Evolution vs Creationism: Nonsynchronous Events

[CDWolfe]

I believe in both evolution and creationism. God created the universe first (Big Bang or otherwise), laying down the laws of nature, and putting everything in motion. Evolution happened as a result of the laws of nature, and over billions of years, we have what is present today. Two entirely different, nonsynchronous events.

For those that think Genesis is literal, you really need to wake up and realize that humankind could not comprehend the sciences back then, as we understand them today. What they perceived to be miracles or supernatural, we know to be a natural event or phenomenon. You are taking Moses' word that what he saw or was told is the absolute truth. One man, who was always alone when he had his "visions." Not a very credible source. Back then when people could not explain something, it HAD to be the will of god (gods), the devil, a demon, sorcery, etc.

So called "prophets" of the modern era also share the same circumstances with Moses; they are always alone when God "speaks" to them or gives them a vision. I could claim that God spoke to me and told me something and no one could challenge or refute it!

The point is, it doesn't have to be one or the other. As stated, I believe both happened.

 

[Skwim]

I believe in both evolution and creationism.

You probably mean "creation." "Creationism" is a religious conviction that pointedly denies evolution. The two are like water and oil, you can't mix them.

 

[CDWolfe]

You probably mean "creation." "Creationism" is a religious conviction that pointedly denies evolution. The two are like water and oil, you can't mix them.

Actually "creationists" don't agree 100% on their beliefs about creation. There are subtle differences. Some actually do agree with my stance, others refute it.

As a deist, I can completely see God creating the universe and the laws of nature, and evolution shaping life over the course of time.

...and I mix oil with water all the time when cooking spaghetti!

 

[Skwim]

In as much as this is the "Evolution Vs.Creationism" forum and you didn't qualify your "creationism," the reasonable assumption was that your take on of "creationism" is one that does stand in opposition to evolution, such as young earth creationism, gap creationism, or progressive creationism. But because you now imply that none of these represent your belief I have to ask how your creationism differs from evolution.

 

[Skeptisch]

God created the universe first...

…and who created God?

 

[tumbleweed41]

…and who created God?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Creationism is overtly tied to Biblical Literalism, at least in North America and Australia.

I prefer the deistic phrases "prime mover" or "first cause" when referring to the initiation of the Universe. (A topic totally unrelated to the Creationism vs. Evolution debate.)

 

[rusra02]

I believe in both evolution and creationism. God created the universe first (Big Bang or otherwise), laying down the laws of nature, and putting everything in motion. Evolution happened as a result of the laws of nature, and over billions of years, we have what is present today. Two entirely different, nonsynchronous events.

For those that think Genesis is literal, you really need to wake up and realize that humankind could not comprehend the sciences back then, as we understand them today. What they perceived to be miracles or supernatural, we know to be a natural event or phenomenon. You are taking Moses' word that what he saw or was told is the absolute truth. One man, who was always alone when he had his "visions." Not a very credible source. Back then when people could not explain something, it HAD to be the will of god (gods), the devil, a demon, sorcery, etc.

So called "prophets" of the modern era also share the same circumstances with Moses; they are always alone when God "speaks" to them or gives them a vision. I could claim that God spoke to me and told me something and no one could challenge or refute it!

The point is, it doesn't have to be one or the other. As stated, I believe both happened.

So...if evolution were true, then Adam was not created by God "out of dust from the ground and [God did not proceed] to blow into his nostrils the breath of life." Further, if evolution were true, Jehovah did not "plant a garden in Eden...and there..put the man whom he had formed." (Genesis 2:7,8) If evolution were true, then Jesus lied or was mistaken when he said that God created the first couple. Further, there would be no need for a ransom sacrifice for sins, if evolution were true. (John 3:16)
I believe that what is written in God's word the Bible is not constrained by the limitations of the people who wrote it nor the times when it was written. Rather, as the Bible itself states: "No prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit." (2 Peter 1:20, 21)
As to Moses alway being alone when he received visions or spoke to God, that simply is not the case. (Exodus 24:9-11) The entire nation was present when God came down upon Mount Sinai. (Exodus 19:16-19)

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[tumbleweed41]

So...if evolution were true, then Adam was not created by God "out of dust from the ground and [God did not proceed] to blow into his nostrils the breath of life." Further, if evolution were true, Jehovah did not "plant a garden in Eden...and there..put the man whom he had formed." (Genesis 2:7,8) If evolution were true, then Jesus lied or was mistaken when he said that God created the first couple. Further, there would be no need for a ransom sacrifice for sins, if evolution were true. (John 3:16)
I believe that what is written in God's word the Bible is not constrained by the limitations of the people who wrote it nor the times when it was written. Rather, as the Bible itself states: "No prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit." (2 Peter 1:20, 21)
As to Moses alway being alone when he received visions or spoke to God, that simply is not the case. (Exodus 24:9-11) The entire nation was present when God came down upon Mount Sinai. (Exodus 19:16-19)

Perfect example of Biblical Literalism taken to the extreme.

"If evolution then no Salvation"

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You are taking Moses' word that what he saw or was told is the absolute truth. One man, who was always alone when he had his "visions." Not a very credible source.

And you are assuming (a) the historicity of Moses, and (b) that the Moses pericopes accurately convey what occurred or what he perceived to have occurred.

I'm not too sure you should be posturing as a judge of credibility. :no:

 

[cataway]

You probably mean "creation." "Creationism" is a religious conviction that pointedly denies evolution. The two are like water and oil, you can't mix them.

actually you can mix oil and water, ya just need to add an egg to the mix.

i have watched evolutionist try to make evolution a LAW of science. yet i have yet to see the laws of evolution.
there are laws in procreation then there has to be laws to evolution. so fare the only thing that evolves is the thinking on what evolution is.

 

[tumbleweed41]

i have watched evolutionist try to make evolution a LAW of science.

Really? Example?

there are laws in procreation then there has to be laws to evolution. so fare the only thing that evolves is the thinking on what evolution is.

I don't think you understand how hypothesis, theory and law work in the scientific method.
(Laws of procreation? What?)

 

[Valjean]

Apart from the mathematics, you're wasting your time looking for "laws," cataway. I think your researches would be more fruitful if you just concentrated on the mechanisms.