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Evolution's impossible flaw

ID_Neon

Member
Evolution has a basic premise that is "progressive". It is not necessarily progressive in adaptation, or competition, or complexity, but it is progressive in one of these senses. Each of these have serious flaws but the principle flaw is the sense of progress. This simply is not evident in Nature, it also betray's man's mind in constructing evolutionary theory. Because a man may believe in progress, and specifically goes to war for that belief. So let's observe nature and look for conflict.

Nature at War, is a catchy phrase. We find in the imaginary world, nature is always at war. In fantasy we construct elves, spirits, treeants, evil and good manifested in characture.

In science fiction we find nature incredibly hostile to man, Avatar comes to mind. Mankind in his present mind is at war with nature, and nature can fight back. Although more biologically less spiritually.

Even in scientific worlds we describe the natural world as warlike. Dinosaurs fought, Ice Afe creatures were built for this fantasy war.

But in the end it was only fantasy.

The real world is not a nature at war, but in perfect harmony. And here evolutionary theory falls apart.

Adaptation necessarily requires some competition, but as we see with man's invention competition leads to Genocide, Nuclear weapons, and total war.

A world at war in nature would be incredibly hostile. Fighting to be the fittest, dogs would run wild in packs and eat men and kill animals other than themselves at all times.

Any Predator would kill for the sake of killing, preventing another predator from advancing.

Prey would be better guarded. Gazelle would be armored, elephants would raid the camps of lions and smash them to death. Herds would rampage the plain trampling all under foot.

Trees would ooze poison.

Every plant would have thorns.

Disease would spread uncontrollably.

There is absolutely no reason for the emmense cooperation we see in the natural world were evolution true.

The natural world is incredibly cooperative and we see this expressed in the food web, the web is fragile, yet every creature plays it's part for the WHOLE.

Every creature, except man.

Mankind runs around and plays it's part for its self.

These illogical operations can suggest only one thing. And it is the correct observation by thousands of generations.

Mankind is not of nature; is not a creature like any other in the natural world. Mankin alone progresses. And even that is an illusory progress.

But mankind can choose to take everything for himself. Where as every other creature must work as a part of a complete machine.

And most of all, nature does not tho it should, wipe out humanity in a torrent of angry animals, plants, and microbes.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Evolution has a basic premise that is "progressive".
That evolution is progressive? If so, where is this written? Or that the basic premise is progressive? If so, where is this written?
 
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ID_Neon

Member
I'm aware what you've covered, but now if it is not random it necessarily is progressive or regressive.

My point stands for argument:

Why is nature observed to be cooperative when evolution necessarily is competitive?
 

Photonic

Ad astra!
I'm aware what you've covered, but now if it is not random it necessarily is progressive or regressive.

My point stands for argument:

Why is nature observed to be cooperative when evolution necessarily is competitive?

Too bad your point is a non sequitur, because cooperation and competitiveness aren't opposites.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm aware what you've covered, but now if it is not random it necessarily is progressive or regressive.
Why?
Consider the behavior of gases. Random motion of molecules is a stochastic process
with emergent properties (eg, Boyle's Law), but it is neither regressive nor progressive.


Why is nature observed to be cooperative when evolution necessarily is competitive?
Cooperation can confer a competitive advantage.
 

ID_Neon

Member
Simple question, how is something which is adaptive and directional (more complex or less complex, more competitive or less competitive) not progressive or regressive?

I get it now...evolution is a great cover-up buried in dogma.

If the most basic and NECESSARY premise of evolutionary theory must be ignored, then there is no sense talking with any of you.
 

ID_Neon

Member
Too bad your point is a non sequitur, because cooperation and competitiveness aren't opposites.

Yes they are, they are mutually exclusive.

They are in fact incompatible by their very definition.

Feel free to explain how evolution is cooperative?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yes they are, they are mutually exclusive.
They are in fact incompatible by their very definition.
Feel free to explain how evolution is cooperative?
I can see that you're new here.....welcome aboard, btw.
This has been done to death, so you might not get adequate responses.
I strongly recommend a little reading about the topic first.
That way, you'll avoid arguments about moot topics like mutual exclusivity of cooperation & competition.
 

ID_Neon

Member
Why?
Consider the behavior of gases. Random motion of molecules is a stochastic process
with emergent properties (eg, Boyle's Law), but it is neither regressive nor progressive.



Cooperation can confer a competitive advantage.

So with what is the entire biomass of rth competing in order to cooperate with said biomass but continuously become more complex?

If the organisms compete with each other the system fails, this is an unarguable fact it'd be absurd to go over the reasons again.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Evolution has a basic premise that is "progressive". It is not necessarily progressive in adaptation, or competition, or complexity, but it is progressive in one of these senses. Each of these have serious flaws but the principle flaw is the sense of progress. This simply is not evident in Nature, it also betray's man's mind in constructing evolutionary theory. Because a man may believe in progress, and specifically goes to war for that belief. So let's observe nature and look for conflict.

Nature at War, is a catchy phrase. We find in the imaginary world, nature is always at war. In fantasy we construct elves, spirits, treeants, evil and good manifested in characture.

In science fiction we find nature incredibly hostile to man, Avatar comes to mind. Mankind in his present mind is at war with nature, and nature can fight back. Although more biologically less spiritually.

Even in scientific worlds we describe the natural world as warlike. Dinosaurs fought, Ice Afe creatures were built for this fantasy war.

But in the end it was only fantasy.

The real world is not a nature at war, but in perfect harmony. And here evolutionary theory falls apart.

Adaptation necessarily requires some competition, but as we see with man's invention competition leads to Genocide, Nuclear weapons, and total war.

A world at war in nature would be incredibly hostile. Fighting to be the fittest, dogs would run wild in packs and eat men and kill animals other than themselves at all times.

Any Predator would kill for the sake of killing, preventing another predator from advancing.

Prey would be better guarded. Gazelle would be armored, elephants would raid the camps of lions and smash them to death. Herds would rampage the plain trampling all under foot.

Trees would ooze poison.

Every plant would have thorns.

Disease would spread uncontrollably.

There is absolutely no reason for the emmense cooperation we see in the natural world were evolution true.

The natural world is incredibly cooperative and we see this expressed in the food web, the web is fragile, yet every creature plays it's part for the WHOLE.

Every creature, except man.

Mankind runs around and plays it's part for its self.

These illogical operations can suggest only one thing. And it is the correct observation by thousands of generations.

Mankind is not of nature; is not a creature like any other in the natural world. Mankin alone progresses. And even that is an illusory progress.

But mankind can choose to take everything for himself. Where as every other creature must work as a part of a complete machine.

And most of all, nature does not tho it should, wipe out humanity in a torrent of angry animals, plants, and microbes.

Re-posted to http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/games-pics-jokes-stories/124318-if-why.html
 

ID_Neon

Member
Nature does not behave as a gas, btw, it either has a direction or it doesn't. Gasses exert pressure in all directions with equal probability as I asked.

Do unadaptive organisms have equal probability of survival?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So with what is the entire biomass of rth competing in order to cooperate with said biomass but continuously become more complex?
I don't buy the argument that complexity continuously increases anyway.
But if it did, that wouldn't be inconsistent with evolution.

If the organisms compete with each other the system fails, this is an unarguable fact it'd be absurd to go over the reasons again.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but it would really help to study system stability before making such claims.
I don't plan to present a lecture series on basic probabilistic systems analysis.
Just trying to help here before I bow out.
(There are other threads where I feel the need to be really annoying.)
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
What is your source of this misinformation?

Can you find me 1 peer reviewed article on biological evolution that claims that the basic premise of evolution is "progress"?
No answer?

Then the entire "premise" of the OP is flawed and based on misinformation and an ignorance of basic biology.
 

ID_Neon

Member
And don't give me a bunch of crap about stochastic systems, not that they are not pertinent but rather that you have to show a logical correlation to the 3 problems and how it brings them into logical
Harmony
 
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