Evolution theory turns colleges into hellholes of depression

[Vishvavajra]

I'm sure mental health professionals generally use the same logic as in common discourse, which is creationist.

There is obviously no reasoning possible with you. It is nonsense that you are open to argument or being persuaded.

Now mental health is creationist? That's a new one.

I've invited you multiple times to reason with me. You have refused to do so, or even to explain your terms. Saying that if people weren't stupid they'd already agree with you is neither reasonable nor persuasive.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have to say, in some ways college is actually good for my depression. Just today I was approached by one of the Librarians (my boss' bosses), and she asked me if I wanted to work on another creative project for the library since she was so impressed with a character I drew for the library to use for an event. So I have gotten abstract subjective thinking projects, feedback on those projects that have helped to ease my depression, and I get them from a place that is allegedly a "hellhole of depression."

Now mental health is creationist? That's a new one.

If God designed the universe and everything in it, including us, then it follows that he also created the potential for schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, psychopathy, compulsive lying, addiction, and some other nasties that are apart of our genetics.

 

[Vishvavajra]

And did we mention that as the survey is based on self-reporting, it may well be that the only thing it demonstrates is that university students are more aware of depression as an illness than they used to be, and that there's less stigma attached to it, so people are more likely to admit to having struggled with depression than they were 50 years go.

I will freely admit to having been depressed last fall. My awareness of natural selection had nothing to do with it; it was the result of an injury that caused me to be in great physical pain for an extended period, plus a lack of hope that it would ever get better. Feelings of uselessness, isolation, etc. Things turned around this year, I can exercise again, my religious practice has picked up again, and things are better. Not perfect, but better. And evolution by natural selection is still the cornerstone of biology.

There are a lot of things that can contribute to depression. I'm not familiar with any theory that includes science among the culprits.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And did we mention that as the survey is based on self-reporting, it may well be that the only thing it demonstrates is that university students are more aware of depression as an illness than they used to be, and that there's less stigma attached to it, so people are more likely to admit to having struggled with depression than they were 50 years go.

50 years ago college was not nearly as expensive and job prospective were much better and brighter. I think the stress of increasing costs of school, increased difficulties in finding work, and increased pressure to go the safe/easy money routes (such as business or IT) has many more depressed today than what we would find in previous decades. Today in America it is a very harsh reality that even with a college degree you may still end up working at McDonalds, or some other place that is far beneath your skills and abilities, and is not paying enough to comfortably make it, let alone the promises of financial security that a college degree is supposed to bring may potentially fail. I have no doubts depression and anxiety has probably been experienced by college students more so than the general population, but it is likely to be worse today given current circumstances (with the exception of perhaps the Vietnam War era).

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Now mental health is creationist? That's a new one.

Well, ofcourse it is. Obviously religion uses the same logic as in common discourse, and obviously psychologists would use the logic in common discourse as well to be practically useful.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

50 years ago college was not nearly as expensive and job prospective were much better and brighter. I think the stress of increasing costs of school, increased difficulties in finding work, and increased pressure to go the safe/easy money routes (such as business or IT) has many more depressed today than what we would find in previous decades. Today in America it is a very harsh reality that even with a college degree you may still end up working at McDonalds, or some other place that is far beneath your skills and abilities, and is not paying enough to comfortably make it, let alone the promises of financial security that a college degree is supposed to bring may potentially fail. I have no doubts depression and anxiety has probably been experienced by college students more so than the general population, but it is likely to be worse today given current circumstances (with the exception of perhaps the Vietnam War era).

Evidence on these issues can be misleading. I don't think the rate of depression is higher among college students than the population in general.

Obviously though, colleges are causing widespread depression by promulgating the idea that expression of emotions, forming an opinion, subjectivity, is invalid.

 

[Vishvavajra]

Well, ofcourse it is. Obviously religion uses the same logic as in common discourse, and obviously psychologists would use the logic in common discourse as well to be practically useful.

On the contrary, every religious tradition uses terminology and ways of expressing ideas that are significantly different from common discourse. It influences the way that people in a culture think and speak casually, but it's not the same thing as common everyday speech, and it carries many additional assumptions. The only way that common discourse and religious discourse would seem the same is if you spent all your time in a bubble, surrounded by people from the same religious culture, and had minimal contact with people outside it.

Psychology is likewise a specialized scientific discipline full of its own jargon and theoretical underpinnings. The average person cannot expect to open an academic journal of psychology and understand it, any more than the average person off the street could be expected to open up religious scripture and come to the same conclusions as the religious tradition that holds it as sacred.

I think what you're doing is coming to certain conclusions a priori and then saying that's how it is, since that's how it must be, without actually bothering with stuff like evidence.

 

[Vishvavajra]

Obviously though, colleges are causing widespread depression by promulgating the idea that expression of emotions, forming an opinion, subjectivity, is invalid.

Leaving aside the fact that you still haven't demonstrated a causal link behind the alleged correlation, where are you getting this idea that colleges are promulgating the idea that expressions of emotions, forming and opinion, and subjectivity are invalid? I've been closely affiliated with three different universities over a period of almost 20 years, and I've never witnessed what you're talking about.

I suppose what you're trying to imply is that the theory of evolution by natural selection somehow renders emotions, opinions, and subjectivity invalid. In that case I can easily and safely say that you are utterly mistaken. Biological theory is not directly connected to psychological theory, and evolutionary theory in biology says absolutely nothing about the subjective experience of individual organisms one way or the other. Perhaps you're getting it confused with evolutionary psychology, which is a field that exists but isn't something your average college student is likely to encounter, and which is often criticized even by other scientists as being overly reductionist in its assumptions.

There's a trend I've noticed, that every time I encounter a creationist who's arguing against evolutionary theory, it inevitably turns out they don't actually know anything about the theory they're disparaging, since they only read about it in creationist screeds. So there's a lot of distortion of very basic things, such as what exactly the theory consists of and how it is applied in the sciences. If you don't have a handle on that, you really can't form a coherent argument that people can engage with.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Evidence on these issues can be misleading. I don't think the rate of depression is higher among college students than the population in general.

Depression rates as the number 2 concern of college students. College is also a time of great stress as for many it means leaving home for the first time, an entirely new environment, new pressures, new experiences, being away from friends and family, and an academic pressure that is greater than that of high school. Add today that college in America is very expensive, job prospects are very poor, and pressure to conform to a "safe" money making degree even though today there really are no more "safe-bets" and I would not at all be surprised if college students have more depression, as well as anxiety, than the general population.

 

[Vishvavajra]

Depression rates as the number 2 concern of college students. College is also a time of great stress as for many it means leaving home for the first time, an entirely new environment, new pressures, new experiences, being away from friends and family, and an academic pressure that is greater than that of high school. Add today that college in America is very expensive, job prospects are very poor, and pressure to conform to a "safe" money making degree even though today there really are no more "safe-bets" and I would not at all be surprised if college students have more depression, as well as anxiety, than the general population.

Yes, removal of one's habitual routine and environment is a major risk factor. That's why people often experience bouts of depression after losing their job or home or loved ones. Young people are also likely to have erratic sleep schedules and questionable diets, which affect brain chemistry. And it can be hard for them to imagine what their futures will be like after college, which will affect how they regard themselves and their lives. All of that puts them at higher risk than older, more established people, even though anyone can experience depression at any time, depending on their circumstances and natural predisposition.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Obviously though, colleges are causing widespread depression by promulgating the idea that expression of emotions, forming an opinion, subjectivity, is invalid.

Instead of taking wild jabs at college in the dark, how about you enroll in a few courses and see what it's like? You will not, at all, find the idea that expression of emotions, forming opinions, and subjectivity are invalid. You just wont. If that was the case then there would not be a single college with a philosophy program, which tend to form a lot of opinions, be highly subjective, and known for stirring up some strong feelings. I would also have to completely redesign the approach of the philosophy club, as the president and I have been going the rout of discussing topics at meetings that will get emotional responses from people. If opinions weren't allowed you'd never hear a teacher ask they class what they think about something. There would also be no art programs or courses allowed if subjectivity was not allowed.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Obviously, when you don't know how subjectivity works, you shouldn't be commenting on things like depression.

Somebody who is apparently just making things up out of thin air probably shouldn't be commenting on things they apparently don't know much about.

I'm going to stick with the experts when looking for the source of depression.

 

[SkepticThinker]

How does subjectivity works? You can't say, so it's obvious that you don't know. Therefore you shouldn't be commenting on things like depression.

Depression is a mental health issue. Apparently you think you know better than all of the mental health professionals in the world. Yet you still can't cite your sources or even explain your argument beyond just repeating "I'm right and you're stupid" over and over again. There isn't anybody in the world who is going to find that persuasive.

This ^^^^

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Leaving aside the fact that you still haven't demonstrated a causal link behind the alleged correlation, where are you getting this idea that colleges are promulgating the idea that expressions of emotions, forming and opinion, and subjectivity are invalid? I've been closely affiliated with three different universities over a period of almost 20 years, and I've never witnessed what you're talking about.

I suppose what you're trying to imply is that the theory of evolution by natural selection somehow renders emotions, opinions, and subjectivity invalid. In that case I can easily and safely say that you are utterly mistaken. Biological theory is not directly connected to psychological theory, and evolutionary theory in biology says absolutely nothing about the subjective experience of individual organisms one way or the other. Perhaps you're getting it confused with evolutionary psychology, which is a field that exists but isn't something your average college student is likely to encounter, and which is often criticized even by other scientists as being overly reductionist in its assumptions.

There's a trend I've noticed, that every time I encounter a creationist who's arguing against evolutionary theory, it inevitably turns out they don't actually know anything about the theory they're disparaging, since they only read about it in creationist screeds. So there's a lot of distortion of very basic things, such as what exactly the theory consists of and how it is applied in the sciences. If you don't have a handle on that, you really can't form a coherent argument that people can engage with.

blablabla way to go delusional. Creationism is actually the only philosophy which validates both fact and opinion. So one can right see that you reject subjectivity by your rejection of creationism.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Somebody who is apparently just making things up out of thin air probably shouldn't be commenting on things they apparently don't know much about.

I'm going to stick with the experts when looking for the source of depression.

I will be using common sense, to say that rejection of subjectivity obviously contributes to depression.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I will be using common sense, to say that rejection of subjectivity obviously contributes to depression.

I have yet to see any common sense in your arguments on this topic.

Where does this supposed "knowledge about how things are chosen in the universe" come from? What knowledge? You never did bother to answer me.

 

[Vishvavajra]

blablabla way to go delusional.

So you're admitting defeat, then. Or that you're just a troll and not interested in actual debate. Either way, there is no way anybody is going to take you seriously if you behave in this way.

Responding to rational rebuttal with "Blah blah blah, you're stoopid!" is not regarded as a legitimate debating tactic by anyone over the age of ten.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

So you're admitting defeat, then. Or that you're just a troll and not interested in actual debate. Either way, there is no way anybody is going to take you seriously if you behave in this way.

Responding to rational rebuttal with "Blah blah blah, you're stoopid!" is not regarded as a legitimate debating tactic by anyone over the age of ten.

You use common discourse, then you can know how subjectivity works by looking at the structure of subjective statements. That you say not to know.....it indicates to me you don't want to know.

 

[Vishvavajra]

You use common discourse, then you can know how subjectivity works by looking at the structure of subjective statements. That you say not to know.....it indicates to me you don't want to know.

How do I use "common discourse"? How do I look at the structure of subjective statements?

Here: "Coffee tastes like charcoal." That's a subjective impression. Tell me what to do with it.

 

[Sapiens]

St

How do I use "common discourse"? How do I look at the structure of subjective statements?

Here: "Coffee tastes like charcoal." That's a subjective impression. Tell me what to do with it.

Stop drinking crappy coffee, try 100% Kona or Ka'u coffees and you'll never have that problem.