Extraterrestrial UFOs: Yes? No? Maybe?

[Corvus]

why do you think a visiting alien species would not want to introduce itself? Is it the old "waiting until we get advanced enough" idea?

I can suggest a few possible reasons.
1. Alien visitors are here to examine us objectively, if they revealed themselves this would invalidate their scientific objectivity.
2. Alien visitors have a covert agreement with certain bodies/agencies of government not to openly reveal themselves, as part of some clandestine arrangement.
3. Alien visitors are here for unknown reasons of their own which may have little to do with us directly, we not being the subject of interest.
4. Alien visitors do not wish to engage with our governments and will only communicate with a single global executive, that represents all humans.
5. Alien visitors have an agreement amongst themselves and possibly other space faring species that strictly prohibits interference in the development of emerging civilizations.
6. Alien visitors are here to monitor other alien species also here.
7. Alien visitors are planning a surprise invasion and are acting covertly in order to maintain shock value.
8. A combination of two or more of the above reasons.


I think 1 is the most rational.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I can suggest a few possible reasons.
1. Alien visitors are here to examine us objectively, if they revealed themselves this would invalidate their scientific objectivity.
2. Alien visitors have an covert agreement with certain bodies/agencies of government not to openly reveal themselves, as part of some clandestine arrangement.
3. Alien visitors are here for unknown reasons of their own which may have little to do with us directly, we not being the subject of interest.
4. Alien visitors do not wish to engage with our governments and will only communicate with a single global executive, that represents all humans.
5. Alien visitors have an agreement amongst themselves and possibly other space faring species that strictly prohibits interference in the development of emerging civilizations.
6. Alien visitors are here to monitor other alien species here.
7. Alien visitors are planning a surprise invasion and are acting covertly in order to maintain shock value.
8. A combination of two or more of the above reasons.

Damn Corvus, you have clearly thought about this a lot! Are you a Raëlian? Again, no ridicule intended, serious question.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, experts have said, if there are aliens, they would come here.

That depends.

First is the insane distances that provides one major hurdle, when you consider that light itself is figuratively slow as a snail in the cosmos.

Second is looking at ourselves and where we are since the universe began from the big bang. Who's to say that alien life is far more technologicaly advanced than our own when you consider that other worlds are just as susceptible and prone to events like mass extinctions, or evolutionary limitations in various environments.

Third is our location. It seems we are in a "rural" area of our Galaxy. Aside from a few "close" systems there's not too many viable neighborhoods around that can potentially accommodate our definition of life.

I suppose aliens would at least check us out like we check out other worlds if they could, but even the closest indicator of more advanced capabilities than our own like the possibility of a discovered "Dyson sphere" is spotty at best.

I'm pretty sure we already possess the technology to know if we are at least being watched in terms of visitations.

I think there is life, but not the means to determine life outside our solar system like we are facing ourselves. I would take someday there could be visitation and contact, just not right now.

 

[Corvus]

Damn Corvus, you have clearly thought about this a lot! Are you a Raëlian? Again, no ridicule intended, serious question.

No not a Raelian. In fact I had to look it up, although I have heard the name before, and seen their symbols before.
I have given the matter (UFOs) some thought, it's a subject I am keenly interested in, since it is interconnected with cosmology.

 

[Corvus]

I think there is life, but not the means to determine life outside our solar system like we are facing ourselves. I would take someday there could be visitation and contact, just not right now.

The larger moons of Jupiter, Ganymede and Europa, possess liquid water sub crust oceans. Which is promising.

 

[columbus]

3. Alien visitors are here for unknown reasons of their own which may have little to do with us directly, we not being the subject of interest.

This is the most likely one to me.
Alien beings, that far advanced, would have so little in common with us that the idea that we are interesting to them seems a little egocentric.
I doubt that we would even understand their motivation or interests.
Tom

 

[Corvus]

This is the most likely one to me.
Alien beings, that far advanced, would have so little in common with us that the idea that we are interesting to them seems a little egocentric.
I doubt that we would even understand their motivation of interests.
Tom

I also give it a high probability. Certainly for the oldest most advanced civilization/species type.

 

[ChristineM]

The chances of alien life existing in this universe are very high, consider the size, at least a hundred billion galaxies made of around 200 billion stars or more. By current findings, many with solar systems. If only, say, 0.0000000000001% of them have life sustaining planets that's thousands of billions of planets containing life.

The chances of alien life on any of these planets developing intelligence. Of the roughly 3 or 4 billion species that have exited on earth only one has yet gained the intelligence to develop a means to escape the earths gravitational pull. So assume the chances of alien life doing the same are similar, 1 in 3.5 billion. That still hundreds of billions of planets with intelligent life.

Chances of alien life visiting earth... Consider the possible, relatively few intelligent species, consider the utilisation of that intelligence, consider the number of suns, consider the distances involved. Unless visiting alien life has developed transport far in advance of ours using technology unknown to us, and has an exploring bent to that intelligence, the chances of aliens visiting earth are pretty slim.

But...

 

[columbus]

I also give it a high probability. Certainly for the oldest most advanced civilization/species type.

Maybe they prefer a planet with more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and higher levels of background radiation. So, a few thousand years ago they set us on the path to global warming and nuclear war. We are the alien equivalent of "terraforming" and they just stop by occasionally to check on our progress.

Tom

 

[Corvus]

The only person I know who has actually witnessed a UFO, allegedly, was my mother, returning home across fields in the early hours near Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire, UK after a fall out with my father. She recounted to me, only once, when a bit drunk, that she saw a vast black triangle bigger than a large soccer/football pitch, that hovered soundlessly above the treeline, at one point the UFO flew directly above her, moving at walking pace. It also produced beams of intense light which were employed like searchlights on the ground. However she was emotionally distressed and carrying me as a baby, so one has to take those facts into consideration. I do believe that she experienced something. However I am skeptical that she didn't just see a prototype aircraft, since there are many RAF bases in that area. Still, because she said the experience was one of the pivotal things that turned her to the Christian faith, I really have no idea what she saw or thought she saw. I did press her at the time for more details about the event, but she refused to talk about it anymore and the conversation ended, I have never mentioned it to her since.

 

[Corvus]

We are the alien equivalent of "terraforming" and they just stop by occasionally to check on our progress.

We waste so much resources human lives and time on conflict and competition. If I was an alien captain of an exploration vessel, I would report that Earthlings have a lot of evolving left to do before we shake hands. If humans can't get along with each other, what chance do myriad alien life forms stand?

 

[Skwim]

The chances of alien life existing in this universe are very high, consider the size, at least a hundred billion galaxies made of around 200 billion stars or more. By current findings, many with solar systems. If only, say, 0.0000000000001% of them have life sustaining planets that's thousands of billions of planets containing life.

The chances of alien life on any of these planets developing intelligence. Of the roughly 3 or 4 billion species that have exited on earth only one has yet gained the intelligence to develop a means to escape the earths gravitational pull. So assume the chances of alien life doing the same are similar, 1 in 3.5 billion. That still hundreds of billions of planets with intelligent life.

Chances of alien life visiting earth... Consider the possible, relatively few intelligent species, consider the utilisation of that intelligence, consider the number of suns, consider the distances involved. Unless visiting alien life has developed transport far in advance of ours using technology unknown to us, and has an exploring bent to that intelligence, the chances of aliens visiting earth are pretty slim.

But...

Ever hear of the Drake Equation?

The Drake equation is a probabilistic argument used to arrive at an estimate of the number of active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy. The number of such civilizations, N, is assumed to be equal to the mathematical product of

1. R∗, the average rate of star formation, in our galaxy,
2. fp, the fraction of formed stars, that have planets,
3. ne for stars that have planets, the average number of planets that can potentially support life,
4. fl, the fraction of those planets, that actually develop life,
5. fi, the fraction of planets bearing life on which intelligent, civilized life, has developed,
6. fc, the fraction of these civilizations that have developed communications, i.e., technologies that release detectable signs into space, and
7. L, the length of time, over which such civilizations release detectable signals,

for a combined expression of:

N = R ∗ ⋅ f p ⋅ n e ⋅ f l ⋅ f i ⋅ f c ⋅ L {\displaystyle N=R_{*}\cdot f_{\mathrm {p} }\cdot n_{\mathrm {e} }\cdot f_{\mathrm {l} }\cdot f_{\mathrm {i} }\cdot f_{\mathrm {c} }\cdot L}

Source: Wikipedia
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Of course the answer (N) depends on the figures one plugs into each factor. One example given in the Wikipedia article comes up with N = 156,000,000. There are 156 million active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy.

.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The larger moons of Jupiter, Ganymede and Europa, possess liquid water sub crust oceans. Which is promising.

I'm looking forward to that. Hopefully, if I live long enough to see that. I suspect that's where we will discover the first signs of life on other planets. Bodies of liquid water. Saturn's Titan is interesting too in light of its active weather and geological similarities comparable with primitive earth and provides another possibility that there may be lifeforms that are not dependent upon an oxygen and nitrogen atmosphere.

 

[Corvus]

Saturn's Titan is interesting too in light of its active weather and geological similarities comparable with primitive earth and provides another possibility that there may be lifeforms that are not dependent upon an oxygen and nitrogen atmosphere.

Indeed, although the low temperature of Titan may preclude the chemical reactions and pathways necessary to sustain life, secondly Titan lacks a polar solvent, such as water or liquid ammonia, which might also preclude life as we know it. Might being the operative word.


Also, for the first organisms on this planet, oxygen was a lethal corrosive waste gas. The ancestors of Animals & Fungi and their Mitrochondria in particular, 'learned' (evolved the capacity) how to use oxygen to liberate chemically bound energy from hydrocarbon sources, generating C02 and H20 in the process.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

No not a Raelian. In fact I had to look it up, although I have heard the name before, and seen their symbols before.
I have given the matter (UFOs) some thought, it's a subject I am keenly interested in, since it is interconnected with cosmology.

I'd say it is clear this is a subject you have given a little more than "some thought" but thanks for the honesty. I replied to this thread with a video that outlined some "hard to dismiss" testimony, but I remain a sceptic. It is not because I am "afraid" of such notions, who wouldn't want to meet an advanced alien species? My sister's dog is pretty happy to see me when I turn up at her house (though it might be because he knows it is walkies time! ).

I'll remain sceptical until there is more evidence beyond the anecdotal. There is a world of anecdotal evidence that points to miracles, ghosts, OOBE, NDE, alien lifeform activity and so on. My video clip included "scientific" evidence in the form of radar images, but it still remains a big fat question mark, too many inferences and assumptions to say otherwise. Hope you appreciate my position.

 

[Corvus]

Hope you appreciate my position.

I share your position. On the subject of visitation. I think it is possible although (given the distances) unlikely, certainly not proven in any sense of the word.

 

[Corvus]

I'd say it is clear this is a subject you have given a little more than "some thought" but thanks for the honesty.

It's a subject that has always fascinated me. Visiting other worlds and studying their life forms, is something I would love to do myself.

 

[George-ananda]

Ever hear of the Drake Equation?

​

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I'm beginning to think these Drake equation type people wouldn't recognize alien evidence if it bit them in the nose.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

It's a subject that has always fascinated me. Visiting other worlds and studying their life forms, is something I would love to do myself.

Damn right, with you there, if the technology allowed it and they wanted volunteers to explore new worlds you would have a fight on your hands! You are talking to someone who follows the Curiosity Rover on Twitter!

 

[Corvus]

Damn right, with you there, if the technology allowed it and they wanted volunteers to explore new worlds you would have a fight on your hands! You are talking to someone who follows the Curiosity Rover on Twitter!

When I was little, I used to seriously believe I would simply make my own fully functional spaceship. Bless. Maybe one day....