Exodus is one of the most spectacular event in Bible and I wanted to look it through archeological evidence and I found many interesting things that I wanted to share with you guys. First of all acording Bible Exodus happened around 14/15 century BCE and there are interesting finds from that period.
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Exodus Archeology Evidence
- Thread starter Mrpp
- Start date
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
See if you can find an online copy of Smithsonian Magazine 2008. I don't remember which month's edition, but one had tremendous archeological information that aligned with the Torah,
IMV. It's been at least 10 years since I discovered it.
Excellent. List two books that you've actually read.
Heyo
Veteran Member
"The consensus of modern scholars is that the Pentateuch does not give an accurate account of the origins of the Israelites, who appear instead to have formed as an entity in the central highlands of Canaan in the late second millennium BCE (around the time of the Late Bronze Age collapse) from the indigenous Canaanite culture.[1][2][3] Most modern scholars believe that some elements in the story of the Exodus might have some historical basis, but that any such basis has little resemblance to the story told in the Pentateuch.[4][5]" - The Exodus - Wikipedia
Tamino
Active Member
I am reluctant to open an unknown file, no offense.
By "interesting finds", are you speaking of Avaris? The expulsion of the Hyksos? The Expansion of Amenophis I into the Levante? Or is this about archaeology in Israel?
I studied Egyptology, the Biography of Ahmose, son of Ibana, was one of the texts we read in class and I have had the honor of meeting professor Bietak twice. The 17th and 18th Dynasties are some of my favorite areas of study.
So... If you need details or verification on any Egyptian sources, please feel free to ask.
I don't know of anything that would support a literal reading of the Exodus, though.
Just lots of bits and pieces that may have influenced that story...
Tamino
Active Member
Those chariot wheels?
Fake News In Biblical Archaeology
 In a world of fake news and internet hoaxes it’s important to carefully check your sources before you inadvertently spread misinformation. The world of archaeology is no exception to sensationali…
biblearchaeologyreport.com
Audie
Veteran Member
Except it's not fair to say " even" Christian based.Those chariot wheels?
Even Christian-biased scholars don't support those...Fake News In Biblical Archaeology
 In a world of fake news and internet hoaxes it’s important to carefully check your sources before you inadvertently spread misinformation. The world of archaeology is no exception to sensationali…
Tamino
Active Member
Why? They would have a motive to support anything that proves their holy book. If they don't, that's a clear warning sign that it's probably fake
- You single out "Christian" despite the fact that Exodus ih Hebrew scripture.
- You tell me that to reject the exodus narrative as high fidelity history is to cast Hebrew scripture as fake.
Tamino
Active Member
I was referring to a specific Christian page I linked (Fake News In Biblical Archaeology)
- these specific people are, by their own report, Christians who are trying to point out historical reliability of the bible:
Uuhm no? That was not my intention. I was trying to show that the report of chariot wheels in the Red Sea is fake. Hebrew scripture is not historical reality... But that doesn't mean it's fake, just means it's legend.
Audie
Veteran Member
Of course. But itsvunfair and untrue to say that
all will be biased to see things that are not there.
The American grand canyon, or that syncline formation
in Turkry ( see " Noah's ark park) are only seen as flood- evidence by idiots.
I talked to (educated) Christians while at NYU
trying to figure out their religion.
I'd say none such as they would display the gross
abandonment of integrity you describe.
It was more like that various bible stories clearly
do not match facts...
And that their faith is in God, not their own understanding.
Nothing there with which I'd find fault.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
IMV, it's not meant to be literal, but a single story compiled to preserve multiple stories of how modern man came up out of Africa to migrate across the globe. It's enhanced, expounded, punctuated with miracles and awe to preserve the root and the incredible achievement itself.
Historians didn't believed in Jesus or David exsiststed now historians are gradually are starting to change minds. Instead of following simply opinions you should focus on facts of the case.
Tamino
Active Member
Soooo, which facts are we talking about?
have you read my file?
And that's also true about "Noah's flood" because of the prior mythology that wound up in the Bible.
One of my favorite examples is Yam Suph (Reed Sea) which according to one study could naturally have provided a path of escape through a natural cause, "wind setdown" So presuming there was an individual now called Moses and some sort of escape, no miracle was required.
Tamino
Active Member
I wasn't sure if I can trust it
Tamino
Active Member
OK so I checked the file and it didn#t explode in my face.
@Mrpp you raise an interesting interpretation of the Amarna letters, but they don't quite match what I've seen before (my most recent sources being Aidan Dodson's "Amarna Sunrise" and Dominic Perry's History of Egyot podcasts) - I will review these in light of your ideas and let you know what I think.
However, one thing that I noticed is that you bring forward Amenhotep III as the Pharao of the Exodus, and his son Thutmosis as the firstborn heir who died in the 10th plague.
Have you considered that the timeline does not match? Prince Thutmosis died around the first jubilee in year 30 of his father's reign. Amenhotep ruled another 8 years after this jubilee, well documented by dated documents and large-scale building projects. According to Exodus, the pharao would have died in the Red Sea shortly after the death of his son.
There is no indication of a serious crisis, just the opposite: the rule of Amenhotep III is considered the golden age of the 18th dynasty. The only less attested part of his reign is between years 11 and 20, there's some circumstantial evidence of a plague hitting Egypt in this time. But it's again 10 years too early to fit the Exodus timeline.
On the other hand, I fully agree with you in that the semitic migration into the eastern delta, the Hyksos-era as well as the taking of slaves/prisoners by the earlier 18th dynasty kings are all elements that show a historical base of the Exodus narrative.
But I would still insist that we are looking at bits and pieces from collective memories, that only at a later date were formed into one coherent narrative.
Just, for example, consider the Exodus story of how the Isrealites became slaves in Egypt:
They enter the country peacefully, being invited by Joseph and his king. they multiply inside the country, are considered a threat and get more and more enslaved.
Compare that to the historical development: They migrate - perhaps peacefully? - into the eastern delta some time in the late Middle Kingdom - so far, so good. Then they become the leading power of northern Egypt and even Rulers during the Hyksos time. (they become powerful, like in the bible, but the consequence is not enslavement, but rule!)
Then they are pushed out by the Theban rulers, the founders of the 18th dynasty (they are not fleeing slaves, they are losing a war).
And then, as the 18th dynasty gains power, the pharaos lead campaigns into the Levant and take prisoners back to Egypt - which is a storyline that does not show up in Hebrew scripture at all.
If the story of Joseph and the tribes settling in Egypt is correct, then we're looking at the Hyksos era. But if the story of being slaves in Egypt is right, that fits with 18th dynasty prisoners-of-war.
So the Hebrew narrative kinda conflates the two and thus misses the Hyksos leaving and the prisoners entering the country. So how would you explain that?
@Mrpp you raise an interesting interpretation of the Amarna letters, but they don't quite match what I've seen before (my most recent sources being Aidan Dodson's "Amarna Sunrise" and Dominic Perry's History of Egyot podcasts) - I will review these in light of your ideas and let you know what I think.
However, one thing that I noticed is that you bring forward Amenhotep III as the Pharao of the Exodus, and his son Thutmosis as the firstborn heir who died in the 10th plague.
Have you considered that the timeline does not match? Prince Thutmosis died around the first jubilee in year 30 of his father's reign. Amenhotep ruled another 8 years after this jubilee, well documented by dated documents and large-scale building projects. According to Exodus, the pharao would have died in the Red Sea shortly after the death of his son.
There is no indication of a serious crisis, just the opposite: the rule of Amenhotep III is considered the golden age of the 18th dynasty. The only less attested part of his reign is between years 11 and 20, there's some circumstantial evidence of a plague hitting Egypt in this time. But it's again 10 years too early to fit the Exodus timeline.
On the other hand, I fully agree with you in that the semitic migration into the eastern delta, the Hyksos-era as well as the taking of slaves/prisoners by the earlier 18th dynasty kings are all elements that show a historical base of the Exodus narrative.
But I would still insist that we are looking at bits and pieces from collective memories, that only at a later date were formed into one coherent narrative.
Just, for example, consider the Exodus story of how the Isrealites became slaves in Egypt:
They enter the country peacefully, being invited by Joseph and his king. they multiply inside the country, are considered a threat and get more and more enslaved.
Compare that to the historical development: They migrate - perhaps peacefully? - into the eastern delta some time in the late Middle Kingdom - so far, so good. Then they become the leading power of northern Egypt and even Rulers during the Hyksos time. (they become powerful, like in the bible, but the consequence is not enslavement, but rule!)
Then they are pushed out by the Theban rulers, the founders of the 18th dynasty (they are not fleeing slaves, they are losing a war).
And then, as the 18th dynasty gains power, the pharaos lead campaigns into the Levant and take prisoners back to Egypt - which is a storyline that does not show up in Hebrew scripture at all.
If the story of Joseph and the tribes settling in Egypt is correct, then we're looking at the Hyksos era. But if the story of being slaves in Egypt is right, that fits with 18th dynasty prisoners-of-war.
So the Hebrew narrative kinda conflates the two and thus misses the Hyksos leaving and the prisoners entering the country. So how would you explain that?
Tamino
Active Member
Oh, and I just noticed that we have another mismatch in the timeline... if the Israelites escape Egypt at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III and then start taking over their promised land according to the Amarna letters, your god has miraculously shrunken their 40 year desert wanderings to less than twenty. (The start of their desert trip would have to coincide with the death of Amenhotep III if he was the famous exodus pharao. His son Akhenaten ruled 17 years, and Amarna fell into ruins very shortly after his death, so the Amarna correspondence cannot be younger than this.)
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