do this as it puts my back & me in excruciating pain. I will return asap.
Be patient. Thanks.

Repeating mistakes does not make them correct. Biological evolution only deals with life on Earth was it existed. It does not matter how the universe got here. It does not matter how our galaxy got here. It does not matter how our Solar System got here. It does not matter how our planet formed. It does not even matter what the source of the first cell was.

You are conceding all of these arguments by moving the goal posts all the way back to the Big Bang, and even that is not faith based.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Two different starts

The BB occured about 13.8 billion years ago
The universe evolved

Abiogenesis occured a little over 3.5 billion years ago
Life evolved.

Unless you want to say that life evolved before if actually existed.

What is atheistic evolution? The catholic acceptance of evolution any different?

Hmm, maybe it is like "atheistic gravity". Atheists fall because of the force of attraction between two masses. Fundies fall because Adam ate an Apple.

 

[Father Heathen]

*sigh* As others have stated, evolution doesn't say that "something came from nothing" nor is the theory of evolution and the concept of god mutually exclusive.
It's kind of silly to attempt to debate evolution when you have little to no understanding of what it actually is.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

*sigh* As others have stated, evolution doesn't say that "something came from nothing" nor is the theory of evolution and the concept of god mutually exclusive.
It's kind of silly to attempt to debate evolution when you have little to no understanding of what it actually is.

Amazing, isn't it? Those who deny evolution most vigorously are always, always, those who least understand what the fricken heck it actually says.

Somehow or other, sheer ignorance turns out to be a shield against being wrong!

 

[Father Heathen]

Amazing, isn't it? Those who deny evolution most vigorously are always, always, those who least understand what the fricken heck it actually says.

Somehow or other, sheer ignorance turns out to be a shield against being wrong!

If creationists were informed, rational, and honest, there would be no creationists.