Existence vs Real

[The Sum of Awe]

Can something exist and not be real? Can something be real but not exist?

Continuation from the debate in "Is anything real?" but anyone is free to join in.

 

[Quintessence]

I can't say I personally distinguish between the two terms, but am curious how others are doing so.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Everything exists but nothing is real. At least, that's kind of how I see it. I do distinguish subtle differences between the two terms, although they're practically interchangeable.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Can something exist and not be real? Can something be real but not exist?

Continuation from the debate in "Is anything real?" but anyone is free to join in.

Like atoms and form comprised of atoms?

 

[Sunstone]

Can something exist and not be real? Can something be real but not exist?

Continuation from the debate in "Is anything real?" but anyone is free to join in.

I tend to avoid using the word "real" except in sentences like, "I had a real good time wanking last night, especially since I really, really do a much better job wanking than that imposture, Badran." That's because the term "real" comes loaded with so much baggage that it's ambiguous at best, and vague most often.

Exist can also be a problematic word.

 

[Willamena]

I think it is just semantics, no offense.

If something is not real, it can only exist by something that is real (for example a book is real, but never took place in real life, it never really happened. And so the book exists, but the event never really took place, the event never existed beyond the book that portrays it.

I understand, but in an attempt to distinguish existence you fall back on reality. It'll always be the place to fall back, because it's where we rest. I'm going to pursue more semantics.

Consider that earlier you said, and we all do, that Darth Vadar only exists as a character in a book. What is so "only" about that existence?--It's an existence, but it's inferior. It's "only" a character, not real.

So what does reality add to existence in your words, in your sentence, in your way of thinking and in your world picture?

 

[ametist]

Everything is real. Some that are done in the higher collaboration level are more real. All things that are real or less real among their observers exists.
Things that dont exist are not known and no observer has its knowledge so they are not in vicinity of being real or less real.
Fairies are real to creator(ultimate collaborator in making of things), to some kids and to all observers sharing that reality and fairies exist in this regard.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I understand, but in an attempt to distinguish existence you fall back on reality. It'll always be the place to fall back, because it's where we rest. I'm going to pursue more semantics.

Consider that earlier you said, and we all do, that Darth Vadar only exists as a character in a book. What is so "only" about that existence?--It's an existence, but it's inferior. It's "only" a character, not real.

So what does reality add to existence in your words, in your sentence, in your way of thinking and in your world picture?

The only thing that exists of Vader is his character, the only thing that is real of Vader is his character.

I don't think reality adds to existence but is a required feature of something that exists, the two cannot be separated, something that exists has to be real and vice versa.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The only thing that exists of Vader is his character, the only thing that is real of Vader is his character.
I don't think reality adds to existence but is a required feature of something that exists, the two cannot be separated, something that exists has to be real and vice versa.

Both you and Willamena make good points, yet as well note the physical mediums that carry Vader. The cameras, the film, dvds, cds, costumes, actors and such bringing substance that solidifys and maintains Vaders persona and presence.

Yes you won't find an actual Vader anywhere from what is on the screen in the actual world, yet there is a medium in which reality plays a role in it's manifestation and physical substance for as long as it lasts.

That can really take you down the rabbit hole for a bit methinks. . ;0)

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Real is just a philosophical oppinion.
It is real substance, but our perceptions are faulty and thus the appearance of the world is unreal.

How can you say for sure which is which.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Everything exists but nothing is real.

Hows that work, then?

I do distinguish subtle differences between the two terms, although they're practically interchangeable.

They're "practically interchangeable", but you say that everything exists while nothing is real? Ok, let's try this-

"Everything exists and nothing is real"

Now let's interchange them-

"Everything is real and nothing exists".

Look about right?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Now let's interchange them-

"Everything is real and nothing exists".

Look about right?

The latter here can be best applied by watching the images from an early film from the 1800s and applying the aforementioned to the images of everyone at the time.


Earliest surviving film and sound recording 1888 - YouTube

The paradox clears in light of the images. Everythings real and nothing exists.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

The latter here can be best applied by watching the images from an early film from the 1800s and applying the question to the images of everyone there.


[youtube]myQpkIlv_lw[/youtube]
Earliest surviving film and sound recording 1888 - YouTube

The paradox clears.

I'm afraid I don't follow. It also seems you're not seeing my point. If "everything exists and nothing is real", but "real" and "exists" are interchangeable, then it seems like we should be able to say that "everything is real and nothing exists"... But then, this is an explicit contradiction of the original statement.

Not a good result.

 

[Tumah]

Can something exist and not be real? Can something be real but not exist?

Continuation from the debate in "Is anything real?" but anyone is free to join in.

The pink polka dotted flowers that you have decorating you wings exists in my imagination. But I don't think its real...

Is it?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The pink polka dotted flowers that you have decorating you wings exists in my imagination. But I don't think its real...

Is it?

The thought and idea of them is real, is it not? Nothing beyond that of them exists.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Hows that work, then?


They're "practically interchangeable", but you say that everything exists while nothing is real? Ok, let's try this-

"Everything exists and nothing is real"

Now let's interchange them-

"Everything is real and nothing exists".

Look about right?

Maybe I should have said that they're interchangeable in common parlance.

And let me reverse my saying: Everything exists, but nothing is real.

 

[Tumah]

The thought and idea of them is real, is it not? Nothing beyond that of them exists.

That's what I'm saying. I have "real" thoughts in my head however you define thought. But the image that I hold there does not actually exist.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

And let me reverse my saying: Everything exists, but nothing is real.

Ok, but what is this even supposed to mean? Is there an interpretation such that its not just plainly false (i.e. everything exists, including things which do not)?

 

[crossfire]

Existence: has "stepped forth" from potentiality and can interact with other potentialities that have "stepped forth" from potentiality. (actualized potentiality--emphasis on action.)

Real: both actualized potentialities and unactualized potentialities. (With unactualized potentialities the emphasis is on inactive/passive.)

This is only my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Willamena]

The only thing that exists of Vader is his character, the only thing that is real of Vader is his character.

I don't think reality adds to existence but is a required feature of something that exists, the two cannot be separated, something that exists has to be real and vice versa.

Fair enough: two words that mean the same thing. But if a day comes when you do notice a different meaning for each in the way you use them in sentences, do note it.