Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus

[Rational Agnostic]

You Quoted ----> Matthew 16:27-28: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

But you have not explain exactly who death is nor given what is the name of Death ?
Your sure are having a hard time in understanding Prophecy.

Your great at giving things, but do not explain the simplest things in Prophecy
Such as who is Death, What is Death's name.

You're not making any sense...

 

[Rational Agnostic]

The only thing that is failed, Is you having no understanding anything about Prophecy.

And yet you have no rebuttal, other than asking me what "death's name" is, or something to that effect, which makes no sense at all. Clearly these were predictions that the Apocalypse would occur within Jesus' disciples' lifetimes.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You're not making any sense...

Well it's quite obvious,

Matthew 10:21---"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death"

So who exactly is Death, What is the name of Death ?

And what point and time shall brother (deliver) up brother to (death )
When does this all take place and who exactly is Death ?

 

[Faithofchristian]

And yet you have no rebuttal, other than asking me what "death's name" is, or something to that effect, which makes no sense at all. Clearly these were predictions that the Apocalypse would occur within Jesus' disciples' lifetimes.

It makes alot of sense if you know what the Bible Confirms who death is and what his name is.
And when this all takes place.

Can you explain exactly who is Death and what is his name according to the Bible.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

It makes alot of sense if you know what the Bible Confirms who death is and what his name is.
And when this all takes place.

Can you explain exactly who is Death and what is his name according to the Bible.

You tell me.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You tell me.

Why should I tell you, when you claim to know it all about the Bible.

So do tell, Who is Death and is his name.

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Matthew 10:21

Note that Jesus did say
( And the brother shall ( deliver ) up the brother
So at point and time does this take place,
According to the book of Revelation.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You didn't even acknowledge my original post, and instead just directed me to a Jehovah's Witness site. Lolol

One of the “supposed” failed prophecies you quoted referenced Israel. Your failure to answer my questions regarding the Bible’s use of the term ‘Israel’ reveals that you don’t know the answers.

Do you think think that is wise or foolish, to critique a document that you don’t understand?

As highlighted at Luke 10:21, it’s truths are hidden from people having an arrogant mindset (who really don’t want to know)....purposefully hidden.

Guess what? It works!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Why should I tell you, when you claim to know it all about the Bible.

So do tell, Who is Death and is his name.

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Matthew 10:21

Note that Jesus did say
( And the brother shall ( deliver ) up the brother
So at point and time does this take place,
According to the book of Revelation.

I’m sorry, but I don’t know what you mean either.

 

[MJFlores]

Most Christians believe in the Second Coming of Jesus (along with a final "Judgment Day"), yet very few of them seem to be aware that this second coming and judgment was explicitly prophesied by the gospels to occur within the lifetimes of Jesus' disciples. Here are a few of the verses that contain this failed prophecy. After the verses, I will delve a bit deeper into the attempts made by Christian apologists to explain away these verses, and illustrate why these rationalizations clearly fail upon further examination.

Matthew 10:21-23: "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Comments: Christian apologists are fond of making the erroneous claim that verse 23 is a reference to the coming of Jesus after his alleged resurrection as in the later chapters of the gospels. But what they fail to acknowledge is that the references to brothers betraying each other, parents and children betraying each other, and being hated for being followers of Jesus are found in Mark 13, a chapter that is clearly a reference to the "last days," indicating that the prophecy in verse 23 is in fact a reference to the final judgment, or Second Coming of Jesus. In fact, the words used in Matthew 10:21-22 are essentially identical to those found in Mark chapter 13 (a chapter which refers to the final Judgment), removing all doubts that this is in fact a prophecy about Jesus' final return.

Matthew 16:27-28: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Comments: Some Christian apologists make the error of attempting to explain the obviously failed prophecy in verse 28 by claiming that it refers to the "Transfiguration" event described in the following chapter. But, clearly, as can be seen when reading verse 28 in the context of verse 27, this prophecy is a reference to the second coming of Jesus, also known as Judgment Day, as is evident from the reference to "angels" (no angels are mentioned in the transfiguration chapter), and the allusion to judgment where Jesus will "reward each person according to what they have done." So, it's clear that these verses were also a prophecy that the final judgment would occur within Jesus' disciples lifetimes.

Luke 21:29-32: "He told them this parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
Comments: Some Christian apologists attempt to argue that "this generation" is a reference to some future generation that is alive at the time of Jesus' return. But, again, when examining the context of the verse, we again learn that this is incorrect. Jesus is speaking to his disciples privately during this conversation, and refers to them using the second person pronoun "you" stating "When you see these things....." Clearly, Jesus is telling his disciples that they will be witnesses to the end times, and that their generation will not pass away until all of the signs have occurred, again mirroring the similar language found in the aforementioned erroneous prophecies.

So, if you are being intellectually honest, you can now clearly see that these are failed prophecies. Even C.S. Lewis, a renowned Christian apologist, referred to these verses as being the most embarrassing verses in the bible, and admitted that they are clearly erroneous prophecies. Most of the time, when discussing these verses with Christians, and explaining the context of them, and why they clearly fail, the typical initial reaction is that of anger toward me, indicating that some degree of cognitive dissonance has set in. I understand it's upsetting to realize that a book you previously thought was infallible clearly contains errors, but it's important to acknowledge this if you honestly care about whether your beliefs are true or not.

You have an interesting case for discussion but before I could generously add my inputs on these matters, I would like to add that "Christianity" is divided between 30,000-40,000 church organizations [ How many christian denominations worldwide? ], each of them having different beliefs, doctrines and interpretations of things. Hence C.S. Lewis, the renowned Christian apologist could not represent nor could be a spokesman to represent these different church organizations. The Mormons would see prophecies in a different way, the Seventh Day Adventist have their own interpretations, The Jehovah's Witnesses would have their predictions so forth and so on.

Are the prophecies written in the Bible, fulfilled or failed? I personally would say most of them were fulfilled while the others are still awaiting their fulfillment. Let us disregard the well renowned apologists best selling books or the pastors who demanded their church members to pay for their $75M Lear jets.

What references should we use then? Just two {2) - the Bible and Historical Facts. But before I begin, I would like to impart an important verse about prophecies mentioned in the Bible:

2 Peter 1:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.

According to the Bible - the prophetic message is completely reliable.
Akin to a light waiting for morning to reveal itself.
And that such message came from the prophet without it's interpretation.
What is written in the Bible, we have to compare such with Historical events.

Your mentioned verses:

Matthew 10:21-23: "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

History:
The first persecution of Christians organised by the Roman government took place under the emperor Nero in 64 AD after the Great Fire of Rome. With the passage in 313 AD of the Edict of Milan, persecution of Christians by the Roman state ceased.

Fulfilled.

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. - The evangelical mission in spreading the true words of God continues and it will not be finished spreading through the towns of Israel even before the Son of Man comes. The end will happen but most of the towns of Israel would not hear the true words of God written in the Bible. However it is written in the Bible:

Matthew 24:14 New International Version (NIV)
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.


I would continue on Matthew 16:27-28 and Luke 21:29-32, possible tomorrow as my availability would allow. But for now I would like to have the above mentioned verses simmer and marinate for your perusal.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have an interesting case for discussion but before I could generously add my inputs on these matters, I would like to add that "Christianity" is divided between 30,000-40,000 church organizations [ How many christian denominations worldwide? ], each of them having different beliefs, doctrines and interpretations of things. Hence C.S. Lewis, the renowned Christian apologist could not represent nor could be a spokesman to represent these different church organizations. The Mormons would see prophecies in a different way, the Seventh Day Adventist have their own interpretations, The Jehovah's Witnesses would have their predictions so forth and so on.

Are the prophecies written in the Bible, fulfilled or failed? I personally would say most of them were fulfilled while the others are still awaiting their fulfillment. Let us disregard the well renowned apologists best selling books or the pastors who demanded their church members to pay for their $75M Lear jets.

What references should we use then? Just two {2) - the Bible and Historical Facts. But before I begin, I would like to impart an important verse about prophecies mentioned in the Bible:

2 Peter 1:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.

According to the Bible - the prophetic message is completely reliable.
Akin to a light waiting for morning to reveal itself.
And that such message came from the prophet without it's interpretation.
What is written in the Bible, we have to compare such with Historical events.

Your mentioned verses:

Matthew 10:21-23: "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

History:
The first persecution of Christians organised by the Roman government took place under the emperor Nero in 64 AD after the Great Fire of Rome. With the passage in 313 AD of the Edict of Milan, persecution of Christians by the Roman state ceased.
View attachment 22289

Fulfilled.

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. - The evangelical mission in spreading the true words of God continues and it will not be finished spreading through the towns of Israel even before the Son of Man comes. The end will happen but most of the towns of Israel would not hear the true words of God written in the Bible. However it is written in the Bible:

Matthew 24:14 New International Version (NIV)
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.


I would continue on Matthew 16:27-28 and Luke 21:29-32, possible tomorrow as my availability would allow. But for now I would like to have the above mentioned verses simmer and marinate for your perusal.

Nope, even your reinterpretation failed since you put the fulfillment date at 313 CE and it is a dead certainty that no one alive at the time of the prophecy lived past 150 CE. You forgot that the prophecy had a "use by" stamp on it.

 

[MJFlores]

Nope, even your reinterpretation failed since you put the fulfillment date at 313 CE and it is a dead certainty that no one alive at the time of the prophecy lived past 150 CE. You forgot that the prophecy had a "use by" stamp on it.

The particular and first targeted mentioned verses:

Matthew 10:21-23: "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

We have no "use by" stamp on Matthew 10:21-23. Further reading prior to verse 21 would provide the whole context on the matter.


Matthew 10:1-23 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

“Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. As you enter the home, give it your greeting. If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Martyrdom of the Apostles

Matthew 10:1-23 are outlined as follows:

1. The Lord Jesus Christ commissioning of the apostles
2. The names of the first twelve apostles
3. The scope and area of the apostles' commissioning
4. The instructions of the Lord Jesus Christ to them
5. The dangers foretold by the Lord Jesus Christ to them
6. That their mission will not be completed even before the Son of Man comes

We could not read any expiration date, use before date, best served before date on Matt 10:1-23. Maybe [just maybe] let us look at the other messages or verses presupposing a failed prophecy.

Thank you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The particular and first targeted mentioned verses:

Matthew 10:21-23: "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

View attachment 22294

We have no "use by" stamp on Matthew 10:21-23. Further reading prior to verse 21 would provide the whole context on the matter.


Matthew 10:1-23 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

“Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. As you enter the home, give it your greeting. If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Martyrdom of the Apostles

Matthew 10:1-23 are outlined as follows:

1. The Lord Jesus Christ commissioning of the apostles
2. The names of the first twelve apostles
3. The scope and area of the apostles' commissioning
4. The instructions of the Lord Jesus Christ to them
5. The dangers foretold by the Lord Jesus Christ to them
6. That their mission will not be completed even before the Son of Man comes

We could not read any expiration date, use before date, best served before date on Matt 10:1-23. Maybe [just maybe] let us look at the other messages or verses presupposing a failed prophecy.

Thank you.

The failed prophecy under discussion was that of Matthew 16 27-28.

 

[MJFlores]

Now to fulfill the promise, I made yesterday:

"I would continue on Matthew 16:27-28 and Luke 21:29-32, possible tomorrow as my availability would allow. But for now I would like to have the above mentioned verses simmer and marinate for your perusal."

The failed prophecy under discussion was that of Matthew 16 27-28.

Let us examine the verses in question:

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

To whom was the Lord Jesus Christ speaking? If we move up to verse 24 we would see who he was talking to.

Matthew 16:24-28 New International Version (NIV)
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Where is the kingdom of the Son of Man, the Lord Jesus Christ?

John 18:36 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

So the kingdom of the Son of Man is not of this world and is from another place. Without doubt that would be heaven.

John 1:51 New International Version (NIV)
He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man.”

Was it fulfilled?

Acts 1:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

But when the Lord Jesus Christ said - “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. Who tasted death among the Lord's disciples?

Luke 21:29-32 to follow

 

[Subduction Zone]

Now to fulfill the promise, I made yesterday:

"I would continue on Matthew 16:27-28 and Luke 21:29-32, possible tomorrow as my availability would allow. But for now I would like to have the above mentioned verses simmer and marinate for your perusal."



Let us examine the verses in question:

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

To whom was the Lord Jesus Christ speaking? If we move up to verse 24 we would see who he was talking to.

Matthew 16:24-28 New International Version (NIV)
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Where is the kingdom of the Son of Man, the Lord Jesus Christ?

John 18:36 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

So the kingdom of the Son of Man is not of this world and is from another place. Without doubt that would be heaven.

John 1:51 New International Version (NIV)
He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man.”

Was it fulfilled?

Acts 1:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

View attachment 22296

But when the Lord Jesus Christ said - “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. Who tasted death among the Lord's disciples?

View attachment 22297

Luke 21:29-32 to follow

I will deal with this reinterpretation when I get back home. The desperation of some Christians is amazing.

 

[MJFlores]

I will deal with this reinterpretation when I get back home. The desperation of some Christians is amazing.

Desperation? I beg to disagree.

The things are written and it is up for the true Christians to bring about amazing things. It is not my opinions on the matter but it is the Lord's work to bring things in the light.

John 8:12 English Standard Version (ESV)
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Luke 21:29-32 to follow

 

[Subduction Zone]

Desperation? I beg to disagree.

The things are written and it is up for the true Christians to bring about amazing things. It is not my opinions on the matter but it is the Lord's work to bring things in the light.

John 8:12 English Standard Version (ESV)
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Luke 21:29-32 to follow

A Christian that was not desperate would own up to the failures of the Bible.

 

[MJFlores]

A Christian that was not desperate would own up to the failures of the Bible.

An atheist would be doing that and most likely a false Christian too.

I have read Luke 21:29-32 but I have moved up the verses from 5-32 so we could see the whole picture. Reading 29-32 is insufficient to view the whole context. It would be like watching the ending without the whole scene thus spoiling the fun. So here it goes, I have inserted my comments in [blue] and some pictures / references:

Luke 21:5-32 New International Version (NIV)
Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”

Second Temple - Wikipedia

“Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”

Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

“But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. And so you will bear testimony to me. But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. Everyone will hate you because of me. But not a hair of your head will perish. Stand firm, and you will win life.

Martyrdom of the Apostles

“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

In 66 CE the Jewish population rebelled against the Roman Empire. Four years later, in 70 CE, Roman legions under Titus retook and destroyed much of Jerusalem and the Second Temple.

“There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

This has yet to happen, in the Second Advent of our Lord Jesus Christ and does not pertain to the time of the apostles. It will happen in the near future at the time the Son of Man would come in a cloud with power and great glory.

He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

The destruction of Jerusalem as foretold by the Lord Jesus Christ [40? years before it actually happened] was fulfilled during the apostles' timeline and the generation whom the Lord Jesus pertains to.

The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD

Conclusion: The prophecies of the Lord Jesus Christ were true, fulfilled and will be fulfilled in the future. The prophecies are not over but will see their light of day.

2 Peter 1:19-21 New International Version (NIV)
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

An atheist would be doing that and most likely a false Christian too.

I am sorry but you are in no position to call another Christian a "false Christian". If a Christians is supposed to be honest about his translations of the Bible those Christians may be able to make that claim about you.

I have read Luke 21:29-32 but I have moved up the verses from 5-32 so we could see the whole picture. Reading 29-32 is insufficient to view the whole context. It would be like watching the ending without the whole scene thus spoiling the fun. So here it goes, I have inserted my comments in [blue] and some pictures / references:

Luke 21:5-32 New International Version (NIV)
Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”

Second Temple - Wikipedia

“Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”

Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

“But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. And so you will bear testimony to me. But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. Everyone will hate you because of me. But not a hair of your head will perish. Stand firm, and you will win life.

Martyrdom of the Apostles

Oops, have to stop you right here. Your poor choice of websites should have tipped you off. It is thought that many of the stories of the martyrdom of the apostles was mythical as well. Even Christian sites admit this. There is no reliable evidence for the martyrdom of the apostles. Meanwhile more reliable sources say they may be mostly mythical:


These 12 Men Shaped Christianity—But Were They Real?

I am not going to bother with the rest of this. If you want to debate then you need to do so properly. Do you know how to do that? One point at a time with reliable sources.

And let's try to keep the Green ink to a minimum. Do you think you can do that?

 

[MJFlores]

I am sorry but you are in no position to call another Christian a "false Christian". If a Christians is supposed to be honest about his translations of the Bible those Christians may be able to make that claim about you.



Oops, have to stop you right here. Your poor choice of websites should have tipped you off. It is thought that many of the stories of the martyrdom of the apostles was mythical as well. Even Christian sites admit this. There is no reliable evidence for the martyrdom of the apostles. Meanwhile more reliable sources say they may be mostly mythical:


These 12 Men Shaped Christianity—But Were They Real?

I am not going to bother with the rest of this. If you want to debate then you need to do so properly. Do you know how to do that? One point at a time with reliable sources.

And let's try to keep the Green ink to a minimum. Do you think you can do that?

How can we possibly do that? The topic is entitled:
Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus

Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

Deistically Inclined Agnostic

To dispute or uphold this claim, we really have to look at the New Testament [NT] Bible, shouldn't we?

With regards to the National Geographic "These 12 Men Shaped Christianity—But Were They Real?" - I believe that would be another topic. Not to mention, the contents is more of the arts and paintings in correlation with Catholic dogmas [which I do not subscribe].

On the 3 quoted verses namely: Matthew 10:21-23:/ Matthew 16:27-28 and [URL='https://www.religiousforums.com/bible/luke/21:29-32/']Luke 21:29-32 [/URL]were fully replied to from permalink #29 to #37.

If there are other alleged Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus which people would like to raise, I would be happy to oblige.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How can we possibly do that? The topic is entitled:
Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus

Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

Deistically Inclined Agnostic

To dispute or uphold this claim, we really have to look at the New Testament [NT] Bible, shouldn't we?

With regards to the National Geographic "These 12 Men Shaped Christianity—But Were They Real?" - I believe that would be another topic. Not to mention, the contents is more of the arts and paintings in correlation with Catholic dogmas [which I do not subscribe].

On the 3 quoted verses namely: Matthew 10:21-23:/ Matthew 16:27-28 and Luke 21:29-32 were fully replied to from permalink #29 to #37.

If there are other alleged Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus which people would like to raise, I would be happy to oblige.

I asked if you could debate honestly and properly and you don't think that you can?

Well at least you admit that.