-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
experiencing free will?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
Curious George
Veteran Member
I would suggest if you experience any sensation of ego ( as demonstrated in the sentence “I feel as though…), then you do in fact feel you have free will. Free will amounts to some degree of control possessed by a rational individual.I feel as though in my life I have next to zero free will
I feel that everything I do is predetermined and that I have no agency
What can I do to experience free will?
I want to experience the feeling of not being predetermined
Both the use of I and the qualified statement “next to zero” both contradict the sentiment that you feel you do not have free will.
I feel as though I have no control
Sure, I get to decide *how* things happen but I don't think I control *what* happens, or in what direction I go
I want to experience the feeling of free will
Curious George
Veteran Member
Does this mean you feel as though someone else is making choices for you or you feel that there is no choice?
I feel that there are no choices
I feel that I only get to decide how things happen, not what happens
Curious George
Veteran Member
But deciding is a choice. So it cannot feel like there are no choices.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding something
I mean to say that I feel that my free will is limited to deciding how things happen, not what happens
Not sure I understand the distinction in the highlighted section of your statement.
I mean that I don't make the actual decisions, or get to determine the direction
I feel as though I am limited to deciding how a predetermined thing plays out, to the details
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Free will doesn’t mean you are free to choose your circumstances, or to impose your will upon the world. It means you are free to choose how you respond to your circumstances; and while we do have some control over our actions, we are largely powerless over the results.
Yes
It's rather bleak I think
I would love to be able to feel a sense of control over myself
But such a sense would only be an illusion, I know that now
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I disagree. I think we can gain considerable control over ourselves, though doing so isn’t easy; but we can only ever gain limited control over the world around us, and the more we try to do this, the unhappier we often become. About the only thing in this world we can change, is ourselves. Doing so is no mean achievement.
Maybe the trick is to retreat into the world that one does have power over and forget about all that one cannot control?
Okay, here is how I experience free will, at least some times...
When I have a decision to make...pretty much any decision to make...I am aware that my subconscious mind either has or has not come to a decision...I am aware of that decision as an 'object' in my consciousness before I have consciously made a decision...(research shows that the subconscious mind makes our decision a detectable period of time before we make our decision/take action)...
So, I 'see' the decision, but I often have time to consider whether or not to accept that decision. Sometimes I accept the decision, sometimes I reject it, and choose another alternative course of action. Example: we decide we might want to go out to eat...what are the alternatives? Say, Little Saigon or Texas Road House. I'm feeling like Little Saigon, but Linn is leaning toward Texas Road House. We assess who has the heavier preference, but after further discussion/consideration, we agree on a third option not considered before: simply going home and having the leftovers we're already got waiting. I still really wanted to go to Little Saigon, and Linn really wanted the Road House...our original possible choices...our initial 'choices,' but we were not bound by those choices, and eventually selected something else.
Now, did we have free will or not? An argument could be constructed either way, that NO, our choices were set long before the actual circumstances that happened. Or, an argument could be constructed that YES, the fact that we had options available and did indeed face no constraints outside our own preferences...we could have as easily chosen otherwise...
When I have a decision to make...pretty much any decision to make...I am aware that my subconscious mind either has or has not come to a decision...I am aware of that decision as an 'object' in my consciousness before I have consciously made a decision...(research shows that the subconscious mind makes our decision a detectable period of time before we make our decision/take action)...
So, I 'see' the decision, but I often have time to consider whether or not to accept that decision. Sometimes I accept the decision, sometimes I reject it, and choose another alternative course of action. Example: we decide we might want to go out to eat...what are the alternatives? Say, Little Saigon or Texas Road House. I'm feeling like Little Saigon, but Linn is leaning toward Texas Road House. We assess who has the heavier preference, but after further discussion/consideration, we agree on a third option not considered before: simply going home and having the leftovers we're already got waiting. I still really wanted to go to Little Saigon, and Linn really wanted the Road House...our original possible choices...our initial 'choices,' but we were not bound by those choices, and eventually selected something else.
Now, did we have free will or not? An argument could be constructed either way, that NO, our choices were set long before the actual circumstances that happened. Or, an argument could be constructed that YES, the fact that we had options available and did indeed face no constraints outside our own preferences...we could have as easily chosen otherwise...
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Using free will is oftentimes like walking a maze. You'll hit deadends, but you go back and using what you've learned, make another choice of direction. The individual can get hard-headed and keep making the wrong choices over and over, but that, too, is done by free will. How long it takes, if ever, one gets out of that maze is up to their choices -- and others they meet on the way -- are they open to advice? Do they share their discoveries? Do they conduct themselves in a way others respond well to? Do they follow strong advice or flippant? There are many variables in utilizing free will. Most hidden in the undercurrents of choice.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
It’s okay to do that from time to time I think. But not all the time; even people who choose the monastic life have to interact with each other, and with the outside world occasionally. And I doubt many people are suited to the monastic life. But many people find spending some time each day in quiet contemplation, whether that be meditation or daydreaming or something else, helps them find some ease and comfort, to sustain them through the day.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
It's like living in a cage. I can do anything I want but not leave the cage. How big is the cage though?
Doing a bit of exploring, I discover that it's a lot bigger than I thought. There are things I am free to do but don't do. Nobody will stop me climbing on the roof of my house and jumping off, breaking both legs. I choose not to. I can join a church. Been there, done that, won't do it again, but I'm free to do it. My choice. There are things that I'm constrained from doing. I can't fly off the roof like Superman. But many things that seem impossible are really a choice. I don't have enough money to buy a Lamborghini sports car. I could work a lot of overtime and live at an extreme poverty level while I save up for one. I choose not to.
If the part of the cage is my fear, that can be overcome. The cage gets bigger.
And so on.
Doing a bit of exploring, I discover that it's a lot bigger than I thought. There are things I am free to do but don't do. Nobody will stop me climbing on the roof of my house and jumping off, breaking both legs. I choose not to. I can join a church. Been there, done that, won't do it again, but I'm free to do it. My choice. There are things that I'm constrained from doing. I can't fly off the roof like Superman. But many things that seem impossible are really a choice. I don't have enough money to buy a Lamborghini sports car. I could work a lot of overtime and live at an extreme poverty level while I save up for one. I choose not to.
If the part of the cage is my fear, that can be overcome. The cage gets bigger.
And so on.
Hmmm...I don't get to choose whether or not I get hungry, I only get to choose how to respond to that hunger, What exactly to eat and When exactly to eat it...and maybe I have less choices than others...does that mean I don't have free will?
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I think it means there are degrees of freedom
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Absolutely! Quiet self-reflection is one of the best ways to learn how to use free will. Personally, I call it my time for God to advise me -- unspoken -- through my sub-conscience. The choices in life, life itself, seems more simple and clear, and much, much less erratic. So much of what we stress over is irrelevant in the long view, so we need to learn to "let go and let God", which can be difficult to do, but always a choice.
Namaste