Exodus Archeology Evidence

[gnostic]

The second exodus starts with the New Kingdom of Rameses. I believe the "dwellings of the children of Israel lived in Egypt were 430 years" refers to this period, starting approximately 1550BCE, where Egypt, ruled by Egyptians, effectively controlled the Levant and Canaan.

Reviewing here.

Ramesses II, was the 3rd pharaohs of the 19th dynasty, ruling from 1279 to 1213 BCE.

Ramesses didn’t and couldn’t have reigned in 1550 BCE.

Second. As to the “430 years”.

The children of Israel, usually referred to descendants of Jacob, and Jacob was named Israel, in one of chapters in Genesis, where Jacob wrestled with angel (32:22-32).

It would not be possible for the timeline between Jacob (with family, migrating to Egypt at age 130, and died at 147) and Moses (at age 80) leaving Egypt from Rameses (Exodus 12:37), to be 430 years. It would be impossible.

Why I say that, you might ask.

Back in 2008, when I was still working on my website Dark Mirrors of Heaven in 2008, I had work out the age of Jacob when his sons were born, especially Levi (Moses at 82, from Genesis 29:34). That, plus Exodus 6:16, Levi’s age 137, provide just enough information to work out what age Levi was, when they started living in Egypt (130 - 82 = 48 years, Levi‘s age).

So Levi has been living in Egypt for 89 years. As Genesis 46 doesn’t list Jochebed as one of the 70 people brought with Jacob, then she must been born in Egypt.

As Jochebed being both daughter of Levi and mother of Moses (Exodus 6:20), then she have to be between 302 and 350, when she give birth to Moses, if we were to believe this “430 years”.

Highly unlikely, don’t you think?

 

[GoodAttention]

Reviewing here.

Ramesses II, was the 3rd pharaohs of the 19th dynasty, ruling from 1279 to 1213 BCE.

Ramesses didn’t and couldn’t have reigned in 1550 BCE.

Second. As to the “430 years”.

The children of Israel, usually referred to descendants of Jacob, and Jacob was named Israel, in one of chapters in Genesis, where Jacob wrestled with angel (32:22-32).

It would not be possible for the timeline between Jacob (with family, migrating to Egypt at age 130, and died at 147) and Moses (at age 80) leaving Egypt from Rameses (Exodus 12:37), to be 430 years. It would be impossible.

Why I say that, you might ask.

Back in 2008, when I was still working on my website Dark Mirrors of Heaven in 2008, I had work out the age of Jacob when his sons were born, especially Levi (Moses at 82, from Genesis 29:34). That, plus Exodus 6:16, Levi’s age 137, provide just enough information to work out what age Levi was, when they started living in Egypt (130 - 82 = 48 years, Levi‘s age).

So Levi has been living in Egypt for 89 years. As Genesis 46 doesn’t list Jochebed as one of the 70 people brought with Jacob, then she must been born in Egypt.

As Jochebed being both daughter of Levi and mother of Moses (Exodus 6:20), then she have to be between 302 and 350, when she give birth to Moses, if we were to believe this “430 years”.

Highly unlikely, don’t you think?

Thanks for your reply, I’ll answer the first part which is the 11 pharaohs are of the Rameside period of 1269bce to 1069bce. All these pharoahs were children of their predecessor, even if their royal names were different.

Regarding the 430 years, this is independent to Moses and talks specifically of the “dwellings” meaning homes. These were built in the preceding Hyksos period, and “dwelt” in during the New Kingdom period by the descendants of Jacob (many generations later). The bricks and straw story relates to this.

My opinion purposefully ignores calculating the age of Moses linearly. This applies to Aaron also. I think God’s staff allows them to do this, but I’ll explain more as soon as I can.

 

[River Sea]

@River Sea

i forgot to say that among the social interactions or exchanges between Egypt and the Levant (eg the Amorites (eg Mari, Emar), Ugarit, Phoenicia, Canaan), from the 2nd millennium BCE, Egypt did adopted some of West Semitic religion, brought in by the Amorites and the Hyksos, who invaded & migrated, and settled in parts of northeast Egypt.

most obvious are the Semitic goddesses that were worshipped by Egyptians were Asherah (Athirat), Astarte (ʿAṯtart), and Anat. In Egypt, the Amorites arrived and established the 14th dynasty, before the arrivals of the Hyksos (15th & 16th dynasties). These goddesses remained popular in Egypt, during the New Kingdom period (18th, 19th & 20th dynasties), and even later during the Iron Age.

@gnostic

What was adopted compared to borrowing loanwords, or would adopted be the same as borrowing loanwords, or is adopted further than borrowing loanwords because it's taking on religion vs. just using vocabularies to add to their vocabularies, because when was the word adopted, was it only in belief systems?

Example word: Goddess. I notice Hathor helps women give birth, yet Hathor was called Goddess, so would word: Goddess be adopting or borrowing the loanword when claiming helping give birth, and so word Goddess.

People are gods.

So would Goddess back when it meant the same as midwives today?

I'll go further: I notice religions are the same as cultures back when during kingdoms, and it continues more intertwined spirituality yet structures similar to kingdoms back when.

So how would adopting be compared to borrowing loanwords?

I'll look online. Hathor was during the Bronze age.

Hathor | Mother Goddess, Sky Goddess, Cow Goddess | Britannica

Hathor, in ancient Egyptian religion, goddess of the sky, of women, and of fertility and love. Hathor’s worship originated in early dynastic times (3rd millennium bce). The name Hathor means “estate of Horus” and may not be her original name. Her principal animal form was that of a cow, and she was

www.britannica.com

Hathor’s worship originated in early dynastic times (3rd millennium bce). The name Hathor means “estate of Horus” and may not be her original name. Her principal animal form was that of a cow, and she was strongly associated with motherhood.

@gnostic @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention
Question, so this will be in line with Exodus: Any similarity with Hathor with anyone who helped women give birth during Exodus? Any names for midwives during Exodus? Were there Goddess during Exodus, or only God, and if only God, how come?

 

[River Sea]

The bricks and straw story relates to this.

What plants did they use to make straw? Did they use lots of straw for fuel to burn bake bricks, or did they use less straw for mud bricks?

Were there any droughts that led to Exodus?

Was there any fire happening during the drought? If there were any fires, were the trees burned?

How did the fire from the drought affect the bricks?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala can correct me if I get this wrong.

I'm seeing if I can articulate @Bharat Jhunjhunwala understanding.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala thinks the trading happened way later after the Yadavas left Indus Valley during 1500 BCE.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala thinks it's 300 BCE when trading happened due to people returning back to Indus Valley?

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala Please correct me if I have this wrong.

Also, @Bharat Jhunjhunwala please help me with this and any question that @gnostic has so at least @gnostic can comprehend @Bharat Jhunjhunwala understanding; and yes, either agree or disagree, but at least comprehend @Bharat Jhunjhunwala understanding, and the area I'll see if I can articulate

Trade between Egypt and India was undertaken both by sea route and land route through Mesopotamiain the bronze age maybe since 3000 bce

 

[GoodAttention]

@gnostic

What was adopted compared to borrowing loanwords, or would adopted be the same as borrowing loanwords, or is adopted further than borrowing loanwords because it's taking on religion vs. just using vocabularies to add to their vocabularies, because when was the word adopted, was it only in belief systems?

Example word: Goddess. I notice Hathor helps women give birth, yet Hathor was called Goddess, so would word: Goddess be adopting or borrowing the loanword when claiming helping give birth, and so word Goddess.

People are gods.

So would Goddess back when it meant the same as midwives today?

I'll go further: I notice religions are the same as cultures back when during kingdoms, and it continues more intertwined spirituality yet structures similar to kingdoms back when.

So how would adopting be compared to borrowing loanwords?

I'll look online. Hathor was during the Bronze age.

Hathor | Mother Goddess, Sky Goddess, Cow Goddess | Britannica

Hathor, in ancient Egyptian religion, goddess of the sky, of women, and of fertility and love. Hathor’s worship originated in early dynastic times (3rd millennium bce). The name Hathor means “estate of Horus” and may not be her original name. Her principal animal form was that of a cow, and she was

www.britannica.com

Hathor’s worship originated in early dynastic times (3rd millennium bce). The name Hathor means “estate of Horus” and may not be her original name. Her principal animal form was that of a cow, and she was strongly associated with motherhood.

@gnostic @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention
Question, so this will be in line with Exodus: Any similarity with Hathor with anyone who helped women give birth during Exodus? Any names for midwives during Exodus? Were there Goddess during Exodus, or only God, and if only God, how come?

My understanding is, according the translated Exodus 1:15 there were 2 Hebrew midwives, Shiphrah and Puah, who are mentioned specifically as also being blessed to have "families of their own" in verse 21.

My personal opinion is Moses has 3 mothers, a Levite woman who birthed him, a Hebrew midwife (not his mother) who nursed him (Exodus 2:9), and Pharoah's daughter who raised him. This makes him Levite-Hebrew-Egyptian.

I don't know of Hathor, but according to Britannica it may not be her original name. Of interest to me, the name Puah I connect with the Tamil word puu, a single letter which means blossom, meaning more so the "opening" of flowers. It is also related to birth but again more specifically the "producing" of birth.

பூ​

pū 2. Birth; production; பிறப்பு.


Shiphrah I connect with the following, which I correlate with the first part of birth being when the "waters break" or gush out, as in the sentence "the water gushed through the sluices".

சீப்பு​

cīppu 5.Shutter of a sluice; மதகிலுள்ள அடைபலகை.Nāñ.


Put together of course we have the birthing process start to finish that midwives would be involved in.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It would not be possible for the timeline between Jacob (with family, migrating to Egypt at age 130, and died at 147) ...

Dying at "147" is literally formulaic.

Note the two sequences, i.e., 7 -> 5 -> 3 and 5 -> 6 -> 7

7 * 5^2 = 175 ::= lifespan of Abraham​

5 * 6^2 = 180 ::= lifespan of Isaac​

3 * 7^2 = 147 ::= lifespan on Jacob​

I'd love to know what the author/redactor was thinking ...

 

[GoodAttention]

Dying at "147" is literally formulaic.

Note the two sequences, i.e., 7 -> 5 -> 3 and 5 -> 6 -> 7

7 * 5^2 = 175 ::= lifespan of Abraham​

5 * 6^2 = 180 ::= lifespan of Isaac​

3 * 7^2 = 147 ::= lifespan on Jacob​

I'd love to know what the author/redactor was thinking ...

Obviously my opinion, for the patriarchs to descend on the left and add “God’s presence” on the right.

3 + 2 + 2 on the left, 2,1,2 on the right. A.

3 + 2 on the left, 2,1,1*,2 on the right. I.

3 on the left, 2,1,1,1*,2 on the right. Y/J.

 

[gnostic]

Dying at "147" is literally formulaic.

Note the two sequences, i.e., 7 -> 5 -> 3 and 5 -> 6 -> 7

7 * 5^2 = 175 ::= lifespan of Abraham​

5 * 6^2 = 180 ::= lifespan of Isaac​

3 * 7^2 = 147 ::= lifespan on Jacob​

I'd love to know what the author/redactor was thinking ...

The wonders of the number games.

I don’t usually give much thought on them, but ancient authors seemed to love patterns, whether it be numbers or other symbols.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Obviously my opinion, for the patriarchs to descend on the left and add “God’s presence” on the right.

3 + 2 + 2 on the left, 2,1,2 on the right. A.

3 + 2 on the left, 2,1,1*,2 on the right. I.

3 on the left, 2,1,1,1*,2 on the right. Y/J.

 

[River Sea]

3 + 2 + 2 on the left, 2,1,2 on the right. A.

3 + 2 on the left, 2,1,1*,2 on the right. I.

3 on the left, 2,1,1,1*,2 on the right. Y/J.

@GoodAttention
I don't know how to do this

 

[River Sea]

My understanding is the Wadi Hammamat had many mines, so perhaps the land was leased so another who had skills in mining would do the work.

@GoodAttention
Did any claim praise the Lord to whomever owns these mines? If so, what was their praise about? The Lord's owners of this land; did they reward many for their praises? If so, what rewards did they receive?

 

[Audie]

Reviewing here.

Ramesses II, was the 3rd pharaohs of the 19th dynasty, ruling from 1279 to 1213 BCE.

Ramesses didn’t and couldn’t have reigned in 1550 BCE.

Second. As to the “430 years”.

The children of Israel, usually referred to descendants of Jacob, and Jacob was named Israel, in one of chapters in Genesis, where Jacob wrestled with angel (32:22-32).

It would not be possible for the timeline between Jacob (with family, migrating to Egypt at age 130, and died at 147) and Moses (at age 80) leaving Egypt from Rameses (Exodus 12:37), to be 430 years. It would be impossible.

Why I say that, you might ask.

Back in 2008, when I was still working on my website Dark Mirrors of Heaven in 2008, I had work out the age of Jacob when his sons were born, especially Levi (Moses at 82, from Genesis 29:34). That, plus Exodus 6:16, Levi’s age 137, provide just enough information to work out what age Levi was, when they started living in Egypt (130 - 82 = 48 years, Levi‘s age).

So Levi has been living in Egypt for 89 years. As Genesis 46 doesn’t list Jochebed as one of the 70 people brought with Jacob, then she must been born in Egypt.

As Jochebed being both daughter of Levi and mother of Moses (Exodus 6:20), then she have to be between 302 and 350, when she give birth to Moses, if we were to believe this “430 years”.

Highly unlikely, don’t you think?

Exodus and flood don’t make it into and category of “ likely”.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Exodus and flood don’t make it into and category of “ likely”.

True if read as high fidelity history. It is, however, brilliant etiological Myth.

 

[Pogo]

True if read as high fidelity history. It is, however, brilliant etiological Myth.

Agreed, it is likely an etiological myth. Brilliant is rather an questionable opinion considering internal inconsistencies.

 

[gnostic]

Thanks for your reply, I’ll answer the first part which is the 11 pharaohs are of the Rameside period of 1269bce to 1069bce. All these pharoahs were children of their predecessor, even if their royal names were different.

Regarding the 430 years, this is independent to Moses and talks specifically of the “dwellings” meaning homes. These were built in the preceding Hyksos period, and “dwelt” in during the New Kingdom period by the descendants of Jacob (many generations later). The bricks and straw story relates to this.

My opinion purposefully ignores calculating the age of Moses linearly. This applies to Aaron also. I think God’s staff allows them to do this, but I’ll explain more as soon as I can.

What plants did they use to make straw? Did they use lots of straw for fuel to burn bake bricks, or did they use less straw for mud bricks?

Were there any droughts that led to Exodus?

Was there any fire happening during the drought? If there were any fires, were the trees burned?

How did the fire from the drought affect the bricks?

During the New Kingdom (especially 18th & 19th dynasties), mudbricks may have been used by ordinary subjects, to build their homes, but for construction of monumental buildings, like palaces, temples and tombs that were for Egypt’s rulers or priesthood, stone were used, not mudbricks. The New Kingdom didn’t build pyramids. Seti I & Ramesses II (19th dynasty), who have the city Pi-Ramesses (biblical Rameses) built, used rocks, not mudbricks. So that’s another history, that the Exodus got wrong.

During the Middle Kingdom (11th & 12th dynasties), rulers of this period used more mudbricks than quarried stones, including their pyramids.

 

[gnostic]

oh, I forgot.

The new capital city of Akhenaten (18th dynasty) - Amarna - mid-14th century BCE, have his builders to construct this city, mainly using mudbricks. Akhenaten’s reign was an exception.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Brilliant is rather an questionable opinion considering internal inconsistencies.

Your free to question what you wish. I only wish the questioning was substantive.

 

[GoodAttention]

@GoodAttention
Did any claim praise the Lord to whomever owns these mines? If so, what was their praise about? The Lord's owners of this land; did they reward many for their praises? If so, what rewards did they receive?

The time period would be circa 3000BCE, during the period of Narmer.

It is my theory that the Wadi Hammamat was "leased" to a foreign peoples (from the Indus Valley) to conduct mining activities, as well as the road through which trade occurred from the Red Sea into Egypt.

 

[GoodAttention]

During the New Kingdom (especially 18th & 19th dynasties), mudbricks may have been used by ordinary subjects, to build their homes, but for construction of monumental buildings, like palaces, temples and tombs that were for Egypt’s rulers or priesthood, stone were used, not mudbricks. The New Kingdom didn’t build pyramids. Seti I & Ramesses II (19th dynasty), who have the city Pi-Ramesses (biblical Rameses) built, used rocks, not mudbricks. So that’s another history, that the Exodus got wrong.

During the Middle Kingdom (11th & 12th dynasties), rulers of this period used more mudbricks than quarried stones, including their pyramids.

The story of straw and bricks precedes the Ramesside stories of plagues.

It would be pertinent to remember "Exodus" is the Greek/Latin translation of the Hebrew scripture for the "Book of Names".