Experiencing God

[Sonofason]

Well I wouldn't ridicule anyone for their experiences.

I get that. And I imagine many wouldn't. But it's more than that. Maybe ridicule is the wrong word, or just one of many. I don't want to be disagreed with either on this. I don't desire an argument about it. It is not a question for debate. It is a sharing of an experience.

 

[Sunstone]

Have you ever been burned by a fire that wasn't there?
Have you ever had a light shined on you, but there was no light?
Have you ever heard a sound that you doubted was a real sound?

I'm not talking about dreams.

I know very well that you're not talking about dreams. However, it's simply a fact that the feeling something is real is created not by the fire that burns you, nor by the light that shines in your eyes, nor by the sound you hear, but by the way your brain processes sensory information. To deny that fact would be foolish. It is therefore conceivable that you could have an experience which was produced by your brain, but which seemed just as real as heat, light, or sound. The possibility of such being the case when it comes to mystical experiences cannot be rationally ruled out.

 

[Desert Snake]

I get that. And I imagine many wouldn't. But it's more than that. Maybe ridicule is the wrong word, or just one of many. I don't want to be disagreed with either on this. I don't desire an argument about it. It is not a question for debate. It is a sharing of an experience.

Theoretically people could do that in blue DIR's.

 

[psychoslice]

My so called enlightened experience was nothing to do with a god, it was beyond all that childish stuff. It was just a simple realization that I and everyone else is one in Consciousness, you can call this god, but there is no need to. The word god has been polluted over many years of beliefs and superstition, it has lost its value and therefore I don't like the word.

 

[Sunstone]

My so called enlightened experience was nothing to do with a god, it was beyond all that childish stuff. It was just a simple realization that I and everyone else is one in Consciousness, you can call this god, but there is no need to. The word god has been polluted over many years of beliefs and superstition, it has lost its value and therefore I don't like the word.

That's a good point. Not everyone who has such experience identifies them with an experience of deity, and whether or not they do seems to depend to some large extent on which culture they are from.

 

[Sonofason]

Same thing - same meaning.


Disrespect of people with other views.


On a debate site, people are obviously going to debate what you say.



*

It is not disrespectful to not share your experiences with others.
And it is not disrespectful to tell them why you won't.

Those verses are in the Bible because they are truth.
And I have no aversions to the truth.

 

[Sonofason]

I know very well that you're not talking about dreams. However, it's simply a fact that the feeling something is real is created not by the fire that burns you, nor by the light that shines in your eyes, nor by the sound you hear, but by the way your brain processes sensory information. To deny that fact would be foolish. It is therefore conceivable that you could have an experience which was produced by your brain, but which seemed just as real as heat, light, or sound. The possibility of such being the case when it comes to mystical experiences cannot be rationally ruled out.

Yet you never feel burned without the heat.
You never hear sound without the vibrating molecules that transmit the sound.
And you never experience God without experiencing God.
I'd say the human body usually functions pretty well.
We can, for the most part, trust our senses, especially when we know we have our senses.

 

[psychoslice]

That's a good point. Not everyone who has such experience identifies them with an experience of deity, and whether or not they do seems to depend to some large extent on which culture they are from.

Its funny, this also applies to the near death experience, most see what their beliefs or culture dictates, a Christian will see Jesus, a Hindu may see Krishna.

 

[Sonofason]

I know very well that you're not talking about dreams. However, it's simply a fact that the feeling something is real is created not by the fire that burns you, nor by the light that shines in your eyes, nor by the sound you hear, but by the way your brain processes sensory information. To deny that fact would be foolish. It is therefore conceivable that you could have an experience which was produced by your brain, but which seemed just as real as heat, light, or sound. The possibility of such being the case when it comes to mystical experiences cannot be rationally ruled out.

There is nothing mystical about God. God exists, just as you do.

 

[Sonofason]

My so called enlightened experience was nothing to do with a god, it was beyond all that childish stuff. It was just a simple realization that I and everyone else is one in Consciousness, you can call this god, but there is no need to. The word god has been polluted over many years of beliefs and superstition, it has lost its value and therefore I don't like the word.

The word God has lost it's value to you. But God has not lost value to many people including myself. I do not let God be polluted by men. I won't permit it in my life.

But I get that you don't like it. But since I do, that is the word I'll continue to use. That's fair, right?

 

[Whiterain]

There is nothing mystical about God. God exists, just as you do.

God is a military commander as well... The least favorable view.

Mystical, well that's a matter of interpretation.

 

[psychoslice]

There is nothing mystical about God. God exists, just as you do.

I think that's too arrogant, you know very well that God cannot be proven, and because of this he is a mystery, which only a mystical mind can realize.

 

[InChrist]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others. It ought not surprise me however, as I too have had "spiritual" experiences that I just will not share with anyone. I gather that the telling of such experiences puts one at risk of throwing one's pearls to the swine.

My experience of God has actually brought me to a point where I no longer require faith to believe in God. I am absolutely certain of his existence and presence in my life.

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

I share my spiritual experiences as I feel led to by the Holy Spirit. It really makes no difference to me one way or another how others respond. I may prefer that their response if positive, but either way it does not change what I've experienced and know to be true concerning God.

I didn't do anything that enabled me to invoke God's attention other than believe and agree with God concerning my need of a Savior. I am also absolutely sure of God's existence and presence, but since I can not physically see Him at this point I do walk by faith not by sight.

 

[Sonofason]

That's a good point. Not everyone who has such experience identifies them with an experience of deity, and whether or not they do seems to depend to some large extent on which culture they are from.

No, it's not a good point. There are experiences that people have. There is nothing to show that the experiences that some people have who do not associate God with their experience are experiencing anything like that experienced by those who do associate God with their experiences. They could be completely different experiences.

 

[Sunstone]

Yet you never feel burned without the heat.
You never hear sound without the vibrating molecules that transmit the sound.
And you never experience God without experiencing God.
I'd say the human body usually functions pretty well.
We can, for the most part, trust our senses, especially when we know we have our senses.

With respect, I don't think you've read up on psychology if you truly are of the impression that people don't feel burned without heat, don't hear sound without molecules vibrating, or -- possibly -- don't experience deity without deity. Psychology has very well documented that people do, in fact, sometimes feel they are burning when there's no fire, or sometimes hear noises that "aren't there". You can be as convinced as you want to be that your experiences were experiences of deity, but you will have to do better than you've been doing if you wish to provide compelling evidence of such. Your current line of reasoning does not provide that evidence.

 

[Sonofason]

My so called enlightened experience was nothing to do with a god, it was beyond all that childish stuff. It was just a simple realization that I and everyone else is one in Consciousness, you can call this god, but there is no need to. The word god has been polluted over many years of beliefs and superstition, it has lost its value and therefore I don't like the word.

If it is an experience of God, you need to acknowledge that it is an experience of God. Why take such an experience away from God. God gives us a gift, and we should spoil it, and chalk it up to humanity? God forbid.

 

[Desert Snake]

The word God has lost it's value to you. But God has not lost value to many people including myself. I do not let God be polluted by men. I won't permit it in my life.

But I get that you don't like it. But since I do, that is the word I'll continue to use. That's fair, right?

The title 'G-d' means different things to different people. I had a discussion a while back on RF, I literally didn't know what the person was talking about, but we were both using the word 'god' or Deity, turns out we had totally different definitions for the term, and both of us were pretty incredulous that the other was associating the definition we each were using with the deity concept we have. That was also the time that I realized that many or most people were using the title differently from me, talk about a surprise.
ps I had always before that just thought people were being descriptive or something, anyways I didn't really realize how much of a different deity idea it was.

 

[Sonofason]

I think that's too arrogant, you know very well that God cannot be proven, and because of this he is a mystery, which only a mystical mind can realize.

I cannot prove God, but God can prove Himself, and He has to me.

 

[Sunstone]

There is nothing mystical about God. God exists, just as you do.

To assert such a claim without compelling evidence is irrational. I am beginning to suspect you are not really ready yet for a genuine conversation on this topic. Perhaps it was premature of you to bring it up.

 

[Sonofason]

I share my spiritual experiences as I feel led to by the Holy Spirit. It really makes no difference to me one way or another how others respond. I may prefer that their response if positive, but either way it does not change what I've experienced and know to be true concerning God.

I didn't do anything that enabled me to invoke God's attention other than believe and agree with God concerning my need of a Savior. I am also absolutely sure of God's existence and presence, but since I can not physically see Him at this point I do walk by faith not by sight.

So you believed first, and then you experienced. Is that right?
The question that follows would be more difficult. What caused you to believe?